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#1 Reoz

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:16 PM

I just started to play abit on my rogue, playing rogue mage atm. And i need some advice what to do when i open on a target.

I usually open with Cheapshot or garrote, then one backstab and recuperate. After that when i get 5 combo points again i kidney shot. Really i have no idea what to do when i open on my target, what to spend my combo points on. Can somone give me some advices, like i know i should keep up recuperate all the time, but what about slice n dice etc etc?

#2 bobjob1

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:34 PM

I'd almost always open with a garrote if possible, hemo for the damage buff, recup at 5 combo points.
If you are going for the kill you can either kidney with the 5 if you need to peel, eviscerate, redirect kidney to the healer, or slice and dice to keep pressure up if you don't need to peel.
As double dps I rarely use slice and dice unless im swapping my combo points off.

Edited by bobbygravelle, 04 May 2011 - 04:35 PM.

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#3 draketai

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:38 PM

View PostReoz, on 04 May 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

I just started to play abit on my rogue, playing rogue mage atm. And i need some advice what to do when i open on a target.

I usually open with Cheapshot or garrote, then one backstab and recuperate. After that when i get 5 combo points again i kidney shot. Really i have no idea what to do when i open on my target, what to spend my combo points on. Can somone give me some advices, like i know i should keep up recuperate all the time, but what about slice n dice etc etc?
You should be smart enough to know that there is no set "rotation" in PvP...completely depends on who your facing, what their partners are in the immediate vicinity, what your partner, w/e. There is no set/definite tactic for every player when it comes to opening on somebody.

What I can tell you, is that Recuperate should basically always be up, and Slice and Dice is good to have if you have excess combo points. That's about it.

Edited by draketai, 04 May 2011 - 04:39 PM.


#4 Trikso

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:04 PM

why would you EVER open with a cheapshot when it DR's kidney and then backstab instead of hemo for the dmg buff?
2.7k nonglad Warrior commenting on RMP

View PostTezhu, on 14 March 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

overpowered

warrior reporting in

there are so many bad players at high ratings right now because they got a skill boost with 4.0.6 x.X

#5 Reoz

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:10 PM

View PostTrikso, on 04 May 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

why would you EVER open with a cheapshot when it DR's kidney and then backstab instead of hemo for the dmg buff?


Well depends on what setup, and i usually hemo after but i guess its better with hemo at start yea. As i said i just got to lvl 85 so im not that great at rogue

#6 Zeiyo

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:12 PM

never is one way to do things but i find i do this mostly

prem garrote - hem - backstab - 5point recup - backstab to 5 combo points - snd to get nice pressure up / kidney if you are going for a earlier sbomb dance to get CDs used early

Edited by Zeiyo, 04 May 2011 - 05:21 PM.


#7 Mout

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:15 PM

View PostTrikso, on 04 May 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

why would you EVER open with a cheapshot when it DR's kidney and then backstab instead of hemo for the dmg buff?

can you leave this forum please, he's asking for help

(id use that help too)

Edited by Mout, 04 May 2011 - 05:15 PM.

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#8 Reoz

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:19 PM

View PostZeiyo, on 04 May 2011 - 05:12 PM, said:

never is one way to do things but i find i do this mostly

prem garrote - hem - backstab - 5point recup - backstab to 4-5 combo points - snd to get nice pressure up, kidney if you are going for a earlier sbomb dance to get CDs used early


Alright helps alot :) Thanks

#9 Malladon

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 05:59 PM

I think people debunk CS->KS as an opener way too much. CS is cheap, good combo points, puts up find weakness and has no positional requirement. KS to follow extends your lockout, you have good energy for the kidney if you premed CS to start (just one hemo for full KS). At that point you have almost full energy, Find Weakness, and three globals for 2x BS & Eviscerate. At the opener you also most likely have your best early setup with your partner to burst (even if it's a healer) so there's plenty of time to do damage while someone else is sapped/feared/sheeped all while your main target is stunned.

#10 Vondeath

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 06:27 PM

View PostTrikso, on 04 May 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

why would you EVER open with a cheapshot when it DR's kidney and then backstab instead of hemo for the dmg buff?
Well if the target is say a holy pally running on his mount you want to keep the target in the open for your partner to get a good opener on. As carryme stated the positional requirements on Garrote are annoying if the player you are targeting has lag because even if it looks like you are behind him you won't be.

Both have their place and should be used accordingly. bottom line is they both give you Expose armor.

#11 Minte

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:08 PM

View PostTrikso, on 04 May 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

why would you EVER open with a cheapshot when it DR's kidney and then backstab instead of hemo for the dmg buff?

Opening lockdowns:

Cheap Shot(40)/5cps/Kidney Shot(0) = 7 secs of stun (40 energy)
premed2/CS4/hemo5/kidney
premed2/CS4/BS5/kidney
CS2/hemo3/BS5/kidney
CS2/BS3/BS5/kidney

Garrote(45)/5cps/Kidney Shot(0) = 4 secs of silence + 6 secs of stun (45 energy)
premed2/garr3/BS5/kidney
premed2/garr3/shiv4/hemo5/kidney
garr1/shiv2/hemo3/BS5/kidney
garr1/BS3/BS5/Kidney

Ambush()/5cps/Kidney Shot(0) = 6 secs of stun (0)
premed2/amb5/kidney
premed2/amb4/hemo5/kidney
amb3/shiv4/hemo5/kidney
amb3/bs5/kidney


Casters = garrote+kidney for 10secs lockdown @ 45 energy
Melee = CS+kidney for 7secs lockdown @ 40 energy VS Kidney for 6 secs lockdown @ 0 energy

In short, against casters and DKs sometimes, open with garrote usually. Against melee usually, while not CSing appears far superior most of the time, CS into Kidney is still extremely useful, e.g. when bombing, preventing charges/grips/stuns/gouges etc. Sometimes its good to backstab instead of hemo just to get opening pressure.  Of course, a lot of this depends on your comp, a rogue in RLS vs a rogue in RMP will open differently.

