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#21 faction

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:39 AM

I don't want compensation, I want defensive dispel. This is something the class has been built upon; they've taken Vampiric Embrace and everything else iconic to us, but if this is removed, I'm done with the game.


now you know how ret paladins feel ;)

changes have to be made for The Greater Good Of Balance. blizzard got themselves into this mess by removing dispel resistance and giving every healer defensive dispel, they're too deep in to go back and change all that so yeah.
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#22 Moridinn

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:40 AM

yes its in disc. but if you read the change absolution lets your dispel magic remove 2 buffs offensively and lets defensive dispel be cast on others, normal dispel non talented is only able to be casted on Yourself

hence shadow can remove several annoying things off of themselves


Actually the talent does not change anything offensively. For disc, it will be 2 magic debuffs from any friendly target, and 1 magic buff for hostile targets.

I like the change, but since there's no Tier / Ranks to Absolution, I think it's actually tied to the disc specalization. Either way, if Shadow are supposed to be unable to get it, so will Holy, so this completely guts Holy PvP and hurts them in PvE too. I think we'll see an addition to the Holy specalization giving them the same ability soon.

Anyway, enjoy it while it lasts... As for me, I'll be waiting in great anticipation for the compensating buffs to our dispel protection.
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#23 Staircase

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:42 AM

As for me, I'll be waiting in great anticipation for the compensating buffs to our dispel protection.


Don't hold your breath...
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#24 Fadezz^

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:46 AM

Actually the talent does not change anything offensively. For disc, it will be 2 magic debuffs from any friendly target, and 1 magic buff for hostile targets.

I like the change, but since there's no Tier / Ranks to Absolution, I think it's actually tied to the disc specalization. Either way, if Shadow are supposed to be unable to get it, so will Holy, so this completely guts Holy PvP and hurts them in PvE too. I think we'll see an addition to the Holy specalization giving them the same ability soon.

Anyway, enjoy it while it lasts... As for me, I'll be waiting in great anticipation for the compensating buffs to our dispel protection.


typo oops
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#25 jizoke

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:02 AM

that's just not true at all though try playing without using defensive dispel I bet you still win most of your games ;)

Will warlocks be better? probably yeah. Will spriests still be good? I pretty much guarantee they will be.


Vs another high rated team? Dunno if you were watching my stream tonight when we were playing against talb, but without defensive dispel they would literally have 0% chance of winning. You can simply CC train the ever living shit out of the spriest's healer while training the spriest and dispelling his dots lol.
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#26 faction

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:04 AM

Vs another high rated team? Dunno if you were watching my stream tonight when we were playing against talb, but without defensive dispel they would literally have 0% chance of winning. You can simply CC train the ever living shit out of the spriest's healer while training the spriest and dispelling his dots lol.


i missed that but really spriests super vulnerable to being trained? maybe you'll be right but I don't think we will be (mostly thanks to the mooncloth 4 pc). Its really easy to kite non-rogue melee if you have teammates who can press slows on them right now as i'm sure you've noticed. shield isn't being nerfed and dispersions cd is extremely low.

maybe I shouldn't have said we'd be fine without dot protection, we DEFINITELY need dot protection, wasn't trying to say we didnt, but I think even if we dont get it, life will go on and shadow will remain viable. warlocks will be better, but warlocks were always better and people still played shadow.

Edited by faction, 24 February 2011 - 10:08 AM.

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#27 Kaaj

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:06 AM

can still md CC on the healer...not like its a ton of comfort to think about if that is how we get teammates out of cc from now on. But like feral losing shift and spriest losing defensive ally dispel, the game will go on. Something did need to be done about our defensive dispel though.
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#28 Rawkus

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:07 AM

i missed that but really spriests super vulnerable to being trained? maybe you'll be right but I don't think we will be (mostly thanks to the mooncloth 4 pc). Its really easy to kite non-rogue melee if you have teammates who can press slows on them right now as i'm sure you've noticed. shield isn't being nerfed and dispersions cd is extremely low.


Dude, but you have to stop to cast if you want to get VT up, everyone and their fckin mother has an interrupt and cant forget stuns. WE'RE SO BONED.
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#29 Rawkus

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:08 AM

can still md CC on the healer...not like its a ton of comfort to think about if that is how we get teammates out of cc from now on. But like feral losing shift and spriest losing defensive ally dispel, the game will go on. Something did need to be done about our defensive dispel though.


