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Should Ring of Frost be on cold snap ?


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#81 Nisslol

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 03:03 PM

View PostKIA Skill, on 23 April 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

I don't think I've ever seen a trap resist in cata, sounds like you're just making excuses for being shit and missing traps.

are you for real? I just can't help it, you, sir, are an idiot.

Popped a molly, I'm sweating.
420

View PostRizzo, on 07 April 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

World of Cantcastunlessitsinstantcraft:  CCataclysm


View PostAyrasaurus, on 18 May 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

im an idiot


#82 KIA Skill

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 07:15 PM

View Postcyrfer, on 23 April 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

OR you could just nova the guy (and deep freeze/counter/fear/blind/wheatever the dispeller) and he will stand there cursing how retarded mage mechanics are.

That sounds like a solid plan, I use 3 of my other crowd control effects to get one of my crowd control abilities to land.

Just be glad you're playing warrior class.

#83 cyrfer

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Posted 23 April 2011 - 11:53 PM

View PostKIA Skill, on 23 April 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

That sounds like a solid plan, I use 3 of my other crowd control effects to get one of my crowd control abilities to land.

Just be glad you're playing warrior class.
and im just glad that you imply its a waste to cc 2 opponents to kill the third one.

View PostGLopez, on 19 March 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

I have never trolled in my life.

#84 Nitric

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:00 AM

make all CC share a common DR  B) B) B) B) B) B)

#85 threatslol

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 08:55 AM

just like the wow forums. mages come out of the woodwork to defend how weak their class is.

"lol r u dumb? y would i use 1 of my 5 ccs with less than 30 second cd 2 get som1 in my 2 minute cd????? lucky u r a warrior becuz wen i got gladiator in seson 4 walkin in 2 traps was a rare occurence and now i am 700 rated and i no a thing or 2 about magi"
this is threats btw

#86 Quann

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:41 AM

View PostIspen, on 23 April 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:

It's scary how hunter class is overpopulated with retards comparing to any other class and it's not even close.
All 8 second unavoidable instant CCs should have long cooldowns and they shouldn't be included in cooldown resetters.
DF + RoF is annoying, cold snap resetting sure is unnecessary but hunter cc needs to be revised as well, healer getting cc'ed unavoidably for 15 seconds every 30 seconds is unnecessary, let alone Readiness resetting it. Hope you process it this time.

Yes. But my point is. Deep-RoF is unavoidable. Sure you can stun the mage or silence the mage, but is it not true you can also stun the hunter and disarm him after a scatter?

Can Ring of Frost be resisted with Spell Pen Cap? No
Can Traps be resisted with Spell Pen Cap? Yes

Can RoF be eaten: No
Can Traps be eaten: Yes

Apart from Deep RoF being better than Scatter-Trapping, please stop trying to place Hunter CC as an equal place to mage CC. It is NOT unavoidable, not to the extent that mage CC is anywhoo.

Oh yeah, and to the tard to said he hadn't seen a resisted trap throughout this season. I guess there isn't really much to say either you've been very unfortunate to not have one of the many, many traps resist on you, or you are, as previously said, an idiot.

Edited by Quann, 24 April 2011 - 09:43 AM.


#87 Quann

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 09:44 AM

View PostKIA Skill, on 23 April 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

That sounds like a solid plan, I use 3 of my other crowd control effects to get one of my crowd control abilities to land.

Just be glad you're playing warrior class.

Much like landing a trap my friend.

#88 Tankz

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:27 AM

tldr: mages : "ROF MIGHT BE OP, BUT SCATTER IS WORSE" NERF SCATTER" - hunters/KFC - "SCATTER IS FINE, NERF ROF"

\o/
wat is dis game

#89 Alysana

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 11:51 AM

That's such a dumb logic. Just because you're playing an "op" class doesn't mean you're blind and can't see other broken areas of the game. Many warriors admit they're broken anyways, is it their fault they're dealing outrageous damage?

Edited by Alysana, 24 April 2011 - 11:51 AM.


#90 Quann

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 12:24 PM

View PostAlysana, on 24 April 2011 - 11:51 AM, said:

That's such a dumb logic. Just because you're playing an "op" class doesn't mean you're blind and can't see other broken areas of the game. Many warriors admit they're broken anyways, is it their fault they're dealing outrageous damage?

