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How to Fix Mages in Arena


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#61 Enimos

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 07:54 PM

View Postisabis, on 14 February 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

One thing I got to say about mages:
Deep freeze into Ring of Frost/Polymorph is OP. Needs a nerf.
Chaining CC is OP?
:lol:

#62 fant0m8

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:01 PM

View PostVilerose, on 14 February 2011 - 07:44 AM, said:

:huh:

Bloodlust Ladder Mage Rep

Shadowburn Ladder Mage Rep

And oh hey look, they're also 2nd in representation above 2600. Above even most of the healer classes. (And tied for 2nd on Shadowburn.)

I could go through all the other Battlegroups, but it would just be the same story.

Such a weak class, definitely needs buffs.

Edited by fant0m8, 14 February 2011 - 08:03 PM.

Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#63 Elraen

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:11 PM

View Postfant0m8, on 14 February 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

Bloodlust Ladder Mage Rep

Shadowburn Ladder Mage Rep

And oh hey look, they're also 2nd in representation above 2600. Above even most of the healer classes. (And tied for 2nd on Shadowburn.)

I could go through all the other Battlegroups, but it would just be the same story.

Such a weak class, definitely needs buffs.

Make sure you look at how many games on those teams the mages have actually played.

The typical "high end mage" response (ie-what Affix tells people in the DD forum) is that mages can't beat top tier comps-since they're only fighting lesser teams on their way up the ladder, and don't tend to fight the "good" comps that counter mages, mages are bad.

I'm not saying mages don't need some rebalancing-they most definitely do, and I'm glad my Vile liked my shattered barrier suggestion enough to include it in his post-but it's still to pretend mages can't compete right now.  The playstyle may suck, but that doesn't make the class bad.  They could definitely use some adjusting to improve both the ability to melee to legitimately target them AND to reward them for actually stopping and casting.

Edited by Elraen, 14 February 2011 - 08:13 PM.

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#64 Gowan

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:12 PM

View PostGrillor, on 14 February 2011 - 04:50 PM, said:

Mages are the worst class in arenas right now

.... :warrior: and from experience mages are fine like they were fine before the patch i mean when u have multiple rank 1 viable comps how can u possibly be the worst class in arena give me a break

#65 fant0m8

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:16 PM

View PostElraen, on 14 February 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

Make sure you look at how many games on those teams the mages have actually played.

That ladder filter automatically excludes players with 0 or 1000 PR. It only counts if the player has one of the 3 highest PRs on the team (and games played).

And EVERY class has people that are on the team but don't play. There is no reason to assume that this would affect representation of the mage class in particular. If anything, low represented classes are MORE likely to be "benched" due to not being as viable as the highest represented classes (like mages).

That is obviously a factor, but it is a factor for everyone, and thus can be ignored. Basic statistics.

Edited by fant0m8, 14 February 2011 - 08:16 PM.

Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#66 MalliseCraze

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 08:18 PM

class representation is a dumb arguing point when it comes to class balance

#67 inhume

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:01 PM

how the hell else would you balance besides actual facts? the facts prove that mage's ladder well and are a good class. mage opinion is that they are a bad class and they severely out play their opponents meanwhile they probably have the most tools of any class in the game.

Edited by inhume, 14 February 2011 - 09:01 PM.


#68 MalliseCraze

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:09 PM

Ladder doesn't prove shit. Example: Prot warriors s7-8, like 2 in top 100 but unkillable and did more dmg than most classes

#69 isabis

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:18 PM

View PostEnimos, on 14 February 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

Chaining CC is OP?
:lol:
Instant cast 5sec CC which doesn't share DR with any other CC is OP.

#70 Thunderace

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:21 PM

Indeed mages need a buff of some sort.

#71 stazzy

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:42 PM

View PostGrillor, on 14 February 2011 - 04:50 PM, said:

Mages are the worst class in arenas right now.

lol not even close!

