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Resto Shaman, serious discussion about their current state


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#1 Rueben SR_US

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 03:59 PM

It has become increasingly clear to me after running 60 games of 2550+ 3v3 this week that there may be an alarming disparity in both healing output and general defensive capabilities between resto shaman and the rest of the healers.

Without pointing fingers and flaming, it seems to require a disproportionate amount of lockout and control on a resto shaman to score a kill in comparison to any other healer due to a perceived massive healing output advantage. Even then, when such lockout is executed well, resto shaman have the best "get out of jail free" cards to get back on track such as the new Spirit Link Totem on top of the venerable tremor, grounding, wind sheer, etc.

I trust I am not alone in these feelings and I have created this thread to gather similar anecdotal and mathematical evidence in one place.

#2 Twocat

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:00 PM

Everyone knows resto is OP, what's the point of this thread? We can't make any changes, we just wait until blizzard makes a new class fotm.
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#3 Rueben SR_US

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:02 PM

The point of this thread is to gather anecdotal and mathematical evidence on the topic in one place.

That should not be considered a "pointless pursuit" on forums.

#4 Greeyo

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:04 PM

What everyone should be focused on is not that Resto Shamans are OP and need nerfs, rather other healers need to be brought up to the playing field of Resto Shamans.

#5 Entarion

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:07 PM

View PostGreeyo, on 02 May 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:

What everyone should be focused on is not that Resto Shamans are OP and need nerfs, rather other healers need to be brought up to the playing field of Resto Shamans.

Yes, every healer should render the other casters useless while also healing for 40k in a single cast while also having a 9k/3sec hot + 2k/3sec(can't recall how much riptide heals for, sorry) and also a spiritlink totem.

#6 Alysana

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:14 PM

Balance discussions are completely useless and shouldn't really belong to arenajunkies. Instead you should be discussing strategies and setups. People these days are too full of themselves and they always try to blame their loss on the opposite team having X class, being faceroll and easymode etc. instead of trying to figure out what they did wrong and how to beat the comp they faced.

Firstly, Blizzard don't read these forums - Pretty much every single change is caused by a well-thought out and reasonable post on the official forums, or proper feedback from top end players. Secondly, who are you to decide what's balanced and not? Certain classes might be extremely overpowered at your rating, but suddenly much worse at 3k.

It's extremely hard to keep every class and spec balanced at any given rating. Just look at Starcraft 2. Zerg is extremely bad in bronze league because it requires a whole lot more to be reasonable, but when you're at the level of Morrow or w/e, the race suddenly has a chance.

Believe it or not, but shamans really needed help in one way or another against gib teams, they were by far the easiest target to kill if you set up a proper switch. Kinda boggled about paladins, I guess they don't really know how to fix them without making any combination of double melee bum-rush-the-healer-teams way too strong.

Edited by Alysana, 02 May 2011 - 04:20 PM.


#7 Greeyo

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:24 PM

Alright, I need to clarify. I am not asking for homogenization. Bringing all the healers onto a level playing field does not mean that they all have the exact same abilities. Holy Pallys are by far the least viable healer atm. Not because they lack healing output, but because they are extremely susceptible to long CC chains and easy swaps. Resto Druids since 4.1 have taken a huge hit in an already below average healing output. Disc Priests are in an okay place, but lost quite a bit of utility with the offensive dispel change. Then there are resto shamans who are currently the best healer in arena at its current state. Maybe some aspects of the Shaman healing need adjustment. But I don't understand the argument that healers shouldn't have big cool downs to match the cool downs of most common arena setups. Blizzards original intention with increasing health pools was to make people use cool downs wisely and make healing smarter. Mana pools were suppose to matter, healers were proposed to have to manage their pools closely. None of these things hold true today, and I think this game has the chance to be fun again but right now it seems like we are heading in the wrong direction. But who knows how Blizzard will adjust come 4.2.

#8 Redefined

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:25 PM

View PostGreeyo, on 02 May 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:

What everyone should be focused on is not that Resto Shamans are OP and need nerfs, rather other healers need to be brought up to the playing field of Resto Shamans.


I disagree completely. Resto Shamans really do need looking at. If there were to be a "benchmark" for what healers need to be balanced around, it would be Disc Priests at the moment. Holy Paladins need a lot of help, Druids need a bit of help, and Resto Shamans need a nerf of some sort to bring everyone in line.


------------------------------

Kzrs said:

I've never seen Redefined post anything dumb. +1

View PostXandyn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

best Rogue on US

#9 rtcinema

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:29 PM

Shamans have cata
Pallys had wrath
Druids had TBC
Priests had Vanilla?

Quote

"We're losing to shitters, doesnt that make us worse than shitters?."

"No, it makes the game unbalanced."

#10 Ynxeu

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:30 PM

View PostTwocat, on 02 May 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

Everyone knows resto is OP, what's the point of this thread? We can't make any changes, we just wait until blizzard makes a new class fotm.
Frost DK
/thread

#11 skylar1

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:31 PM

View PostAlysana, on 02 May 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:

Balance discussions are completely useless and shouldn't really belong to arenajunkies. Instead you should be discussing strategies and setups. People these days are too full of themselves and they always try to blame their loss on the opposite team having X class, being faceroll and easymode etc. instead of trying to figure out what they did wrong and how to beat the comp they faced.

Firstly, Blizzard don't read these forums - Pretty much every single change is caused by a well-thought out and reasonable post on the official forums, or proper feedback from top end players. Secondly, who are you to decide what's balanced and not? Certain classes might be extremely overpowered at your rating, but suddenly much worse at 3k.

