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Priests and Arena in 4.0.6


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#1 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:15 PM

PvPriests got some MAJOR changes this patch that finally will be bringing back Discipline Priests to arena while a few solid buffs for Shadow and Holy as well. Although I mainly play Shadow, I have talked to Sodah, Toez, and Shouri here and there about their thoughts on specs and the viability of the healer specs in arena. This will be fairly longer than the other guides simply because Priests received a lot of goodies this patch. Enjoy!


Changes affecting Priests heavily:

General:
Heroism, Bloodlust, etc can no longer can used in arena.
This does hurt priests who like to play with mages, but overall this is a buff to priests anyway.

PvP trinkets will now clear disarm and silence effects.
A very nice change for the game, although it does hurt Spriests a bit I really don't mind as I've always wanted this in the game. Keep in mind you cannot trinket lockouts, still.
The PvP priest 4-piece set bonus has been redesigned. When Power Word: Shield is cast on the priest, movement speed reduction effects are temporally suppressed for 4 seconds.
Regardless of spec, all Priests should be going after this. Sadly, this is only on the Mooncloth set. Spriests who are indecisive about this... you can Shield out of Desecration (which will be all over the place now), then Fade the debuff off once your out and be immune to snares for a really long time.

:druid:

Barkskin is no longer dispellable.

Druids can correctly cast Barkskin while silenced.
I welcome this the first change with open arms although I am questionable as to the second one. Either way druids needed more survivability vs Spriests and this is the way they are getting it.

Discipline:

The mana cost of Power Word: Shield has been increased by approximately 31%, but its effect has been increased by 208%.
Who cares about the mana cost! 18k as Shadow and 23-25k as Discipline, up from 7k and 11k. I personally used the spell once every few games because of how awful and insignificant it had become.
Focused Will now procs when the priest is critically hit, in addition to its current effect.
When you're being trained you will constantly take 20% less damage with this. Another reason to go Disc over Holy.
Grace is no longer limited to one target at a time.
Not a huge buff, but if you can keep it rolling on two targets you will find keeping people alive is much easier.
Penance mana cost has been increased by 7%, but healing has been increased by 20%.
Although the cast time makes the spell unappealing, it still heals for much more than Flash Heal. This should also be used to stack Grace for both increased healing and dispel protection.
Strength of Soul now occurs when the priest casts Inner Focus on oneself, rather than Power Word: Shield. In addition, Strength of Soul now also causes the priest to become immune to silence, interrupt, and dispel effects for 2/4 seconds after using Inner Focus.
One of the biggest buffs. You don't need to actually consume it for it to be used, but be aware the cooldown doesn't start until it's cancelled. You can get off many different combinations of spells with this.
1. Gheal --> Flash Heal --> Flash Heal (requires Borrowed Time)
2. Gheal --> Gheal
3. Penance --> Gheal *--> Flash Heal* (need PI or other haste buffs to get the flash off)

Also, there has been two bugs to be aware of with Inner Focus. First, if you cast a Flash/Gheal while spamming Inner Focus it will consume itself without doing anything. Second, the cooldown tooltip does not properly register sometimes (will post reasoning if I find out).

Holy:

Desperate Prayer now heals the priest for 30% of their total health, up from a very subpar value.
With full stack Grace up you can easily get a 40k Desperate Prayer. Up from like 5k.
Binding Heal, Flash Heal, Greater Heal can now trigger Chakra: Serenity.
For those of you interested in Holy, you no longer have to cast a 2.5 sec cast while your partners are dying to do more healing.
Surge of Light can now also proc from Flash Heal and Greater Heal, and can now also critically hit.
Although I will still not get the talent, this buff will definitely make a good choice in PvP if you are having mana issues and slightly helps with survivability.
Glyph of Spirit of Redemption has been converted into Glyph of Prayer of Mending, which increases the healing done by the first charge of Prayer of Mending by 60%.
This is now the only major that directly increases healing. I'll talk more about the best glyphs later. It brings PoM from ~5-6k to ~8-9k
Glyph of Pain Suppression has been renamed Glyph of Desperation and now allows Guardian Spirit to be cast while stunned, in addition to Pain Suppression.
Kinda cool when you're getting trained I suppose. Doubt many will be playing Holy, though.



