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Will we be nerfed?? (Frost DK thread)


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#61 linca

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 01:59 PM

i expect a frost strike nerf imo itll be the glyph so u can only do 2 fs after u done ur dots and not 3 would nerf it by alot or they can just nerf pilar of frost
i sincerly hope they let dks as they are since they dont survive that much and putup alot of dmg just like every other classes
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#62 Darrgen

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:09 PM

i expect a frost strike nerf imo itll be the glyph so u can only do 2 fs after u done ur dots and not 3 would nerf it by alot or they can just nerf pilar of frost
i sincerly hope they let dks as they are since they dont survive that much and putup alot of dmg just like every other classes

when they nerf dks, it should come in the form of our defensive abilities. First ams should be a 1 min cooldown, and the glyph should remove 5 seconds from the cooldown instead of increasing the duration. Then I think death strike needs to be dropped to about 12% which still might be a bit high it's better than a drastic change
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#63 Kryye

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:18 PM

Death Strike will probably go the way of word of glory, 20 second CD unless you're blood.

i expect a frost strike nerf imo itll be the glyph so u can only do 2 fs after u done ur dots and not 3 would nerf it by alot or they can just nerf pilar of frost
i sincerly hope they let dks as they are since they dont survive that much and putup alot of dmg just like every other classes


Considering I just got a 64K oblit on the target dummy, but my highest frost strike was 33K, I don't think frost strike is really the big concern.

Edited by Kryye, 29 April 2011 - 02:22 PM.

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#64 Cyrus

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 02:51 PM

Death Strike will probably go the way of word of glory, 20 second CD unless you're blood.



Considering I just got a 64K oblit on the target dummy, but my highest frost strike was 33K, I don't think frost strike is really the big concern.


Why are we listing nerfs for DKs? Defensive ones especially? Frost has shit mobility, and there lies its weakness, other classes dont have to deal with it, so may be weaker defensively or offensively as a result.

Frost DKs are like this
=============== Damage
============= Utility
=========== Survivability (Arena, not 1v1)
=== Mobility


Compared to a rogue
========== Damage
=============== Utility
============ Survivability
=========== Mobility

I'm not seeing why we would be nerfed? They literally just buffed us.

Oh lets include mages for fun
=============== Damage
===============/=== Utility (its actually off the chart at this point)
=============== Survivability
=============== Mobility

Hmm yeah I'm not seeing a problem

Edited by Cyrus, 29 April 2011 - 02:53 PM.

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#65 Darrgen

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 03:18 PM

Why are we listing nerfs for DKs? Defensive ones especially? Frost has shit mobility, and there lies its weakness, other classes dont have to deal with it, so may be weaker defensively or offensively as a result.

Frost DKs are like this
=============== Damage
============= Utility
=========== Survivability (Arena, not 1v1)
=== Mobility


Compared to a rogue
========== Damage
=============== Utility
============ Survivability
=========== Mobility

I'm not seeing why we would be nerfed? They literally just buffed us.

Oh lets include mages for fun
=============== Damage
===============/=== Utility (its actually off the chart at this point)
=============== Survivability
=============== Mobility

Hmm yeah I'm not seeing a problem

Because im not going to defend something that is overpowered and our cooldowns are overpowered coupled with the cc and damage we bring.
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#66

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 04:33 PM

I'm not expecting a nerf anytime soon after testing out in PvE. Remember these buffs were made for PvE and PvE purposes only - in PvE, we don't seem to be ahead of other melee classes. warriors dominate pretty much every other melee class right now in PvE, we're now roughly at rets' level, and slightly above the middle of the pack.

Just watch most recent WoLs (ie from 27/04 and later) if you need logs.

Our AoE damage might get nerfed big time tho, it's completely ridiculous atm. but i've been expecting an AoE nerf since cata's release, so w/e

as far as utility goes, still the same PvE concerns. would have a lot too much PvE implications, especially since DK tanks aren't exactly the best tanks around.
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#67 Darrgen

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:14 PM

I'm not expecting a nerf anytime soon after testing out in PvE. Remember these buffs were made for PvE and PvE purposes only - in PvE, we don't seem to be ahead of other melee classes. warriors dominate pretty much every other melee class right now in PvE, we're now roughly at rets' level, and slightly above the middle of the pack.

