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#1 Getrugged

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:25 PM

Okay, so i posted this in the "fix hunters" thread, but i wanted a list so that its neat and concise. Everyone can add to and discuss constructively on the changes that we absolutely need to move up from our 2% representation and we would be non-existant if we couldnt ride on the backs of DK/Warrior + Shaman to carry us. We could be replaced by literally any class in that combination and they'd be far better off. It's pathetic. So anyway, let me start...

We NEED:

- Our max range back. (4 yards more than casters it should be)

- We need our MS workable again (either needs passive application or actually be worth casting...)

- Focus sucks but its here to stay sadly, so we need a more reliable way to actually punish  someone. Doing Chimera + Arcane then Steadying for 8 seconds over and over again is just stupid and an even dumber mechanic than old school ret "dps" mechanics I.e hitting whats lit up.

- Steady Shot needs to do FAR more damage. (obvious)

- A talent that increases critical strike chance would be much appreciated too, because lets face it, if we dont crit we dont do ANY damage at all. If we do crit, our damage is still bad but "okay enough" to be able to get a kill with your partners.

- Kill Shot needs a big damage buff. Remove the glyph allowing double Kill Shot for all i care, but it needs a major damage buff. It hits for more at lvl 80 than it does now (and so did steady for that matter)...

- Baseline fel dom for our pets (Locks have it, DKs have it, but only BM has it (8 min cooldown for them too...)...aren't we supposed to be the pet class?

- Freezing Trap to not break off 1 single HP of dmg.

- Scatter Shot to be a stun (we have 0 stuns, and itll allow scatter to be more useful other than just a absolute requirement for landing traps, with the obvious effect that we can land traps if a target has a 20 dmg ticking dot that would have otherwise broke it.

- Snakes to not apply Deadly Poison.

- Roar of Recovery (Pet Ability), it used to be 30% mana on a 3 minutes CD in wotlk. It is now 30 FOCUS over 9 seconds (WTF?) on a 3 minute CD...Buff this by increasing the focus gained greatly (i think it should be a full focus bar refill to help with our non-existant burst, and it should be instant). 5  Minute CD.

- Add a "Glyph of Freezing Trap" to remove dots (Rogues have it, Mages have it)...increases the synergy with casters which hunters MAJORLY lack atm.






There are all the bugs (Trap Resists, Silence and Tranq shot range fixed, Chimera daze effect is not working through shields, pet returning on 5k hp after calling it/rezzing it etc, etc) that need to be fixed.





All those things with put hunters in a decent and fair place. It will greatly increase the skill cap that got absolutely crushed with this horrible expansion, allow hunters to have a more versatile gamerole (increased range for kiting casters and scatter being a stun ---> also allows hunters to switch to healers, which atm is pretty much never ever). Barely any of these changes are damage increases except kill shot and steady shot, which we can all agree hits for far far FARRRRRRRRRRR too little.







Edit: Decided to do some number testing for the disbelievers.

Damage on a 3700 Resilience Ret pally: (Full geared, agility gemmed hunter. Self Buffed)

Aim Shot Shot:
Posted Image

Average Hit: 5.5k, Average Crit: 11.4k



Kill Shot:
Posted Image

Average Hit: 4.2k, Average Crit: 9.4k


Steady Shot:
Posted Image

Average Hit: 1.2k, Average Crit: 2.7k




Things To Note:
- Steady Shots average hit is 1.2k and auto shot out damages it!
- Aimed Shot, is a 3 second cast time and costs half our focus bar, and its Average Hit is a pathetic 5.5k...
- Kill Shot is supposed to be our finisher, and its average hit is 4.2k.

The numbers dont lie.

Edited by johnnybp, 20 June 2011 - 08:40 PM.

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#2 Anomious

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:39 PM

I dont play a hunter and never have, but wouldnt a "Glyph of Scatter shot" be a good idea? (Same mechanic as poly and blind), it would fix the deadly poison problem, and also allow you to play with locks without sacrificing all your cc.

#3 Getrugged

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:43 PM

View PostAnomious, on 20 June 2011 - 12:39 PM, said:

I dont play a hunter and never have, but wouldnt a "Glyph of Scatter shot" be a good idea? (Same mechanic as poly and blind), it would fix the deadly poison problem, and also allow you to play with locks without sacrificing all your cc.

it would be nice, but i think scatter being a stun and traps instead having a "glyph of freezing trap" to remove dots would be better since it would give hunters a little more versatility and give us more synergy with locks and other casters (and less with warriors and other melee....cleaves are stupid) by having a stun.
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#4 andreaswho

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 12:58 PM

View Postjohnnybp, on 20 June 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:


- A talent that increases critical strike chance would be much appreciated too, because lets face it, if we dont crit we dont do ANY damage at all. if we do crit, our damage is still bad but "ok enough" to be able to get a kill with your partners



Are you kidding me? Hunter damage is freaking op.