Shadow:

Shadow Orbs benefit from mastery has been increased by approximately 16%.
Can't complain about more damage.
Glyph of Mind Flay no longer requires Shadow Word: Pain to be on the target.
Even with this change I don't recommend this glyph. If your target doesn't have SW:Pain, then why are you Mind Flaying anyway? The answer to this is to stack up Evangelism and you are certainly not trying to kill someone with the really low DPS Mind Flay has by itself. Again, I'll go over glyphs later.
Glyph of Psychic Horror now reduces the cooldown of Psychic Horror by 30 seconds, down from 60.
I agree with this change. One minute was way too good. Many times I found myself just saying "screw it disarm fearing this guy", because it was up every other Psychic Scream.
Mind Blast now does 18% more damage than Mind Spike.
I'll toss out some numbers here. On players, Mind Blast was noncritting for 4-5k and critting for 8-10k. Mind Spike currently hits for 7-10k and crits for 14-20k. Mind Blast now hits for 8-12k and crits for 16-24k. With 3 orbs I had a Mind Blast crit a dummy for 60898 in PvP gear. Keep in mind the differences in damage are huge because of trinkets and Archangel.

Bug Fixes:
Sin and Punishment is now working correctly again.
You can now Dispersion while mounted once again.
You now gain mana back from Masochism even when the damage taken is absorbed.


:shaman:

Earth Shield can no longer be dispelled.
This is a buff to Priests, period. The only reason it could be considerred a nerf is if you can CC the Shaman for a long time and strip Earth Shield off someone and kill them. Still, it is now possible to get Earthliving, Riptide, and other buffs off much quicker with this change.
Purge now dispels a single effect instead of two.
Previously, Enhancement and Resto teams completely raped healy Priests by chasing them around and spamming Purge. This is huge.
Tremor Totem has been redesigned. The totem is now usable under Fear, Charm, or Sleep effects, and pulses much more rapidly, but lasts 6 seconds and has a 1-minute cooldown.
This is overall a slight buff to Priests, but just a better change to the game. You can now get a dependable Fear on a Shaman every other one, but more importantly you can choose to Fear his partners and they have to make a choice instead of just dropping a new one.

Yes I know there are other changes, but if you wanted a list of all the changes you wouldn't be reading this!

Discipline: Glyphs, Talents, Stats, and Comps

Prime:

Glyph of Power Word: Shield
It heals for 5k and procs Divine Aegis. You have to get this.
Glyph of Penance
You will use Penance a lot. Additionally, the other prime glyphs suck so get this one.
Choice between:
Glyph of Shadow Word: Death
My choice. Help your team get kills!
Glyph of Power Word: Barrier
I could see this getting some use, but really if you are using this spell odds are 10% healing won't make or break you.

Major:

Glyph of Desperation (Pain Suppression)

Can't go into PvP without it.
Glyph of Mass Dispel
The other choices are nowhere near as good as being able to break bubbles, blocks, and drinks instantly.
Choice between:
Glyph of Prayer of Mending
My choice. Chances are this could actually save someone from dying.
Glyph of Dispel Magic
This will do much more overall healing against a wizardcleave than PoM would, but I really doubt it will save someone from death very often.

Talents:
http://wowtal.com/#k...p_d.aei.priest.
This is the best overall spec I can make. I spoke to each of the top priests for awhile about talents. One was really into Veiled Shadows and Surge of Light where others liked this setup.
I'll go over what I think of some of the talents so you understand the choices made.
Twin Disciplines 3/3:
I was surprised to see some people not get this talent. Although it is not a burst healing talent, 2% healing per talent is very affordable even with the disc spec having so many good talents.
Smite Spam Talents 0/5:
You will not use Smite in PvP again. Mind Spike and Mind Blast can go where your Smite and Holy Fire binds were. They are out of your tree and do almost twice the damage with a lower cast time.
Train of Thought 0/2:
Although I really like this talent, there's just not even points to spend on it. You could take points out of Inner Sanctum and Empowered Healing for it in the future, but those talents are tough to give up. Really depends on the comp you're running and what you're having trouble against.
Divine Fury 3/3:
You will be using Gheal very often and Heal can even be used sometimes to keep Grace stacks up on multiple targets. A must have.
Empowered Healing 3/3:
Looking at Recount after a few games the healing from this talent is not as impressive as you'd think, but you need it to get down the tree anyway.
Surge of Light 0/2:
With the major buffs to the talent, this talent is definitely PvP viable. However, the talent will only proc 2-3 times a game and I just don't see it being that useful anyway. If you recently landed a Gheal or Flash Heal on someone chances are they are close to topped already with Grace stacks or Inspiration and you also have another PW:S coming soon. Too RNG for me.
0/3 Darkness:
This talent would be nice to have, but again not enough points.
0/2 Veiled Shadows:
Fights generally last 2-3 minutes. The chances of Shadowfiend coming back up multiple times in one match means you are probably running on fumes and low on cooldowns anyway compared to other healers. Maybe grab this talent for double healer or if you are having late game mana issues.