<3

#91 Ispen

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 02:51 PM

View PostQuann, on 24 April 2011 - 09:41 AM, said:

Apart from Deep RoF being better than Scatter-Trapping, please stop trying to place Hunter CC as an equal place to mage CC. It is NOT unavoidable, not to the extent that mage CC is anywhoo.
I dunno if it's me or KFC people have their list of preset answers and throw them in without reading. I never said Hunter CC is better/equal of DF+RoF.
It's pretty clear that mage can control more, has better tools and so on, independently from the dynamics of the mage class(which requires cc nerfs), it should be obvious to anyone who plays this game that hunter's ability of shutting down a healer is way too good especially with the cooldown resetter.

#92 Xyelól

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Posted 24 April 2011 - 03:27 PM

View PostAmoniel, on 21 April 2011 - 10:42 AM, said:

yes and it would fix the RMP domination all of a sudden aswell :)

Good.

#93 Scyber

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 12:16 AM

View PostKIA Skill, on 24 April 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

Seriously, warriors/hunters complaining about another class right now is a joke. If you're playing KFC and you're still complaining about another class/comp then I blame your parents for the over consumption of alcohol and/or drugs during pregnancy. You should be able to notice from the negative rep your outrageously retarded posts get and the positive ones mine get.
You don't have to be retarded to state that a skill not working sometimes is quite frustrating.

#94 Shamanizer

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Posted 25 April 2011 - 01:43 PM

View PostIspen, on 24 April 2011 - 02:51 PM, said:

I dunno if it's me or KFC people have their list of preset answers and throw them in without reading. I never said Hunter CC is better/equal of DF+RoF.
It's pretty clear that mage can control more, has better tools and so on, independently from the dynamics of the mage class(which requires cc nerfs), it should be obvious to anyone who plays this game that hunter's ability of shutting down a healer is way too good especially with the cooldown resetter.

mages abilites to shut down a healer is better if not superior than a hunter?

i realise hunter have scatter trap, which is kind of a df>rof, but it can be eaten, and if you play it properly, you should know a hunter is gonna try and pull it off, so its just about getting your team mates to help you not getting cc'ed, which they cant really do properly againts df>ring.

Stun mage, sure, you dont get df-> rof'ed the next 30 secs, in those 30 secs theyr pressure can still be high, and you might have to trinket something else, which leads to the inevitable and unavoidable df-> rof
Vhell at MLG 2010 at Sodah vs tremor totem:

Quote

"Tremor totem is a totem that will pulse and break fears. Right when you drop it, it will break fears too. What we saw was Sodah targeting the tremor totem right from the start, he has a macro that will target the tremor totem..."

???

#95 Charred

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:54 PM

View Postcyrfer, on 23 April 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

hope you can process that scatter trap is avoidable by simple walking to the trap and standing there.
also the difference is that hunters got web on a much longer cd than mages got 1 of their countless novas on any cd.
even without deep freeze you could easily apply rof.

hunters basically have to sacrifice 2 cc spells for one.

also hunter trap breaks on 1 damage and affect 1 target on a single spot whilst rof break after a treshhold damage and controls a whole area (while sometimes affecting 2 or even more people because of novas.

hope you can now understand that you can NOT compare scatter trap to rof AT ALL.
Because every class can instantly get to their healer when he calls the scatter trap n eat it right?
If I blink to my healer as a mage to eat the trap, i'll be tanking the living daylights out of the inc dmgoutput after that due to my blink being on cooldown (assuming facing KFC or Hunter/feral/shaman, the 2 most popular hunter combo's).

Are you serious? How is the same not true for DFring? You know it's called DF-Ring for a reason, aka Deep Freeze+Ring of Frost, 2 CC's. For every DF-Ring a mage gets off, a hunter can do 4 times more Scatter Traps aswell.

If you're damaging the target you've CC'd, you're fucking up to begin with. It's not it's ever an issue that ring doesn't instantly break on dmg. I can't recall the last time the target in my ring got damaged atleast.
Yes ring of frost also functions as an area denial spell, but I can't recall the last time my DF-ring functioned as both an isntant CC and an area denial at the same time. In that sense, DF-ring is very similar to Scatter-trap aswell.
Hunters give up their frost trap in order to use Freezing trap. When a mage choses to use DF-Ring for the instant CC, you pretty much give up on the area denial aspect from Ring of Frost aswell. Obviously this isn't as exclusive, but in the vast majority of the cases that is how it goes.
The times that I get a ring that hit's more than 1 person, it's because off poor positioning of the other team on my invis opener. That's called getting outplayed. You'll barely ever land a DF-ring on the healer aswell as another teammate at the same time outside of fucking up on the invis opener.

