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Offensive CD's with significant drawbacks?


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#1 Devanox

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 05:39 PM

I've been mulling this around in my head for a while now. Before I go into detail why I think this would improve the arena meta game significantly, I propose some questions for you guys to answer:

- Do you think implementing drawbacks to every offensive CD is a good idea to further improve the arena meta-game? If so, why?

- Considering that drawbacks were to be added to all offensive CD's, would it completely break PvE? What would be the fine line in allowing this change to go through without hurting the main emphasis of WoW?

Now on to the opinionated stuff:

     From what I can see, Recklessness (outside of the damage warriors can already do without it) is a very well designed offensive CD. It holds its own risks and benefits while promoting smart play from the warrior's PoV. I have seen warriors pop reck at inopportune times and seen them utterly blown up by a smart counter-offensive from the enemy team. With this sort of Pro's-and-Con's type CD in the game, I feel as if most offensive CD's should receive this sort of treatment to promote smart game play in arena matches.

Some examples of certain abilities with added drawbacks: (Some of my ideas are probably completely horrible, but it is mostly to give you guys an idea of what I am proposing)

-Warlock-

Demon Soul: http://www.wowhead.c...7801/demon-soul
Change: Pet becomes increasingly vulnerable to attack during the duration.

-Shadow Priest-

Dark Archangel: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=87151
Change: For the duration, the Shadow Priest may not benefit from masochism or any other mana-return abilities.

-Hunter-
Rapid Fire: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=3045
Change: Hunter movement speed slowed for duration of RF by 20%.

-Mage-
Icy Veins: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=12472
Change: While affected by Icy Veins, your Frostbolts hit for 15% less damage.

Thanks in advance for any smart replies. Also, come up with your own ideas and add them if you wish.
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#2 Swiftful

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 05:56 PM

Totally agree..a whole bunch of offensive CDs must have drawbacks.

-Death Knight-
Pillar of Frost: http://www.wowhead.com/spell=51271
Change: Cannot be used while Icebound Fortitude is active & vice versa.

EDIT: This is obviously a PvP change. "Look guys, I'm going to pop IBF & AMS + Every offensive trinket / ability & sit on this target cuz I'm literally unstoppable by all means."

Edited by Swiftful, 19 May 2011 - 06:00 PM.

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#3 Tw1zle

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:04 PM

OR

what they shud do is remove the glyph and just implement the glyph into pof, this would make pof alot less op and require some thinking on the dk's part

Ams could reduce all rp generation to 0 tho that wud make for a interesting change

#4 Swiftful

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Posted 19 May 2011 - 07:48 PM

View PostTw1zle, on 19 May 2011 - 07:04 PM, said:

OR

what they shud do is remove the glyph and just implement the glyph into pof, this would make pof alot less op and require some thinking on the dk's part

Ams could reduce all rp generation to 0 tho that wud make for a interesting change
This could work for sure, cuz being unstoppable with IBF / AMS is retarded.
Season 8 Summary: If you saw Flame Shock & Immolate on yourself for more than 2 seconds, the next thing you should see would be a -15.

#5 Manakuski

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 06:06 PM

Well the only thing you can do is imp hamstring them.

Also when you pop reck/reta it's stupid that you can't pop shield wall for a very long time :(

#6 Jackellekcaj

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 05:13 AM

the mage one seems like it would kill the reason for using it =/

#7 IceFoxx

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 05:54 AM

yea dude
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#8 kravnos

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:53 PM

ya nerf those 1% rep hunters lol wut?

#9 cyrfer

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:07 PM

View PostQtpoo, on 31 May 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

ya nerf those 1% rep hunters lol wut?
you won a washing machine for missing the point.

View PostGLopez, on 19 March 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

I have never trolled in my life.

#10 Devanox

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:43 PM

View PostJackellekcaj, on 31 May 2011 - 05:13 AM, said:

the mage one seems like it would kill the reason for using it =/

That's not really the point though. The point is to have some sort of drawback to having the ability to cast significantly faster FB's. I did also say most of my suggestions were completely horrible, it's the idea that counts.