The playstyle sounds even stupider than running around melee'ing totems to get fears off. Its just going to be such a strange mechanic to have to do that lol.
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#30 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:09 AM

Vs another high rated team? Dunno if you were watching my stream tonight when we were playing against talb, but without defensive dispel they would literally have 0% chance of winning. You can simply CC train the ever living shit out of the spriest's healer while training the spriest and dispelling his dots lol.

ya thanks for being cool and queuing till we were 3k
anyway this change isn't going to really change shadow that much.. dumb comps like spriest dk druid / spriest warrior druid will lose viability (spriests really aren't meant to play with these classes), where shadowplay, spriest rogue druid, and spriest mage druid will still maintain high viability
1 offensive dispel sucks more than the defensive dispel change to me, but as long as they change a few things with disc buffs it'll be fine (grace/borrowed time dispellable)
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#31 Rawkus

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:12 AM

ya thanks for being cool and queuing till we were 3k
anyway this change isn't going to really change shadow that much.. dumb comps like spriest dk druid / spriest warrior druid will lose viability (spriests really aren't meant to play with these classes), where shadowplay, spriest rogue druid, and spriest mage druid will still maintain high viability
1 offensive dispel sucks more than the defensive dispel change to me, but as long as they change a few things with disc buffs it'll be fine (grace/borrowed time dispellable)


Why aren't spriests meant to play with those classes? lock/mages can play with literally everything haha.
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#32 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:14 AM

Why aren't spriests meant to play with those classes? lock/mages can play with literally everything haha.

spriests play with classes with a lot of peels or CC, so that the other team is forced to go on that target or allow them to take control of the game by themselves. that's how it's been forever... aside from spriest ele druid last season.
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#33 faction

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:15 AM

everyone only having 1 offensive dispel sucks... i much prefer dispel resist+shaman and priest having 2 to no dispel resist+having 1.
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#34 jizoke

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:17 AM

i missed that but really spriests super vulnerable to being trained? maybe you'll be right but I don't think we will be (mostly thanks to the mooncloth 4 pc). Its really easy to kite non-rogue melee if you have teammates who can press slows on them right now as i'm sure you've noticed. shield isn't being nerfed and dispersions cd is extremely low.


It is just the fact that spriests do shit all damage when they're being trained because their dispel protection is awful. You can completely shut a spriest down by training him and dispelling his dots. However, even if they're getting trained in current patch they can still defensively dispel their partners which in turn make us better than warlocks. We can keep our team going and then do some max damage when we eventually land that fear. Our damage is NOT high unless we have 5 stack evang + MB which isn't the easiest to ramp up when you get that window of free casting time. I don't know man, I'm going to feel like a wet noodle if an RMP goes to pound town on me and I can only watch my druid eat deep -> ring -> imp CS all whilst eating shit and doing no damage. Not to mention 1 offensive dispel :/

Edited by jizoke, 24 February 2011 - 10:20 AM.

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#35 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 10:24 AM

well RMP is pretty fucking dumb with the amount of CC it has so everyone feels that way when they play it without 2 dispels on team
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#36 hotcowz

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:13 AM

Any reason to play with a spriest over an equally skilled lock if there will be no compensation?
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#37 Aberration

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:13 AM

Jesus christ this change is ridiculous because they give no sort of compensation to shadow for the loss. The spec definitely can't be that much better than bringing a warlock now...if at all.
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#38 Aberration

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:31 AM

Wow... so now I'm a 7 button class, sounds fun.

Edited by Delirious, 24 February 2011 - 11:31 AM.

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#39 Staircase

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:38 AM

Wow... so now I'm a 7 button class, sounds fun.


While I'm not holding my breath for any compensation, it's worth keeping in mind that this is the first set of datamined changes in a patch that is at least a month away.
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#40 medze

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 11:54 AM

Let's hope they throw us a bone and give us compensation for this. Maybe bringing our silence in line with other casters would be a good start. I'm not asking for a 24 second cooldown like mages and locks, but 30-35 seconds doesn't seem unreasonable if they lower the duration of the blanket silence and allow Silence to lock out as well.

Also, I believe Sin and Punishment DR should be removed to give us more adequate dispel protection (versus those pesky double defensive dispel disc priests :lol: ). Mouzi pretty much summed up the perils of having weak protection for dispels, it's easy to stop the damage by training us and dispelling the VT. 3 second horror on the healer is nothing when its so difficult against many teams to even cast the VT in the first place. After the first DR, the dispeller is gaining ground on you as you have to spend at least 1.5 seconds at the very minimum putting the VT up. One of the things I always enjoyed about playing with an affliction lock as a partner was that my dots would actually stick. Healers are afraid to dispel UA, they're not afraid to dispel VT. Fix this

Seems like a fair trade-off for losing defensive dispel (In reality we will get nothing)
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