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Help holy paladins.


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#1 nevercasts

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 04:38 PM

I posted a thread on the offical bliz forums in the "arena" section. I don't know if blues ever look at it but if you agree with me and feel like trying promote the thread to give blizzard some insight on the problems holy paladins are having please do so and add a response/report it :).

Thread: http://us.battle.net...202189?page=1#5

Posted this one in the healing forums. Supposately it gets more attention so support it there:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089112057?page=1#6
The first thread reached its post limit. Part 2 Is now up: http://us.battle.net...opic/2211922103

Heres another thread that made reference to my orignal one: http://us.battle.net...opic/2211921890

EU Thread: http://eu.battle.net...52568?page=1#11

/edit
Heres the main part of it


While I understand this game is more centered around pve hopefully some compromise can be made not to completely ignore the pvp side of the game.
Right now holy paladins are in a bad state. We heal for less than other healers (outside long CDs), offer close to no CC, and have the worst dispel.

Heals
The main problem with our heals is that they are all direct. With every healing class given defensive dispels and other pseudo-spells that other healers have, why do we not have a good reliable hot/shield (pre-emptive healing).

Even our direct heals right now, supposedly our niche, are hitting for less (outside druids) then other healers. Why does my disc priest in full blues (has epic mh/oh) heal for more on a flash heal and cost 2000mana less then my paladin in full epics. Something is very wrong when other healers our outcompeting us in one area we are suppose to excel at.

Dispels
Dispel strength in pvp is related to being able to remove CC on a teammate. This is why I would hands down consider a paladin to have the weakest dispel in a pvp situation. We cannot cleanse curses (Hex) like shamans/druids, or double magic dispels like priest, and our dispel offers no extra benefit like shaman's/priest's (when glyhed) i.e. dispel heal (which heals for similar amounts of our holy shock).

Crowd Control
Not much to say about this. We offer less CC then any of the other healers, not only that, but our "CC" requires us to be in melee range. Being in melee range as a holy paladin is incredible dangerous due to our pre-mentioned lack of pre-emptive healing. Coming away from a pillar to land said CC can result in the paladin going into full CC chains. I'm sure this is how its suppose to work but the broken part of it is that we cannot predict and prebuff/hot before putting ourselves in this position, like all the other healers can.

Dispel protection
It's funny how completely ignored holy spec paladins were when it came to this topic. All other healers had defensive mechanics made undispellable. Druids barkskin, Priest pain suppression, Shamans earth shield yet holy was untouched. Our divine protection at the very least should be given the same treatment as barkskin.

This problem extends across aspects of the holy spec. We are heavily dependent on our CDs to compete in arena. At low to middle ratings these CDs fair well but at high end pvp they become rather insignificant. With a lack of dispel protection of even folder buffs all of our hand spells are dispelled immediately rendering them close to useless. Something really needs to be done about this.




Holy paladins use to be a class formed of very unique spells. Basically what I have seen over the last two expansions and indeed more apparent in Cataclysm is the complete gutting of paladins. It seems we were sent straight to a chop shop and all of our abilities we given out to other classes/specs while we received nothing new or similar to other healers (hots/shields/CC). The decline of paladins in arena over time was predicted however it seems that this has been rather accelerated and I for one don't understand why any 3v3 team would rather play with a paladin over another healer.

Edited by nevercasts, 09 March 2011 - 08:24 AM.

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#2 Máverick1296678354

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:23 PM

Pretty good post, i'd be amazed if blizzard did anything about it though before season end.
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#3 Subby

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:24 PM

;o if paladins dont get changed theyre gonna be as useless in s10 as a priest was in s9 pre patch, any other healer can do a better job
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#4 Athená

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:41 PM

I knew it was over when they gave priests a freedom as well as an aura mastery, both on shorter cd.
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#5 Psychic1

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 05:50 PM

Couldn't agree more, playing my shaman with way worse gear and its so much better

time to reroll ret!
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#6 Delorave

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 06:19 PM

I got fed up against Mage/S.priest/Druid. Its impossible to not get caught in a chain of cc's that last like 20 seconds. Deep freeze/sheep/fear/cs/silence/physic horror/cyclone lol. I mean its possible to avoid some with sac/bubble but once bubble is down its more or less over.
I just started playing my R.druid again and I can't begin to say how much more enjoyable it is. I can run around casting instants all day only worrying about blanket silences. Hots give me the choice to not have to trinket a full fear since the majority of the time that 3 stacks of lifebloom non crit heal for 30k+ lol.
H.paladins need sacred shield back or mastery needs to get buffed.
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#7 Puch

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:03 PM

since the majority of the time that 3 stacks of lifebloom non crit heal for 30k+ lol.



wat

trolololollo? my 3 stack non crit is like 22k 3 stack crit (15% chance crit in full gear) is like 33k

do love some 3 stack life bloom healing for 1700 MAN ITS SO GOOD HAVING HOTS

Edited by Puch, 17 February 2011 - 07:03 PM.