Stats:
http://chardev.org/?profile=43853
For trinkets you should get a Darkmoon Card: Tsunami or Core of Ripeness (1650 Valor points is very easy to get if the card is not affordable). You can also use the On Use spellpower trinket if you want. Regarding Hit Rating, I don't feel it's worth sacrificing 410 stats to be hit capped, but it's really up to you.
I was very surprised to hear all 3 Priests I talked to say they were going to go Intellect --> Resilience --> Spirit --> Mastery --> Crit/Haste. Even with the ability to dispel Shields, the Priest Mastery is just so strong that it has to be the stat. As much as everyone loves Crit and Haste, you can barely get above 10% of either anyway. Obviously Spirit is first. If you think you're going to run around with 14 Mastery and keep everyone up for more than a couple minutes you've got another thing coming.

Comps to run:
#1 :priest: :paladin: :hunter: (Ret)
#2 :priest: :paladin: :rogue: (Ret)
#3 :priest: :druid: :deathknight: (Resto, but don't play this please.)
#4 :priest: :warlock: :hunter: / :paladin: (Ret)
#5 :priest: :mage: :rogue:
#6 :priest: :mage: :warlock:
#7 :priest: :druid: :rogue: (Feral)
#8 :priest: :warrior: :deathknight:
I'm sure there's others, but that's what I've seen/expecting to see.

Not going to go over Holy because I specced into the tree once in the past 5 years. I hated it (it was a few weeks ago), so yeah sorry if you're a diehard Holy Priest.

Shadow: Glyphs, Talents, Stats, and Comps

Prime:
Glyph of Dispersion
This is the best glyph. More Dispersions is more living and more mana!
Glyph of Shadow Word: Death
Kind of broken, tbh. SW:Death hits for 10-12k and crits for 20-24k below 25%. Almost guarenteed death.
Choice between:
Glyph of Shadow Word: Pain
My choice. Shadow Word: Pain is your #1 damaging spell while being trained and your second highest while freecasting. It's an overall damage boost of 2-3% with just a glyph.
Glyph of Mind Flay
I've seen some people grab this, but tbh it really is awful. SW:Pain is better 90% of the time simply because it does more damage. The only time this one is doing "more damage" is when you have all your dots on a target and you are flaying away. Chances are, you won't be using flay more than a couple times on that dying target anyway without using Mind Blast, Dispel, Shield, Fade, Silence, or SW:Death.

Major:
Glyph of Psychic Horror
Even with the nerf, you want this glyph. Psychic Horror will help you land kills and this syncs up pretty well with every other Silence.
Glyph of Fade
This is such an awesome glyph. When I play without it and I'm getting trained it really sucks. The 4-piece change makes it slightly less amazing, but it's still the second best glyph.
Choice between:
Glyph of Psychic Scream
I think out of all the questions I have gotten in this expansion... this glyph has been the topic of most. Many thought it was some sort of joke or something. This is pretty much my favorite glyph in the game actually and I'll give a thorough explanation of why I use it. First of all, my main comp before this patch was Spriest Mage Druid. I play it on Ruin with Vileroze and Shouri and on Bloodlust with Pookz and Drmayoyo. All 4 players said the glyph was good when I asked them what they thought. Without a video (maybe another time), it'd be hard to demonstrate, but basically it is used as a starting setup for kills. I could fear a Druid and strip him and also get full dots with him guarenteed staying in a single place for the entire duration. This allowed my partners to also get right on top of them and line that fear up with a Deep Freeze into Silence into Disarm and kill them (without needing Time Warp) every single time. Turned off by the cooldown increase? I never notice it at all. I've missed so many opportunities to kill players in the past (Spriest Mage Shaman / Spriest Ele Druid in WotLK) because fear pathed them in the dumbest direction. That never happens anymore.
In short, I get the glyph in only a select few comps where Psychic Scream is used to setup a kill on the player I'm fearing. Reliability is the main reason for the glyph.
Glyph of Mass Dispel
My choice when not with a Mage. Killing Paladins is a joke with this glyph, and being able to break block without getting interupted too is very nice.
Glyph of Prayer of Mending
Although many of you will not use this, Prayer of Mending is the most mana efficient and best heal in the game. Priests are also the strongest hybrid healer with Shield being 18k and infinite mana with proper CD management. Against teams where your 2 or more players from your team are dying (DKs/Locks) you really should be using PoM to help your healer out. It does 25k healing in seconds for very low mana cost. I would only use this glyph if you know you aren't going to fight a Mage/Pally.
Glyph of Dispel Magic
Against teams with warlocks and mages this glyph is actually very nice to have. When your healer is being focused you can shield and dispel them for 3-4k heals without actually having to heal.

