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Here we go again on pet scaling:


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#21 Calleking

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:04 PM

KILLING A PET SHOULD NEVER EVER BE A VIABLE STRAT FOR BEATING A TEAM!!!


Pets should have SO MUCH survivability that a team NEVER EVER can kill your pet to win a game....

PvP = PLAYER VS. PLAYER


NOT PLAYER VS. PET


Wow, that's really dumb.

Let me counter: disable pet's in arena since it's "Player vs Player"

I do agree that felhounds need slightly more armor/hp but I'm not very fond of pet's getting resilience.

Edited by Calleking, 07 May 2008 - 03:06 PM.

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#22 Zeriel

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:05 PM

KILLING A PET SHOULD NEVER EVER BE A VIABLE STRAT FOR BEATING A TEAM!!!


Pets should have SO MUCH survivability that a team NEVER EVER can kill your pet to win a game....

PvP = PLAYER VS. PLAYER


NOT PLAYER VS. PET


This is pretty dumb. If pets are unkillable, then SL/SL warlocks really have zero weaknesses.
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#23 Axin

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:12 PM

Shamans are a totem class. They lose shitload of utility without totems. Resto shamans are totem oriented healer-support class. They lose more than other healers without buffs. Nobody says totems shouldnt be killable. It shouldnt be gibbable by level 1. Thats all.

c wut i did there?


I see :) but it's still not the same thing, you know that too. Pets don't cost sub 100 mana instant cast on a 1s gcd timer. Plus as a shaman, you must love pets beating on you don't you? :D
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#24 Ahhsoul

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:13 PM

90% of warlocks to exact same with their pet to my totems. They just dont lose gcd, time , mana or attention to do it. so go QQ moar


Your response to the issue with pets is "SHAMANS SUCK TOO OK?"

Go make a Shaman thread, your tears on Warlock suggestions are irritating.
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#25 Viia

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:16 PM

This is pretty dumb. If pets are unkillable, then SL/SL warlocks really have zero weaknesses.


That's obviously the goal.
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#26 Woofles

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:29 PM

A shaman crying about felhunters, it's hard to cast water shield isn't it?

P.S. Nerf water shield.
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#27 Zeriel

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:34 PM

That's obviously the goal.


Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but to get back on topic I feel that SL/SL warlocks are actually at a balance sweet spot right now. They're strong against basically all casters, strong against 2dps teams. In 2v2, you can definitely outplay melee piling on your pet, I'd say good warrior/druid vs. good warlock/druid is 50/50 if averaged across all arena maps, not one-sided at all. They've got a bit of a weakness to cleave teams in bigger brackets right now, but a lot of that is because leaving a warlock alone lets them absolutely dominate anyone but warriors & undead rogues.
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#28 Lmkt

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 03:52 PM

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but to get back on topic I feel that SL/SL warlocks are actually at a balance sweet spot right now. They're strong against basically all casters, strong against 2dps teams. In 2v2, you can definitely outplay melee piling on your pet, I'd say good warrior/druid vs. good warlock/druid is 50/50 if averaged across all arena maps, not one-sided at all. They've got a bit of a weakness to cleave teams in bigger brackets right now, but a lot of that is because leaving a warlock alone lets them absolutely dominate anyone but warriors & undead rogues.


Lol emberstorm
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#29 Schmich

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 04:11 PM

Beginning of season 1 you had any spec -> then UA -> 27/34 -> 24/37 with felhunter (as warlocks and the pet needed more defense and leeching effect got nerfed) -> 24/37 with voidwalker -> what's next? If it wasn't for druids (aka roots & cyclone) the only times you would see warlocks would be in some weird setups.

I myself fail to see why Blizzard hasn't scaled pets more. Basic things like giving more stamina through the stats, give all the resilience, spell hit and spell penetration is just normal. It's not a game-breaking change so it can be done in no time at all.
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#30 Ultimecia

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 04:21 PM

Guys please, can we keep this civil and have some logical points backed up by proper reasoning. The idea of posting here was to get a more mature discussion going than anything likely on the WoW forums.
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#31 Zeriel

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 04:24 PM

I was trying. =(

I feel the non-felhunter pets are pretty balanced, the only tweaking I really feel that needs to be done is to make felhunters have just enough survivability that you can't just bank 70~ rage and oneshot it. Maybe some resilience, without increasing HP? Would stop the one-shots because of crit chains(because it's already hard enough for non-warriors to kill).