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#8 WACOO

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:07 PM

3 stacks of lifebloom non crit heal for 30k+ lol.



non crit 30k+, so your lb stacks crit for 60k? yea that doesn't sound like bullshit or anything lol.
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#9 Kurum

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:07 PM

just abandon pally like i did and play something else its not worth it atm unless you know an amazing shadowpriest/x or something
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#10 Arrann

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:13 PM

just tanked my awesome winrate WMP last night and it felt like everything countered us :(
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#11 Máverick1296678354

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:34 PM

wat

trolololollo? my 3 stack non crit is like 22k 3 stack crit (15% chance crit in full gear) is like 33k

do love some 3 stack life bloom healing for 1700 MAN ITS SO GOOD HAVING HOTS


You are right, must be rough only healing 30-40k(inc other hots) in the duration of a cc. It's not that much better than healing ZERO when a holy paladin is cc'ed.
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#12 Arrann

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:34 PM

non crit 30k+, so your lb stacks crit for 60k? yea that doesn't sound like bullshit or anything lol.


healing crits don't heal for double the normal amount
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#13 isabis

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 07:41 PM

Just a guess, but wouldn't it be a lot better if you posted this in Healing forum?
Don't think they read arena forum at all...


edit: lol when some 1.5k random comes up with a reply "paladins have infinite mana and never die, you are fine l2p" or "deal with it or reroll" lmao.
It's so... nvm not gonna bother it's pointless. Just gonna /facepalm.

Edited by isabis, 17 February 2011 - 07:52 PM.

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#14 Spooksrus

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 08:50 PM

No reason not to replace a pally with any other healer for any comp. Holy paladins really bring nothing to the table that any other healer has since our hand spells are gone instantly with any team with a brain that have a offensive dispel. We are not even useful in dispel cleave anymore since all healers got dispel.

In my opinion to fix some of these problems is
-make hand of sac undiseplable or make it a shorter cool down with a less duration so it will take some skill to throw it up while getting cced.
-make bubble 12 seconds again(not sure why they reduced it to 8seconds)
-Make our mastery somewhat useful other that just a trash debuff(not sure what they can do with this)
-Not sure how long priest aura mastery is but make ours longer that 6 seconds. 6 seconds is stupid easy to counter with all stuns lasting at least 3 and cool down stuns last 5 to 6


until then time to go ret [email protected]
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#15 allana

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:47 PM

buffs paladins need

glyph of mass dispel removed, cast time 2 seconds
ring of frost cooldown increased to like 15 minutes (no use in arena)
improved counterspell moved to tier3 arcane
strangulate glyph removed
garrote silence removed

-> maybe then we can actually play the game? I don't know, I love my paladin but I want to delete it after even trying 3s, done so many different setups lately and it's the same thing. If the enemy team has a priest in it, they will ride me 100% of the game. Why switch, play dk double healer ride the paladin until he dies. Same with RMP. Only difference is shatterplay, they train my melee instead and cc me for the entire duration.

Luckily, I have a geared resto druid so I might as well play it instead of my paladin. This game is atrocious at the moment, feels like TBC as a paladin all over again. Time for 5s?
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#16 faction

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 09:49 PM

Post in damage dealing, they don't read arena.
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#17 nevercasts

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:51 PM

Just a guess, but wouldn't it be a lot better if you posted this in Healing forum?
Don't think they read arena forum at all...


edit: lol when some 1.5k random comes up with a reply "paladins have infinite mana and never die, you are fine l2p" or "deal with it or reroll" lmao.
It's so... nvm not gonna bother it's pointless. Just gonna /facepalm.

Hahaha yes thats already been said.

Anyways I took you advice and posted one in the healing forums aswell
http://us.battle.net...112057?page=1#6

I dont know which one would be better to support.
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#18 nevercasts

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:53 PM

No reason not to replace a pally with any other healer for any comp. Holy paladins really bring nothing to the table that any other healer has since our hand spells are gone instantly with any team with a brain that have a offensive dispel. We are not even useful in dispel cleave anymore since all healers got dispel.

In my opinion to fix some of these problems is
-make hand of sac undiseplable or make it a shorter cool down with a less duration so it will take some skill to throw it up while getting cced.-make bubble 12 seconds again(not sure why they reduced it to 8seconds)
-Make our mastery somewhat useful other that just a trash debuff(not sure what they can do with this)
-Not sure how long priest aura mastery is but make ours longer that 6 seconds. 6 seconds is stupid easy to counter with all stuns lasting at least 3 and cool down stuns last 5 to 6


until then time to go ret [email protected]


I actually mentioned that first fix as a suggestion in the thread. You should read it and bump it.
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#19 nevercasts

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 10:55 PM

Post in damage dealing, they don't read arena.


Damage dealing or healing forums?
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#20 faction

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:23 PM

either works I think. Just most people seem to post pvp issues in damage dealing only.
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