:)
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#11 phishy

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Posted 02 June 2011 - 06:22 PM

drawbacks to offensive cds should be less defense. drawbacks to defensive cds should be less offense. good post tho

ex: icy veins - cannot recast barrier for duration
ex: combat readiness - reduction in energy regen

there are lots of ways to fine/tune abilities like this, but its a good rule of thumb

#12 allana

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 11:29 AM

The general idea is indeed very good. A good example of another drawback is Lay on Hands. If you use it, the player cannot be Bopped or Divine Shielded for a minute.
“As you think, you shall become.” -Pook

#13 brosearch

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Posted 03 June 2011 - 03:47 PM

one thing is for sure is all immunities should come with an offensive draw back.

#14 andysc

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Posted 19 June 2011 - 06:51 PM

offensive abilities are meant to be offensive, not lets pop it and then run slowly or do less damage. It is one thing for an offensive cooldown to be used in the first 10 seconds of a game and you force cooldowns simply from raw damage, but then again reck is a longer cooldown, with an extremely beneficial offensive buff... not having that nerfed would just be dumb.

reck has a consequence for a reason, it is ridiculously good, just because it has a good and bad side doesn't mean they all need to have a punishment.

Better idea: when you use a defensive cooldown such as pain suppression, you lose 45% of your health but in turn you gain 45% damage reduction.
Or when you use desperate prayer, you gain 100% damage increase for 6 seconds.

#15 Wickedpallyx

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:02 AM

Your "better idea" just promotes zerging of healers, something Blizzard should work on getting away from.

#16 wisdomcube

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 02:11 AM

All of your drawbacks are stupid, pop a cd=take 20% more dmg

View PostLawson, on 18 February 2011 - 06:52 AM, said:

where was everyone else tonight?  3 hours of No q's followed by 3 hours of getting farmed by Adept?

#17 GranmarshalSir

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 03:01 AM

View Postandysc, on 19 June 2011 - 06:51 PM, said:

Or when you use desperate prayer, you gain 100% damage increase for 6 seconds.

Leave desperate prayer alone!!

#18 Ctuhlu

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:25 AM

As someone said, 1. offensive cooldowns should have defensive drawbacks, and 2. defensive cooldowns should have offensive drawbacks

Spells that are properly designed according to rule 1.

- Recklessness
- Starfall (breaks CC, can't travel form/bear)
- Cold Snap

Notable spells that are stupidly designed/don't have drawbacks according to rule 1:

- Shadow Dance
- Berserk
- Berserker Rage
- Pillar of Frost

Spells that are properly designed around rule 2:

- Shield Wall (no outgoing damage)
- Ice Block (no outgoing damage)
- Dispersion
- Frenzied Regeneration

Spells that are poorly designed according to rule 2 (and are the spell most in need of changes):

- AMS
- Combat Readiness
- Survival Instincts (in Cat form, probably the most underratedly stupid one)

If spells were designed around those two rules, PVP would be a lot less retarded.

Fourreur said:

we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck

#19 andysc

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 01:55 PM

cant tell if troll or srs ^

#20 Duckfloatz

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 06:52 PM

^ cant tell if retard or retard?


Dks only class that pops defensive cds and stays offensive.

IBF (breaks/prevents stuns/shieldwall)
AMS (prevents ccs/absorbs magic dmg) (also short cd for frost dks) (also dont know why spell reflect was nerfed i mean its OP since it reflects the spells but thats the benefit of the warrior timing it and the fuck up of the caster, pve nerf? ;/)



Some defensive/offensive spells should have some drawbacks some shouldnt tho. (which blizzard is already doing but they are overlooking the stupid OP ones like DKs.)


I am not picking on DKs (even tho it looks like it :X)
LoL : Duckfloatzzi
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