Just watch most recent WoLs (ie from 27/04 and later) if you need logs.

Our AoE damage might get nerfed big time tho, it's completely ridiculous atm. but i've been expecting an AoE nerf since cata's release, so w/e

as far as utility goes, still the same PvE concerns. would have a lot too much PvE implications, especially since DK tanks aren't exactly the best tanks around.

Yeah that's why I think a nerf will come in the form of our defensive because simply put they are a bit over the top.
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#68 Cyrus

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Posted 29 April 2011 - 07:49 PM

Yeah that's why I think a nerf will come in the form of our defensive because simply put they are a bit over the top.


Over the top is mages and rogues, DKs are in a good place right now, I swear after s5 DK players are afraid to be a strong class because theyre afraid of what their friends in durotar might say
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#69 Medulum

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 01:14 AM

In general, DKs are in a good position, and this includes both specs.

Unholy in general is a current representation of a spec that is somewhat different from the crowd in terms of play style, which is mostly its lack of burst. Overall, it seems that many specs have insane burst all together, but Unholy at the very least represents something far from that. In general, its weakness is its lack of burst.

Frost as well is in a good state and represents the opposite of what an Unholy style of play demonstrates. In its current status, it is in fact quite burst based, but this is due to Killing Machine Obliterate crits that make cloth wearers drop loads. Despite this somewhat crazy burst, there isn’t all too much outside of procs. Most DKs run a pitiful amount of crit, and thus rely on Killing Machine procs in order to even land a crit of any kind. Frost also has a key weakness within this style of play, being its mobility even with On a Pale Horse. Any team with a brain can tunnel a frost DK endlessly and make it work.

The only area that both of these specs need to nerfed in would be Anti Magic Shell. Its cooldown is far too short for the magnitude of its ability, and the glyph makes the duration all too long. Thus, the cooldown realistically should only be increased to maybe a minute or so and the glyph being removed. For those complaining about the Curse of Tongues aspect of Necrotic Strike, I would support the removal of that, but only with removal of the entire mechanical altogether. The Dark Succor glyph is also quite crazy based on how much HP it restores and needs to be reduced.

For those complaining about the insane Obliterate crits, I feel bad for you. This entire time, Obliterate has been hitting that hard, but now that warriors aren’t globaling people (jk) clothies have decided to make Frost DK’s public enemy #1. It’s quite pathetic that the AJ community completely ignores aspects of certain specs until something that was previously worse was handled with (warriors).

Edited by Medulum, 30 April 2011 - 01:28 AM.

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#70 nogames

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:30 PM

Yea seriously, everyone crying that Frost Dks need a nerf that actually plays one should quit the game. If you don't want to be nerfed reroll and stop playing a Dk. However, please stop asking for nerfs because you may be able to kill a target, it's getting out of hand now. People like you guys make it hard to play a Dk because even our own are against us. How many warriors asked for a nerf pre patch? Lets go to the mage forums and see if they are asking for one. So please stop crying so much and enjoy that you may actually have some skill and your class may be in a good position now.
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#71 Saunterqt

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 02:44 PM

Yea seriously, everyone crying that Frost Dks need a nerf that actually plays one should quit the game. If you don't want to be nerfed reroll and stop playing a Dk. However, please stop asking for nerfs because you may be able to kill a target, it's getting out of hand now. People like you guys make it hard to play a Dk because even our own are against us. How many warriors asked for a nerf pre patch? Lets go to the mage forums and see if they are asking for one. So please stop crying so much and enjoy that you may actually have some skill and your class may be in a good position now.

vileroze is begging blizz for a nerf
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#72 Hawtdawye

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 06:12 PM

Yea seriously, everyone crying that Frost Dks need a nerf that actually plays one should quit the game. If you don't want to be nerfed reroll and stop playing a Dk. However, please stop asking for nerfs because you may be able to kill a target, it's getting out of hand now. People like you guys make it hard to play a Dk because even our own are against us. How many warriors asked for a nerf pre patch? Lets go to the mage forums and see if they are asking for one. So please stop crying so much and enjoy that you may actually have some skill and your class may be in a good position now.