Scattertrap & DFring are very comparable. Both are instant CC's, both are broken. Yes it's retarded that scatter-trap can still be resisted, but that's just a fucktarded mechanic caused by Blizzard (that should be fixed), without any logical reason to be still present in the game. They remove so much RNG & something as silly as trapresists isn't adressed for some reason.


If DF-Ring wouldn't exist, Ring of Frost would be close to useless due to it's 3second time before it kicks in.Because of that, it's terrible weak for area denial, even when placing somebody in the center of it, casters can still cast while being in the center, rogues can shs out of it, other mages can blink out of it (unsure but I think warriors & ferals can leap (not charge) out of it?)
It's only a very strong spell outside DF-ring when combined with other area denial spells such as solar beam & smoke bomb (rootbeam+ring around it is atleast a 10sec CC on the healer even if he trinkets the root to get out of the beam, he'll still be Ringed; smoke bomb+ring around a healer on your opener as RMP).
Even when you succesfully use Ring as an area denial on anything besides the healer, it's still easily dispelled in the end.

Now again, let me stress, I do not think DF-Ring is fine, im not defending it by any means, but neither do I think trap+scatter is fine. I think both should be removed or tweaked. But like many people have said, that's just what the game has become.
And yes, I'm aware that these spells aren't the same, yet they are very similar & definitly comparable.
Yes I also believe that scatter-trap still being unavoidbly resistable is completely fucking retarded.

I would personally love to see the DF-ring combo removed (for example by simply making Deep Frozen Targets immune to the Ring of frost freeze for 1 second after Deep Freeze wears off & during the Deep Freeze Duration) & see ring of frost get some minor tweaks to turn it into a true area denial spell, rather than an instant substitute for polymorph due to the way WoW has developped.
I do though also believe that Scatter-trap should be removed from this game, or atleast get hit by a significant nerf (for example simply not allowing Freezing Trap to be used by Trap Launcher, I think the original scatter-trap is just fine. If you get caught in a healer by that, you're just getting outplayed).


Anyhow, I tried to not sound biased in this post & I hope it came over that way.
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#96 cyrfer

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 07:00 PM

Quote

If DF-Ring wouldn't exist, Ring of Frost would be close to useless due to it's 3second time before it kicks in.
and thats where you are completely wrong.
you could easily nova someone and get a ring off (while ccing the dispeller, so he can´t dispel)on him. this would make ring way more balanced, because it would require more setup but it would still be powerful.
you would have to "sacrifice" 1 cc more.

Quote

Now again, let me stress, I do not think DF-Ring is fine, im not defending it by any means, but neither do I think trap+scatter is fine.
you do realiue that this is the only "hard cc" hunter have and the only other way to apply trap would be by pinning/webbing the opponent?
problem with that (opposed to lets say one of your novas) is the longish cd on web/pin.
there is not even a choice but to scatter trap and even this is not as reliable as rof.

also given the amount of cc hunter has, i think scatter trap is fine.

p.s. i do not play with a hunter.

Edited by cyrfer, 26 April 2011 - 07:02 PM.

View PostGLopez, on 19 March 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

I have never trolled in my life.

#97 Charred

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Posted 26 April 2011 - 11:31 PM

View Postcyrfer, on 26 April 2011 - 07:00 PM, said:

and thats where you are completely wrong.
you could easily nova someone and get a ring off (while ccing the dispeller, so he can´t dispel)on him. this would make ring way more balanced, because it would require more setup but it would still be powerful.
you would have to "sacrifice" 1 cc more.


you do realiue that this is the only "hard cc" hunter have and the only other way to apply trap would be by pinning/webbing the opponent?
problem with that (opposed to lets say one of your novas) is the longish cd on web/pin.
there is not even a choice but to scatter trap and even this is not as reliable as rof.

also given the amount of cc hunter has, i think scatter trap is fine.

p.s. i do not play with a hunter.

No, by claiming that, you just admit to how useless CC/control has become in cata on anything but the healer, which is another core issue of Mages since we're the most heavy CC/control class. We have an overpowered amount of control, but unless the healer is CC'd or pressured heavily, the strenght of our CC/control diminishes quickly.
I'd gladly trade off half my CC/roots/slows if we had a way to protect them from dispels.
On top of that, you pose another concern, which is the fact that the healer has to be CC'd in the first place. Outside Ring of frost, the only instant CC we have is Deep Freeze.
Did you ever think for a moment as of why Ring is almost solely used as an instant single target CC, while obviously this wasn't the desired effect of the spell at all? Not only because obviously, instant CC is very strong, but also because it's a necesity in the current state of the game. There is an abundance of direct interupts in WoW Arena in cataclysm (every team having atleast 3), on top of which most teams have a truckload of ways to prevent casting (ranging from stuns to absorbs etc). If that isn't enough, casting speed slowing effects are also more popular then ever & new ones have been added to the game & as for mages it's become impossible to stack haste unless you play with a rogue or feral, aswell as it being pretty much impossible to still use the IV glyph thanks to the nececity of the other glyphs that we have. And as the cherry on top, the casting time of the castable CC's have been increased aswell.
Summarized, it's never been harder to cast polymorph on a target, or in general, get casts off, while at the same time it's never been less rewarding.