#72 stazzy

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:46 PM

View PostMalliseCraze, on 14 February 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

Ladder doesn't prove shit. Example: Prot warriors s7-8, like 2 in top 100 but unkillable and did more dmg than most classes

i agree with this, but in no way do ladders say that mages are the worst class right now, quite the contrary.

#73 lucrativex

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:48 PM

brb killing thread by moving it to theorycrafting section
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#74 oklolz

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 09:54 PM

OR....just make ice armor do something.

#75 MalliseCraze

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 10:51 PM

Quote

i agree with this, but in no way do ladders say that mages are the worst class right now, quite the contrary.

I don't think they're the worst class or that they haven't been retarded to play before but they're hurting pbad

#76 Styfez

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 11:12 PM

View PostMalliseCraze, on 14 February 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

Ladder doesn't prove shit. Example: Prot warriors s7-8, like 2 in top 100 but unkillable and did more dmg than most classes

Ladder does prove shit. Take for instance hunters on the ladder. They are almost not even represented at all, which means there is a clear problem with their class.

Taking examples of PvE hero Warriors in s7/8 who had literally BiS heroic ARP gear is a pretty poor argument to make here.

Season 5 DK's had high rep, was there no problem with that class too then by your logic?

#77 Bloobungle

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 12:45 AM

I'm confused as to why many of you are arguing about class representation in a post that is designed to get some feedback and input on the frost mage situation in arena. Sure, frost is strong. It also has several flaws that make us either incredibly good or incredibly bad depending on the game.

Perhaps it would help to picture yourself in a 3vs3 with a frost mage on the opposing team. Even for myself, I feel like it is a constant bombardment of instant novas and ice lances - all of which I can do little to nothing to prevent. The only other pressure that I am remotely worried about is a chaining of CC.

So why exactly is there a lack of a reward for landing a frostbolt? If anything, it only promotes the further use of ice lance (fingers of frost proc) and the nova nova nova spam that everyone is sick of.

Dispel protection on the other hand is an issue every class is dealing with. It's way too easy to dispel anything and not think twice about it. I'm not sure if the proposed changes would fix anything, but it would certainly help.

#78 Xessi

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 03:11 AM

View PostStyfez, on 14 February 2011 - 11:12 PM, said:

Ladder does prove shit. Take for instance hunters on the ladder. They are almost not even represented at all, which means there is a clear problem with their class.

Taking examples of PvE hero Warriors in s7/8 who had literally BiS heroic ARP gear is a pretty poor argument to make here.

Season 5 DK's had high rep, was there no problem with that class too then by your logic?

Hunters have always had a bad class representation, even in s3/4 when they were gods combined with a resto druid and using the ladder to check if a class is over/underpowered 1 week after the patch is silly as most mages are just sitting on their rating.

Just taking a look at a couple of teams from the ladders someone linked:

Mage: 0 games played this week
http://us.battle.net...ius/3v3/dude/  
http://us.battle.net...jk soulswappin/
http://us.battle.net...big dik gaming/
http://us.battle.net...making enemies/
(Just noticed this team actually went 0-6 lol)

Could go on like this all day

I only see a couple of RMPs just because of the synergy those 3 classes have and SP/Mage/Druid which is
more of a comp imbalance than class imbalance.

Anyway, mages aren't asking for buffs, just for some fixes/changes to the class because we're in a retarded state atm: Ice Lance spam and frostbolt doing no damage, no dispel protection etc etc

Edited by Xessi, 15 February 2011 - 03:12 AM.

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#79 Opto

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 03:31 AM

I ran recount against PHD over 2 arenas... 56%-icelance 22.9%-CoC 8.8%-frost nova and an amazing 4.1% Frostbolt. Can't cast when you're being trained.. maybe some type of aura mastery? Just a thought..But it would prolly be to OP to peel melee off

#80 oklolz

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 04:34 AM

Adding another aura mastery is the wrong way to go about things, we need less mechanics like those in this game. I really just think pushback removal from the game would basically fix the mage problem, or at least of all cc's.
Pushback is one thing most people don't think about, even though a few mages spec into the actual talent most do not.




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