this!
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#73 ferz

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 06:23 PM

frost dks are up there but there are classes like mages and resto shams that need looking at first
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#74 Darrgen

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 08:09 PM

Yea seriously, everyone crying that Frost Dks need a nerf that actually plays one should quit the game. If you don't want to be nerfed reroll and stop playing a Dk. However, please stop asking for nerfs because you may be able to kill a target, it's getting out of hand now. People like you guys make it hard to play a Dk because even our own are against us. How many warriors asked for a nerf pre patch? Lets go to the mage forums and see if they are asking for one. So please stop crying so much and enjoy that you may actually have some skill and your class may be in a good position now.

Just about every warrior on these boards wanted a nerf because they knew their damage was out of hand. However they wanted charge/intercept back or some other form of compensation since that's literally all they bring. I feel the same way, our defensives are far too strong and a slight adjustment would be entirely called for. Defending our defensive abilities is fine if you like, it's completely understandable for classes to want to defend themselves, however I believe in order to have the best arena experience possible a lot of things must be adjusted and this includes our defensives.
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#75 Azorex

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:02 PM

Just about every warrior on these boards wanted a nerf because they knew their damage was out of hand. However they wanted charge/intercept back or some other form of compensation since that's literally all they bring. I feel the same way, our defensives are far too strong and a slight adjustment would be entirely called for. Defending our defensive abilities is fine if you like, it's completely understandable for classes to want to defend themselves, however I believe in order to have the best arena experience possible a lot of things must be adjusted and this includes our defensives.


our defensives are too strong? are you crazy? what about dk's, other than warriors not globalling us anymore has made us suddenly invincible? lets put this straight..

ams - lasts too long with glyph, maybe even change the glyph to give runic power from absorbs like it used to, rather than duration increase? ie...you dont tunnel damage into a frost dk with ams up...and sure, increase its cd to 1min, but will that 15sec really make that much of a difference? if you know a dk doesnt have his ams for 45sec, most good teams latch onto that straight away and say "look, that dk cant move from this nova for fucking ages, lets rape him in the open"

icebound, a fucking long cd compared to such abilities as barkskin, lock teleport, warrior shield block??, ret sacred shield still, everything rogue, and even spriest dispersion are all on a shorter cd, and just as viable as a damage reduction as this...

deathstrike is maybe op if you apply 2-3 back to back, but lets face it, if you do that you run out of runes and do 0 peels or no damage apart from the fs you weave in, just like other classes that make a trade damage vs self healing, and our heals scale just as much as theirs do for the loss they suffer....ie spriests dropping form/shielding, boomkins healing, warriors passive healing?, rogues 1 finisher for a passive heal...and the list goes on

lichborne is idd a very nice heal, but as frost its not as strong as unholy, and theres a limit to the amount of dc's you can do since you cant use ams to build huge rp...its yet again a 2min cd which is pretty much very situational

im not saying dk's are worse off than other classes, but im saying were no more better off than some others. they added deaths advance to unholy, and desecration in that spec also which makes unholy really nice mobility wise, especially adding that pet damage is a considerable portion of the damage...frost doesnt have either of these, so vs casters, and to an extent rogues, it is much more difficult to justify why frost dk would be too good right now, other than when we do connect its bursty and makes us look horribly overpowered..

i think ive said this in a previous post on another thread, i expect hungering/strang combo to be nerfed because with the burst potential and the cc we have on a 1min timer, something needs looking at...i dont believe that nerfing our sometimes ineffective defensives will fix what is "possibly" broken about frost.

Edited by Azorex, 30 April 2011 - 09:07 PM.

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#76 ROKMODE

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:38 PM

pillar of frost should not make you immune to knockbacks
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#77 Bashel

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:45 PM

pillar of frost should not make you immune to knockbacks


There shouldn't be any knockbacks in the game in the first place.
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#78 ROKMODE

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 09:53 PM

There shouldn't be any knockbacks in the game in the first place.