It's extremely hard to keep every class and spec balanced at any given rating. Just look at Starcraft 2. Zerg is extremely bad in bronze league because it requires a whole lot more to be reasonable, but when you're at the level of Morrow or w/e, the race suddenly has a chance.

Believe it or not, but shamans really needed help in one way or another against gib teams, they were by far the easiest target to kill if you set up a proper switch. Kinda boggled about paladins, I guess they don't really know how to fix them without making any combination of double melee bum-rush-the-healer-teams way too strong.


QFT

IMO Shaman is currently in the state healers should be - no need for nerfs, rather buff other healers.


WARBOUND BROSTORMS

#12 Baulterexlol

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:32 PM

View PostAlysana, on 02 May 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:

Balance discussions are completely useless and shouldn't really belong to arenajunkies. Instead you should be discussing strategies and setups. People these days are too full of themselves and they always try to blame their loss on the opposite team having X class, being faceroll and easymode etc. instead of trying to figure out what they did wrong and how to beat the comp they faced.

Firstly, Blizzard don't read these forums - Pretty much every single change is caused by a well-thought out and reasonable post on the official forums, or proper feedback from top end players. Secondly, who are you to decide what's balanced and not? Certain classes might be extremely overpowered at your rating, but suddenly much worse at 3k.

It's extremely hard to keep every class and spec balanced at any given rating. Just look at Starcraft 2. Zerg is extremely bad in bronze league because it requires a whole lot more to be reasonable, but when you're at the level of Morrow or w/e, the race suddenly has a chance.

Believe it or not, but shamans really needed help in one way or another against gib teams, they were by far the easiest target to kill if you set up a proper switch. Kinda boggled about paladins, I guess they don't really know how to fix them without making any combination of double melee bum-rush-the-healer-teams way too strong.



Hahahahahaha. Shamans might be killable but their teammates aren't. Besides, druids and priests die faster than shamans to any team. Trust me, I play all 3. Screw talking about pallies. They're terrible.

#13 kidcrash

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:39 PM

Games not even fun with Resto Shaman in their current state. Bring all healers to Druid level imo. Also, arguing that the game is too complicated to balance seems kind of iffy. It was obvious that Resto Shaman were OP last patch and then they buffed them. Blizzard makes poor changes to the immediate game state all the time. Maybe if they weren't totally outside of their own game they'd have made some progress towards balance after 5+ years of developing WoW

#14 Tankz

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:40 PM

View Postskylar1, on 02 May 2011 - 04:31 PM, said:

QFT

IMO Shaman is currently in the state healers should be - no need for nerfs, rather buff other healers.

yeah, buffing all healers to retardly OP Status would help.

i see.

Druids in season 4 shouldn't be nerfed either, every other healer should have been buffed to thier level!

Wait, same goes for 4.06 warriors and season 5 dk's, just buff everyone to thier level - it's obviously easier then nerfing the class itself.

durrrrrrr
wat is dis game

#15 Franky7

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:43 PM

definitely nerf shamans down to the level of the other healers

#16 Pittlesqt

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:43 PM

View PostRedefined, on 02 May 2011 - 04:25 PM, said:

I disagree completely. Resto Shamans really do need looking at. If there were to be a "benchmark" for what healers need to be balanced around, it would be Disc Priests at the moment. Holy Paladins need a lot of help, Druids need a bit of help, and Resto Shamans need a nerf of some sort to bring everyone in line.
I have a disc priest (my main) and a resto shaman alt, and I absolutely agree disc priests are well balanced while shamans are op(wish i didn't suck at my shaman) druids throughput sucks and paladins well... lol, just lol.

Edit: buff paladins and druids to the level of priests, nerf shamans to the level of priests.

/thread.

Edited by Pittlesqt, 02 May 2011 - 04:44 PM.


#17 Twocat

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:43 PM

Wish 4.2 was on the PTR so we could see what they have in store for the next seasons balance.
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#18 Redefined

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:45 PM

View Postskylar1, on 02 May 2011 - 04:31 PM, said:

QFT

IMO Shaman is currently in the state healers should be - no need for nerfs, rather buff other healers.




View PostTankz, on 02 May 2011 - 04:40 PM, said:

yeah, buffing all healers to retardly OP Status would help.

i see.

Druids in season 4 shouldn't be nerfed either, every other healer should have been buffed to thier level!

Wait, same goes for 4.06 warriors and season 5 dk's, just buff everyone to thier level - it's obviously easier then nerfing the class itself.

durrrrrrr


Pretty much put it perfectly.


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Kzrs said:

I've never seen Redefined post anything dumb. +1

View PostXandyn, on 27 May 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

best Rogue on US

#19 Greeyo

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:49 PM

View PostTankz, on 02 May 2011 - 04:40 PM, said:

yeah, buffing all healers to retardly OP Status would help.

i see.

Druids in season 4 shouldn't be nerfed either, every other healer should have been buffed to thier level!

Wait, same goes for 4.06 warriors and season 5 dk's, just buff everyone to thier level - it's obviously easier then nerfing the class itself.

durrrrrrr

Well if you feel like this should we nerf all melee down to the current state of ret pallys, and consequently, all caster dps down to the current state of ele shamans.

#20 Twocat

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:50 PM

View PostGreeyo, on 02 May 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

Well if you feel like this should we nerf all melee down to the current state of ret pallys,
that would be a net buff for enhancement, let's do it

:lol:

Edited by Twocat, 02 May 2011 - 04:51 PM.

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