As far as premed, I almost always use it with garrote. With CS/Ambush, if I know I'm going to dance early, I'll save the premed.

#12 Dkaioshin

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 09:19 PM

Don't understand why people who are suggesting garrote openers are saying to hemo right after.
The purpose of hemo is to put up a bleed so you get the 10% damage buff.
Garrote is a bleed, so you don't need to hemo until garrote is about to fall off.
Assuming you are behind them, as you should be since you garroted, you should follow it with a backstab for more damage. Hemo is a waste of energy in that scenario.



I mainly open with garrote when possible (against anything the silence effects), but considering latency and the fact that at the start of matches a lot of people jerk off on mounts running in circles I'm forced to cheapshot more than I'd like to.


Slice n dice is good and should be kept up as much as possible when you have high up time on your target. If you're in some long fight with, say, a mage, where your up time is limited I'd use the points on eviscerate instead for the extra damage when you're actually on the target.

#13 Disdain

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 09:10 AM

While garrote openers may be alot better for you, your DR's and your "rotation", CS openers have so many positive aspects when you consider your partners - for one, if you garrote and shiv right after for crippling, there's still a delay where (if mounted, or has a partner rooting you), you might have gotten nothing nothing out of the garrote opener. on targets like locks/mages/dk's you should definitely open with garrote, but if we're going healer I usually go CS > hemo > Dance+garrote and then save the kidney for Inner Focus/Freedom/Aura Mastery/whatever. Against Druid and Shaman healers where you wanna prevent hots or ES from coming out for as long as possible you could end your dance with a second garrote and then KS right after that.

But basically alone, your best opener is usually garrote. If you're going for the best positioning of your team and your target, go for CS imo. :)

Edited by Disdain, 08 May 2011 - 09:10 AM.


#14 Joshjlol

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 10:31 PM

View PostTrikso, on 04 May 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

why would you EVER open with a cheapshot when it DR's kidney and then backstab instead of hemo for the dmg buff?
...... If say a healer is low or anything for that matter you can vanish cheap it and backstab into an evis and it will die, like maybe something is at like 30% and you cheap>bomb>backstab>evis. I do not understand why you would never want to use cheapshot rogue openers are so situational, vs like warriors and shit ill open with ambush and then hemo and 5 cp recup and then use my next 5 cp's on a slice and dice.  On a caster I'll garrote into backstab ks as garrote silence runs off and then dance it will force a trinket every time and open up switches for later in the game.  Last thing I'm going to say is a rogue's opener can force trinkets and cd's, you need to be thinking ahead of time like if I open with this and then do that etc what will they have to use and then you can get a hard switch later to something w/o trinkets/cooldowns.

#15 Klonken

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:53 AM

View PostDkaioshin, on 04 May 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

Don't understand why people who are suggesting garrote openers are saying to hemo right after.
The purpose of hemo is to put up a bleed so you get the 10% damage buff.
Garrote is a bleed, so you don't need to hemo until garrote is about to fall off.
Assuming you are behind them, as you should be since you garroted, you should follow it with a backstab for more damage. Hemo is a waste of energy in that scenario.


think that they're talking about the 30% more bleed dmg from hemo but dunno

#16 BahramY

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 09:15 PM

hemorrhage actually does respectable damage if you account for the bleed, 29 energy for close to 200% weapon damage overall plus its adding to your garrote damage a 24 sec bleed (an eternity), the ticks can crit and proc HAT and awards 1 cp.

its actually higher priority than backstab if hemo dot isnt up.

#17 dizzlez1st

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 04:32 AM

Pretty much depends between garrote/cs if its something that can cast or just melee.
Also depends if you're planning to blow much on a hard open bomb.

Hard open smokebomb:
Premed in stealth recup then @ 100% energy open cs/garrote>hemo>evis>dance>amushx2-3 and evis again all in smokebomb with ap trinket proc'd (early recup before opener so u dont have to do it during burst and get energetic recover for about 8-9s off the recup)

Opener without cds:
Premed>garrote/cs>hemo(at 5cp at this point)>recup> backstab to 5 snd> keep backstab spamming!
Try to keep snd and recup up 100% of the time but prioritize the recup.



Also cs/ks is good if you're going to swap to a rogue in dance/bomb with all ur cds, same deal with shit like wars/hunters etc..

Edited by dizzlez1st, 14 May 2011 - 06:17 PM.


#18 Helscythe

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 11:51 AM

Alot of times if I'm gna garrote into a kidney a smoke is coming out of that.. Obv. not all the time but it is something that does tend to happen.. and in those few seconds I rather use backstab then hemo for the added burst damage.. But other wise I can see how you would hemo after garroting.. Unless you were worried about mobility and had waylay idk or just shiv (35 energy for shiv still wtf)... Yeah no perfect opener.. Best thing is just to play it till you have that rogue sense for it..
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#19 Kasparaitis

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 03:07 AM

When i play with a mage i usually premed->cheapshot->hemo->recoup->dance->garotte->ambush->ambush->kidney. I only do that to anyone that is affected by garotte obviously. it's probably the best way to open on a dk cause he can't ibf the first cheap shot.  sometimes i'll smokebomb with the cheap shot but it's situational.

Edited by Kasparaitis, 27 May 2011 - 03:12 AM.





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