Well there are, and there's no reason death knights should have so many immunity abilities for mindless zerging. I get they have some mobility issues, but they shouldn't be close to unstoppable with cds. No one else has immunity to knockbacks, and the fact that it lasts 20 fucking seconds on a 1 min cd is retarded. Of all the things that annoy me vs cleave teams, pillar of frost completely screws over ele shamans. Pillar of frost then when you finally get a thunderstorm, deathgrip completely negates it. At least thunderstorm works during ams.

Edited by ROKMODE, 30 April 2011 - 09:54 PM.

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#79 Darrgen

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:15 PM

our defensives are too strong? are you crazy? what about dk's, other than warriors not globalling us anymore has made us suddenly invincible? lets put this straight..

ams - lasts too long with glyph, maybe even change the glyph to give runic power from absorbs like it used to, rather than duration increase? ie...you dont tunnel damage into a frost dk with ams up...and sure, increase its cd to 1min, but will that 15sec really make that much of a difference? if you know a dk doesnt have his ams for 45sec, most good teams latch onto that straight away and say "look, that dk cant move from this nova for fucking ages, lets rape him in the open"

icebound, a fucking long cd compared to such abilities as barkskin, lock teleport, warrior shield block??, ret sacred shield still, everything rogue, and even spriest dispersion are all on a shorter cd, and just as viable as a damage reduction as this...

deathstrike is maybe op if you apply 2-3 back to back, but lets face it, if you do that you run out of runes and do 0 peels or no damage apart from the fs you weave in, just like other classes that make a trade damage vs self healing, and our heals scale just as much as theirs do for the loss they suffer....ie spriests dropping form/shielding, boomkins healing, warriors passive healing?, rogues 1 finisher for a passive heal...and the list goes on

lichborne is idd a very nice heal, but as frost its not as strong as unholy, and theres a limit to the amount of dc's you can do since you cant use ams to build huge rp...its yet again a 2min cd which is pretty much very situational

im not saying dk's are worse off than other classes, but im saying were no more better off than some others. they added deaths advance to unholy, and desecration in that spec also which makes unholy really nice mobility wise, especially adding that pet damage is a considerable portion of the damage...frost doesnt have either of these, so vs casters, and to an extent rogues, it is much more difficult to justify why frost dk would be too good right now, other than when we do connect its bursty and makes us look horribly overpowered..

i think ive said this in a previous post on another thread, i expect hungering/strang combo to be nerfed because with the burst potential and the cc we have on a 1min timer, something needs looking at...i dont believe that nerfing our sometimes ineffective defensives will fix what is "possibly" broken about frost.

I have 2 teams over 2700 and 2 more 2600+ on my dk and I absolutely do not die right now. I play with a priest and sometimes he dies from a zerg early and we still win matches because with my cooldowns I can live for nearly a minute straight with just feral peels. A lot of matches often come down to a 2v2 and if they target me it's almost 100% a victory for us unless it's vs another frost dk. I'm the only melee that can literally stand out in the open vs lsd and not have to worry about getting killed unless it's a map like dalaran where they knock me off when grip is down. You may think im joking but im not. Only other class that has better survivability than us is a rogue and rogues need nerfs too in that department. What im suggesting would in no way destroy our class, only bring us more in line with what the game should be at. 55 second cooldown 5 second ams and 12% healing death strike would not all of the sudden make dks bad.
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#80 Covlol

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Posted 30 April 2011 - 10:22 PM

I have 2 teams over 2700 and 2 more 2600+ on my dk and I absolutely do not die right now. I play with a priest and sometimes he dies from a zerg early and we still win matches because with my cooldowns I can live for nearly a minute straight with just feral peels. A lot of matches often come down to a 2v2 and if they target me it's almost 100% a victory for us unless it's vs another frost dk. I'm the only melee that can literally stand out in the open vs lsd and not have to worry about getting killed unless it's a map like dalaran where they knock me off when grip is down. You may think im joking but im not. Only other class that has better survivability than us is a rogue and rogues need nerfs too in that department. What im suggesting would in no way destroy our class, only bring us more in line with what the game should be at. 55 second cooldown 5 second ams and 12% healing death strike would not all of the sudden make dks bad.



it would all of a sudden fix some balance issues in our defensive department imo
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