#5 Getrugged

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:02 PM

View Postandreaswho, on 20 June 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Hunter damage is freaking op.
7k kill shot crits, 3k steady shot CRITS (high 2-2.4 second cast time for a 3k crit...amazing), 5k arcane shot crit. the ONLY thing that hits hard is chimera shot. So we do our damage with chimera shot, and for the next 10 seconds proceed to get out passive health-regen'd

If our damage is op, what does that makes warriors, dks, ferals, 70k mage shatters, spriests, locks, rogues, hell even rets and boomkins...use your brain and think before you type. Then again, you are 1900 in as a frost dk in 2s with 180 games played and struggling in the 2300's as tsg. i retract my brain comment, because clearly there is one lacking

Edited by johnnybp, 20 June 2011 - 01:06 PM.

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#6 drmongrel

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:02 PM

View Postandreaswho, on 20 June 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Hunter damage is freaking op.

Spoiler

Edited by skalman555, 20 June 2011 - 01:04 PM.


#7 andreaswho

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:16 PM

View Postjohnnybp, on 20 June 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

7k kill shot crits, 3k steady shot CRITS (high 2-2.4 second cast time for a 3k crit...amazing), 5k arcane shot crit. the ONLY thing that hits hard is chimera shot. So we do our damage with chimera shot, and for the next 10 seconds proceed to get out passive health-regen'd

If our damage is op, what does that makes warriors, dks, ferals, 70k mage shatters, spriests, locks, rogues, hell even rets and boomkins...use your brain and think before you type. Then again, you are 1900 in as a frost dk in 2s with 180 games played and struggling in the 2300's as tsg. i retract my brain comment, because clearly there is one lacking

First off, if you can't make damage as a hunter you probally just suck.
Second off, you need to get your facts right. I'm playing as unholy in 2s with random people just for cap, and unholy in 3s since I don't like the overpowered frost spec.
So, su.

#8 Buttercore

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:24 PM

View Postandreaswho, on 20 June 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

First off, if you can't make damage as a hunter you probally just suck.
Second off, you need to get your facts right. I'm playing as unholy in 2s with random people just for cap, and unholy in 3s since I don't like the overpowered frost spec.
So, su.

well well, then youre stupid as hell or too bad and using this as lame excuse

On topic: I like some ideas there, especially scatter shot stun, trap fixs and glyph, but since I didnt meet hunters in arena for some time, I dont know, but you totally ignored aimed shot, you dont use it at all or what?

#9 AbeS

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:32 PM

View Postandreaswho, on 20 June 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

First off, if you can't make damage as a hunter you probally just suck.
Second off, you need to get your facts right. I'm playing as unholy in 2s with random people just for cap, and unholy in 3s since I don't like the overpowered frost spec.
So, su.

The only time a hunter can do decent dmg is when i m playing my blue geared 3K resi mage and i stand in the open without barrier and hunter got all CDs up, and even then i just blind behind a pillar and LoS his CCs off, when playing warr in 3s  i do more dmg in a charge 1 sec stun than what he does while my charge is on CD. Hunter needs buffs, if you don't agree....nvm

View PostMomohxo, on 24 May 2011 - 05:25 PM, said:

then i suggest you shut your gob when you talk to gods m8
2.9K Frost TSG hpala, clearly a god.

#10 andreaswho

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:34 PM

View PostButtercore, on 20 June 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

well well, then youre stupid as hell or too bad and using this as lame excuse

On topic: I like some ideas there, especially scatter shot stun, trap fixs and glyph, but since I didnt meet hunters in arena for some time, I dont know, but you totally ignored aimed shot, you dont use it at all or what?

Am I stupid because I use a certain spec? that dosn't make sense paal..

#11 Getrugged

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:49 PM

View Postandreaswho, on 20 June 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

First off, if you can't make damage as a hunter you probally just suck.
Second off, you need to get your facts right. I'm playing as unholy in 2s with random people just for cap, and unholy in 3s since I don't like the overpowered frost spec.
So, su.
you shouldnt even be having posting access kiddo. Save the balance talk for the men please.

Back on topic please

Edited by johnnybp, 20 June 2011 - 01:54 PM.

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:51 PM

Quote

7k kill shot crits, 3k steady shot CRITS (high 2-2.4 second cast time for a 3k crit...amazing), 5k arcane shot crit. the ONLY thing that hits hard is chimera shot.

You should go to repair your gear...

#13 JayS

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 02:44 PM

eh i think our dmg is more than fine. just need some other stuff to put us back on par.