Talents:
http://wowtal.com/#k...pbQ.aei.priest.
This is the spec I will use for this patch regardless of composition.
Talent choice reasioning:
Improved SW:Pain 0/2:
Although I really want this talent as it's just raw damage, almost all of the other choices are necessary for Shadow to even do well.
Improved Mind Blast 0/3: Even with the buffed damage to Mind Blast, you still won't be using it often enough for the cooldown to matter. The biggest loss is having to do 1 additional Mind Spike before Mind Blast comes back up, but again the other talents are too strong to get this.
Twisted Faith 2/2:
2% more damage and OOC regen. This does more overall damage and has more use than Improved SW:Pain. The mooncloth set with the supression bonus comes with spirit on a couple pieces anyway.
Harnessed Shadows 1/2: 2/2 in this talent would be pretty cool, but similar to the old Martyrdom you really only need 1 point for it to be very useful. If there's someone attacking you chances are you will have 3 orbs very quickly.
Paralysis 2/2:
This talent took quite a huge hit with the patch, but it's still really good. It appears to DR with other roots and with itself. It also is ignored by Death's Advance (bug), as it is a 99.99% slow. The reason to get this is to keep your target in place when you are spike/blast spamming. Trust me if you aren't getting this you are missing out.
Shadowy Apparition 3/3:
I've actually seen quite a few players not get this talent and that just puzzles me. This talent actually does insane amounts of damage (7-12% of my damage done per match) and is really annoying for other players to see 4 apparitions constantly running around. This has much more use in PvP than PvE simply because you are constantly moving. This also does huge burst and unnoticed burst. Worried about them getting killed? That player is wasting their time, seriously. A pretty cool trick with this is you can run away from a target chasing you (melee class) with SW:Pain up and they will take so much damage they won't even know what it's from.
Sin and Punishment 2/2:
Although it has been bugged and kind of silly from time to time it's still a good talent. Even when it DR'd with fear you could easily spam Mind Flay when your Shadowfiend is almost up when nothing is going on.
Improved Power Word: Shield 2/2 over Mental Agility 2/3:
If you are a super aggressive all-in kill 'em now player you really shouldn't get this (more mana = more chance to kill em!), but then again why are you playing a Spriest if that's how you want to play. This bring PW:S from 14.5k to 18k for me. Mental agility 2/3 probably saves you 4-5% mana over the course of a game.

Stats:
Intellect --> Resilience --> Haste --> Mastery/Crit
http://chardev.org/?profile=40639
I made a chardev of the best set with full gear. Yeah I know you guys love your haste, but resilience is an amazing stat and people really should be training Spriests with all the utility they bring. In the end it's like 100 haste or 100 resil if you don't like the gems. Also, I get the spell pen enchant to cloak so that warlocks with MotW/Shadow Prot do not get a pet resist on a fear at the start of a game. Mages obviously also have 240 at times. Sounds kind of silly to do that, but I've lost too many amazing openers due to a small little resist.

Comps to run:
#1 :priest: :rogue: :druid:
#2 :priest: :deathknight: :druid:
#3 :priest: :warlock: :druid:
#4 :priest: :mage: :druid:
#5 :priest: :warlock: :shaman:
#6 :priest: :mage: :shaman:
#7 :priest: :mage: :rogue:
#8 :priest: :warrior: :druid:

Overall thoughts of changes:

Discipline is slightly overbuffed.
-Desperate Prayer should not stack with Grace for 50k+ heals.
-Power Word: Shield absorbs too much in PvP/PvE for all specs.
-Grace should be undispellable. With Earth Shield changed, this is the only constantly occurring buff that interferes with dispels.
-Inner Focus and Power Word: Barrier have interesting uses in PvP

Shadow's benefit from Discipline buffs makes them slightly too good as well
-Teamates never die with Spriest on team. (18k PW:Shield and double defensive dispel)
-Mind Spike/Mind Blast combo hits slightly too hard. (at least 30k damage in one second.. possibility of 40k)

The verdict:
If you are in the world of Priests right now you are the god class along with DKs and Rets. I wouldn't go as far as way overpowered, but really strong like Season 6 Discipline. With all the other changes to other classes, Priests will have lots of fun in arena right now. If you have any questions, comments, or corrections feel free to list them here. If you have further non-related questions please PM me here and not in-game. Thank you and hope you enjoyed!