And why exactly would hunters need that hard CC? You're applying the same fucktarded homogenization logic that Blizzard utilizes here. All healers need dispel, all non healers have to lose defensive dispel, all classes need interupts, etc.. It's that kind of logic that has fucked up this game to what it has become today.
Also like I said, scatter trap wasn't considered broken before. It's trap launcher that completely broke it.
A similar story is true for DF-ring. One of the major issues with it isn't the DF-ring itself, but the fact that it's become so easy to throw Deep Freeze around thanks to the new talent Improved Freeze.

An 12 second ranged instant CC-chain with a 30 second cooldown is broken, no matter how you want to bend or twist it. The only ways of preventing it, is when a teammate is close enough or has a tool to get in range of his healer to eat the trap or when the target is a priest, who is good enough to SW:D the scatter. Like I pointed out before, even if you have such tools, it isn't always possible to use them.
People act as if it's the easiest thing in the world to eat scatter-traps, while in reality it isn't always possible due to positioning and/or due to team makeup/matchup.

At first, solely playing my mage, when I just picked up WoW again after 1.5year hiatus, I didn't understand the commotion about Scatter-trap/DF-ring either.
Yet after playing my priest, it just felt so incredibly broken, it's not even funny. While i'm not yet comfortable enough on my priest to anticipate every scatter trap & either SW:D it or lifegrip a teammate before it's about to go off, I really don't think that this is what it should take to prevent it either.
I already stated it earlier in this post, a 12-second ranged instant CC chain on a 30second cooldown is completely broken & has to be fixed, no matter what.

Edited by Charred, 26 April 2011 - 11:32 PM.

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#98 Broxxy

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 12:26 AM

Im just curious,  this is a question to you mages. Its apparent you all along with your rmp counterparts feel deep ring is fine. So if your seriously implying scatter trap is as broken as deep ring what would you guys suggest hunter cc be? The cd duration and method of applying it. Just pretend your devs for a day. Consider the class play style and limitations of the class and design a cc system. Would you mirror it to your own class? The targetable aspect of your cc, along with keeping your roots and castable cc as well. Would you increase the cd on it and free up frost traps so hunters can root melee on em while making it a target applied ability? These discussions are getting old and its the same stuff eveytime. The community bashing mages control and the rmp crowd dreging up scatter trap to justify it. So like I said. Design a cc for hunters. Im curious to hear what some of you like affx and other mage heroes would consider adequate cc for a different range class since the design decisions for mages are fine for you guys in the current state of wow arena

Edited by Broxxy, 27 April 2011 - 12:30 AM.


#99 Charred

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 12:34 AM

I just posted 2 huge-ass walls of text if you'd care about it. And like I say in it, most mages actually don't believe that DF-Ring is balanced (i they do atleast) yet, like I also state, it's sort off necisarry in how this game has changed with Cataclysm.
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#100 KIA Skill

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Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:46 AM

View PostBroxxy, on 27 April 2011 - 12:26 AM, said:

Im just curious,  this is a question to you mages. Its apparent you all along with your rmp counterparts feel deep ring is fine. So if your seriously implying scatter trap is as broken as deep ring what would you guys suggest hunter cc be? The cd duration and method of applying it. Just pretend your devs for a day. Consider the class play style and limitations of the class and design a cc system. Would you mirror it to your own class? The targetable aspect of your cc, along with keeping your roots and castable cc as well. Would you increase the cd on it and free up frost traps so hunters can root melee on em while making it a target applied ability? These discussions are getting old and its the same stuff eveytime. The community bashing mages control and the rmp crowd dreging up scatter trap to justify it. So like I said. Design a cc for hunters. Im curious to hear what some of you like affx and other mage heroes would consider adequate cc for a different range class since the design decisions for mages are fine for you guys in the current state of wow arena

How about a CC with no CD and a 1.8 sec cast time, but you have to wear cloth to cast it and your dmg is cut in half.




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