#14 Ahlaundoh

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 02:55 PM

PLEASE remove fucking deadly poison from snakes
Posted Image
Posted Image
pve the best

#15 Getrugged

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 02:59 PM

View PostJayS, on 20 June 2011 - 02:44 PM, said:

eh i think our dmg is more than fine. just need some other stuff to put us back on par.
2% representation doesnt lie (which i bet more than 80% of that was 4.06 kfc). We deal the least damage of all the pure dps classes (war, lock, dk, rogue), with only mages doing less. But when they do hit they hit for WAY WAY WAY more and have far more utility than us. Even hybrids do way more (feral, boomkins, rets). Just because you manage to outplay your opponents and be carried by your dk/war (didnt bother to check which one of those u played with), doesnt make hunter damage in any way, shape or form fine.
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#16 Omglockzorx

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

View Postandreaswho, on 20 June 2011 - 12:58 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? Hunter damage is freaking op.
That is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, yes its true we can do a insane amount of burst damage with cds up and Aimed -> Chimera, for this to be sick burst atleast one of these abilities should crit which aimed shot usually do with the right talent, but after this we're suck with 0 focus and here comes the retarded steady shot spam. Besides its REALLY easy to avoid this, we have to hardcast aimed to land this burst, and as soon your below 80% the chances for aimed to crit is pretty low which means we will need ALOT of luck to land double crit which is the sick burst. NO ONE should whine about hunter damage you simply dont know anything about the class atm then.

- dont forget how easy it is to LoS a hunters damage man, just use the fucking pillar if your dropping low? Then again you probably faceroll TSG and arent supposed to lose any games at all?

- Ow and great post Bulrug, really great ideas couldnt agree with you more :)

Edited by Omglockzorx, 20 June 2011 - 03:06 PM.


#17 Tremblant

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:01 PM

Quote

- our max range back (4 yards more than casters it should be),
sure

Quote

- Steady needs to do FAR more damage (obvious)
yep, shift some chimera damage towards it imo so rather than a "burst shot" every 10, you're doing more passive damage

Quote

- kill shot needs a big damage buff. Remove the glyph allowing double kill shot for all i care, but it needs a major damage buff. it hit more at lvl 80 than it does now (and so did steady for that matter)...
afaik, hits for around 6-9k, should do 12-15k

Quote

- Baseline fel dom for our pets (locks have it, dks have it, but only BM has it (8 min cooldown for them too.....)......arent we supposed to be the pet class???
high focus requirement, decent cooldown (75/100? with a 2-3 min cd)

Quote

- Freezing trap to not break off 1 single hp of dmg
nope(need to actually get rid of other things similar to this, bring some thought into cc please!)

Quote

- snakes to not apply deadly poison
yep

Quote

- Roar of Recovery (pet ability), it used to be 30% mana on a 3 min cd in wotlk. It is now 30 FOCUS over 9 seconds (WTF???) on a 3 minute cooldown.....buff this by increasing the focus gained greatly (i think it should be a full focus bar refill to help with our non-existant burst, and it should be instant). 5 minute cd.
pretty good change

Quote

- add a "glyph of freezing trap" to remove dots (rogues have it, mages have it)...increases synergy with casters which hunters MAJORLY lack atm
see above

#18 Adamite2k

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:03 PM

View PostTremblant, on 20 June 2011 - 03:01 PM, said:



nope(need to actually get rid of other things similar to this, bring some thought into cc please!)


How is scatter trap not bringing thought to cc?

Edited by Adamite2k, 20 June 2011 - 03:04 PM.


#19 Tremblant

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:07 PM

You missed the point completely, he was referring to freezing trap breaking off 1 damage. CC's are extremely potent already and should require some thought(hey this guy has full dots, let me wait to blind/poly etc.) Scatter could easily be reworked to break off some damage or changed like he suggested into a stun(pretty impartial to this).

Ah I see the edit now, once again, cc shouldn't be sure thing in regards to glyphs removing dots on the target. I could see scatter removing dots has the trap at least a travel time, but longer duration cc's shouldn't get the same benefit.

Edited by Tremblant, 20 June 2011 - 03:10 PM.


#20 Garxz

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:16 PM

Minor glyph to remove deadly poison snake, bring back Eyes of the Beast, merge hawk and fox, OR just let us cast while moving, rework our ress pet system to actually be doabloe or on line with warlocks, (change MM to do more dmg with steady and reduce a bit on chimera shot?) give kill command bigger range, remove freezting and ice trap from same cd but maybe make the duration / size a bit lower etcetc, and i think it would be better to remove dot removers from other classes instead of getting it ourselves.

Ktpearie said:

For the record, you all have my utmost sympathy.  All of you who are still playing hunter are fucking superhuman.




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