Oh, and uh, succubus needs like 2x the scaling of felhunter. I'm not sure anyone would use it even if it could survive, but being even easier to kill than the felhunter probably doesn't help.
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#32 Dappa

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 04:47 PM

How about they make Health Funnel instant cast like the hunter version, with the same animation and range (20yd). Health Funnel is a great spell, but with zero protection from pushback it's too easily interrupted.
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#33 Teddymonster

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 05:49 PM

Felpup:
8k hp
60% scaling for resil (300 resil)
1-2k more armor

Fair amount of buffs, yes? they would still be very killable, but it would prevent them from getting 3 shotted. Felpup dying is cool, felpup dying in 95% (and half the time in 3 seconds)of my 3v3 matches not cool. But even so, if they give us none of these buffs but gave my pup +spell hit/pen I would be happy. Besides playing badly, resisted spell locks are the #1 cause of losses.
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#34 Tutanka

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:25 PM

I'm not really sure what the issue is, warlocks over all are prety well balanced.

If they were to get some sort of buff wouldn't they rather get some sort of way to resist meele zergs?

Sure buffing their pets makes them stronger, but it doesnt really help against double or tripple meele since you would want to use VW agaisnt those teams anyway.
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#35 Axin

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:28 PM

I think that would be pretty balanced in those terms. Ofc you have to be able to kill it, no one sane denies it anyway :) Just not as easy as it is killable now. Let's just hope they address that (and they generally do whatever is said :) ).

As for cleave teams and general melee survivability, it's also something that probably isn't resolvable in the current metagame. All shifts in balance are dangerous, locks are strong in many cases, raw melee survivability could make them just godly. The propositions on vw abilities are a possible way, since vw spells are useless in a pvp environment, and he's the pet used in those MU anyway.

Edited by Axin, 07 May 2008 - 06:56 PM.

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#36 Fest

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:32 PM

Pets are an ability. They are not another player. They scale like any other ability does. A s3 warlock should not have a s1 pet. Sorry.

Some classes have abilities that don't scale at all with gear.
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#37 Tutanka

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 06:36 PM

I think that would be pretty balanced in those terms. Ofc you have to be able to kill it, no one sane denies it anyway :) Just not as easy as it is killable now. Let's just hope they address that (and they generally do whatever is said :) ).

As for cleave teams and general melee survivability, it's also something that probably isn't resolvable in the current metagame. All shifts in balance are dangerous, locks are strong in many cases, raw melee survivability could make them just godly. The propositions on vw abilities are a possible way, since vw spells are useless in a pve environment, and he's the pet used in those MU anyway.



You realize it's heavy meele teams that are keeping warlocks in check at the moment, without them Locks would spimly revert to their OP state in Season 2.

Buffing the felhunter simply makes them stronger against the teams they were already strong against, and does nothing to adress their real issue.
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#38 Axin

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:05 PM

Some classes have abilities that don't scale at all with gear.


They are rare since the pre-tbc up. Mana drains come to mind, but that's about it. Core abilities usually scale though, and I'd define pets as a core ability of locks.

You realize it's heavy meele teams that are keeping warlocks in check at the moment, without them Locks would spimly revert to their OP state in Season 2.

Buffing the felhunter simply makes them stronger against the teams they were already strong against, and does nothing to adress their real issue.


I don't think I disagreed with you on the heavy melee part? :D As for felhunter buff, nobody wants to make it unkillable, melee could still hurt it alot even if it had 300+ resilience.
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#39 Orgodemir

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:08 PM

You realize it's heavy meele teams that are keeping warlocks in check at the moment, without them Locks would spimly revert to their OP state in Season 2.

Buffing the felhunter simply makes them stronger against the teams they were already strong against, and does nothing to adress their real issue.


you are truly ignorant of the situation at hand

pets are a serious weakness in 3s and 5s and makes it stupid to play against a competent team
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#40 Fest

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Posted 07 May 2008 - 07:10 PM

I don't think I disagreed with you on the heavy melee part? :D As for felhunter buff, nobody wants to make it unkillable, melee could still hurt it alot even if it had 300+ resilience.


healer/pet class vs healer/non-pet class would be extremely imbalanced. No matter how much Blizzard wants to deny it, they take all 3 brackets into mind when balancing a class. 300 resilience on a pet is a bit much. While I do think pets should have resilience, 150 would be a more reasonable amount when talking about a s3 lock.
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