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How to Fix Mages in Arena


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#81 Mageic

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:19 AM

View Postisabis, on 14 February 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

One thing I got to say about mages:
Deep freeze into Ring of Frost/Polymorph is OP. Needs a nerf.


#82 Droozyo

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:40 AM

Definitely agree with everything in there except for the cone of cold root. Make the root happen on one of those instead, couldn't care less which one. Or just make the root dispellable as well. And it might just be me, but having r1 frostbolt AND a 3stack winter chill like some in this thread is proposing is too much imo. either of those is fine, but both I think is too much, makes dispelling a poly so much rng.

#83 Xxlegolasxxz

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 08:52 AM

I agree, mechanics like WC were taken out for a reason. Adding WC to everything doesn't /fix/ ANYTHING. Sure, you have a cover for your poly, but all you're doing is adding RNG to the issue. The dispel system needs a complete reworking tbh.

#84 Watlok

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 03:22 PM

View Postisabis, on 14 February 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

One thing I got to say about mages:
Deep freeze into Ring of Frost/Polymorph is OP. Needs a nerf.
Get teammates and get good at dispelling/positioning.  The mage will never poly you in a df more than once per game again.   If your teammates are a dk and a hunter it should be zero times per game.  Due to the cooldowns of ways to stop the cast time there's just no way at all to create a window to do it if the other team is smart.  They'll let you cast non-df polys on not the healer rather than blowing their stop-poly load because you are just losing the gcd game by doing so.

Edited by Watlok, 15 February 2011 - 03:24 PM.


#85 Vilerose

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:48 PM

Quote

IMO, the way to really fix the problem is to make all control spells (snares, roots, ccs, stuns) share common diminishing returns per player until their next death/new arena instance - no waiting for diminishing returns to fall off. Dispels (offensive and defensive) share a common diminishing return per caster - after the third cast of your dispel, your dispels have 0% chance of successfully removing anything.
wow forums rofl

#86 Droozyo

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 05:15 PM

yea really cool idea, 3 cc's per game guys!

#87 Dawz

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 06:33 PM

View PostVilerose, on 15 February 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

wow forums rofl

Hahahaha, that was actually pretty fun.

#88 Phood

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 06:51 PM

s8 glad jk hydra
[15:22] chargester: if lich kings mount is invincible how come you can see it?

#89 Mageic

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 07:13 PM

View Postisabis, on 14 February 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

One thing I got to say about mages:Deep freeze into Ring of Frost/Polymorph is OP. Needs a nerf.


#90 Dxm

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 07:57 PM

View PostVilerose, on 13 February 2011 - 11:20 PM, said:


This hopefully will make it actually feel like time is less the enemy than it currently is; Rogue Preparation got the same treatment.


has anyone been as far as to go even more do look like? ...semicolon!



A+ post tho!
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#91 Bashel

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

Blizzard should seriously hire guys like you.
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Chillin' for the season.

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#92 Handsom

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 11:07 PM

This is a good post and a lot of these changes with a lil retuning would make things a bit better. Mages just aren't fun to play at all atm and arena in general is just terrible. Even with these changes arena as a whole would still be pretty lame.

#93 Dawz

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 12:14 AM

View PostPhood, on 15 February 2011 - 06:51 PM, said:

s8 glad jk hydra
sorry for off-topic, but just want to inform you that I left that team hydra played in so it's impossible i got the title cause of him :o

#94 faction

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Posted 16 February 2011 - 12:47 AM

View PostXxlegolasxxz, on 15 February 2011 - 08:52 AM, said:

I agree, mechanics like WC were taken out for a reason. Adding WC to everything doesn't /fix/ ANYTHING. Sure, you have a cover for your poly, but all you're doing is adding RNG to the issue. The dispel system needs a complete reworking tbh.

was the old RNG dispel system really so bad? I loved it compared to the cata model.
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#95 Alinnia

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 03:57 AM

Excellent thread. Highlights a lot of the issues in arena for mages in Cata (especially factors 3, 4 and 5). Now how to bring these issues and proposed solutions to Blizzard's attention.

#96 Fearmeh

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:09 PM

Is deep freeze into ring of frost that bad? If they somehow change it so that you can't do that anymore I have no idea how any mage will get a cc on a good druid

#97 Mageic

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Posted 17 February 2011 - 11:43 PM

View PostFearmeh, on 17 February 2011 - 11:09 PM, said:

Is deep freeze into ring of frost that bad? If they somehow change it so that you can't do that anymore I have no idea how any mage will get a cc on a good druid

Compeletly unavoidable CC that does not break on damage needs to be changed. Deep -> sheep can be locked out. Theres no other form of cc in the game that is that unavoidable. And after that you can imp cs for another 4 seconds or have one of your teammates can have 12 seconds to waddle over to the frozen target and cc out of it.

#98 Insomniac

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 05:26 AM

View PostMageic, on 17 February 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

Compeletly unavoidable CC that does not break on damage needs to be changed. Deep -> sheep can be locked out. Theres no other form of cc in the game that is that unavoidable.

??
Its a 2minute cooldown.
"No other that are unavoidable" lolwhat... instant hex, instant cyclone, blind, repentance, warrior fear, etc.
No idea what you are talking about.
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#99 Zom

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 07:03 AM

I kinda skipped over the thread since I just wanted to reply to viles post.  Heaps of good points, i don't think you need the change with CoC you just need to add it to the same DR as nova.  100% agree with the Shattered Barrier proc.

Quote

4) Add new ability to frost talent tree choice or frost talents that functions as a modified R1 Frostbolt:  .5sec cast, no cooldown, no damage or very very minimal damage; applies  debuff that snares the target. When used, the ability lowers the cast  time of the Mage's next Polymorph by .3sec, and when dispelled increases  the damage of the Mage's frostbolts by 20% for 10sec.

Iffy on that, but it depends on the power of the snare as .5 sec is nothing, the damage doesn't matter.  Also the fact that it buffs poly speed and damage if dispelled, which is heavily biased vs melee and completely useless vs ranged.  Maybe you can have it so that you can do this R1 frostbolt and it increases the damage of your next FB by like 10-20% type mechanic, has a weak snare, doesn't increase poly.  So you can get a flat damage buff on FB and rely on your team to CC instead of having to do it all (This also might make rmp with a pve tunnel vision rogue actually throw up some cc).  

Since patch I've noticed my healer is able to dispel a lot less due to the sheer damage of rmps etc where he's spending so much time spam healing / dodging cc's that dispelling / controlling the rogue (pretty much impossible since clone such a short distance / longish cast) is an afterthought, which means melee will just be sitting through more snares.

Also i don't know if this was brought up but just flat out remove impact stun, there's no reason for 2 range stuns at all, the sprint on blink is so good and a lot of mages underestimate it.  Agree with all the other ideas.

Also just a side note i find training a warlock is still far more effective then a mage since any healer just spam dispels vs locks and they have 0 pressure, atleast with mages you have the ludicrous a mount of novas for icelance to shatter.

#100 didorins

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Posted 18 February 2011 - 11:46 AM

View PostXandyn, on 14 February 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

gah.

You do realize that TBC was same as Cataclysm, but with less roots, 50% tongues and infinite pushback ?

Except the part where you get to use Skull of Gul'dan combined with other PvE gear to get some pretty fast frostbolts / polys.

Oh yea and no Deep Freeze.

Edited by didorins, 18 February 2011 - 11:47 AM.

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