Updated to include Discipline/Shadow Chardev with correct enchants.

Edited by Talbadar, 23 February 2011 - 09:59 PM.


#2 Haks

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:17 PM

Wow, a little later than most, but more than making up for it in content, thanks for helping us understand what changed for you.  +1

#3 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:23 PM

View PostHaks, on 10 February 2011 - 09:17 PM, said:

Wow, a little later than most, but more than making up for it in content, thanks for helping us understand what changed for you.  +1
Ah, sorry. I was only notified that there wasn't a Priest guide a couple days ago.

#4 Haks

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 10 February 2011 - 09:23 PM, said:

Ah, sorry. I was only notified that there wasn't a Priest guide a couple days ago.

Seriously, that was a compliment and a thanks, not a rebuke, I just figured we weren't getting one at this point.  Thanks again.

#5 Prankss

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:30 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 10 February 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:


#3 :priest: :druid: :deathknight: (Resto, but don't play this please.)


I lol'd

#6 Absoqt

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:37 PM

Nice!
Gooby pls

#7 Calx

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:39 PM

nice guide.  i didnt even notice there wasnt a priest guide before until someone else pointed it out recently

#8 Barisizzle

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:44 PM

Najs guide mejt
A wise man once told me...

#9 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:45 PM

View PostCalx, on 10 February 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

nice guide.  i didnt even notice there wasnt a priest guide before until someone else pointed it out recently

I think Lolflay made one, but it looked like slapdash

#10 wuzgood

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:53 PM

Desperate Prayer shud indeed not stack with grace or anything similar and hsud be incapable of critical hit.
Secondly i dont think Shields are overbuffed but rather Strenght Of Soul is.

Edited by wuzgood, 10 February 2011 - 09:54 PM.


#11 Absoqt

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 09:59 PM

View Postwuzgood, on 10 February 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

Desperate Prayer shud indeed not stack with grace or anything similar and hsud be incapable of critical hit.
Secondly i dont think Shields are overbuffed but rather Strenght Of Soul is.

35k (shield+glyph+crit) are not normal. I'd rather have them remove the glyph than change SoS, as it's at least a fun new talent.
Gooby pls

#12 Yukanoduka

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:03 PM

be more specific about shields, I don't want blizz getting the wrong idea and making unnecessary nerfs.

Shields are not too strong. 10k shields before the patch were unnoticeable and got 1 shot by white hits. A 24k shield is perfectly within reason.

IF there's something overpowered, it's either with the glyph as the above poster mentioned, or it's with flash heal getting the full 2 second reduction of weakened soul.  Reduce the flash heal reduction to 1 second and/or rebalance the glyph


Do not mess with the current level of shield. It's in a very good place.


EDIT: and another issue about the strength of shadow shields.... perhaps nerf shields but buff disc mastery scaling so that shields stay the same for disc but are less for holy/shadow?

Edited by Yukanoduka, 10 February 2011 - 10:05 PM.

:priest: Pokett - Tichondrius

#13 Calx

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:03 PM

strength of soul is nice but overpowered in its current inception

i think a longer duration and longer cd would be good.  something like 8sec duration, 60-90sec cd

also sticky plz

#14 berserker

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:04 PM

good stuff
Posted Image

#15 Lolflay

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:06 PM

View PostTalbadar, on 10 February 2011 - 09:45 PM, said:

I think Lolflay made one, but it looked like slapdash

aye, I just made it in a hurry cause rapture needed one asap, took me about 10-15 mins

gj on this

Quote

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms

#16 Absoqt

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:08 PM

View PostYukanoduka, on 10 February 2011 - 10:03 PM, said:

be more specific about shields, I don't want blizz getting the wrong idea and making unnecessary nerfs.

Shields are not too strong. 10k shields before the patch were unnoticeable and got 1 shot by white hits. A 24k shield is perfectly within reason.

IF there's something overpowered, it's either with the glyph as the above poster mentioned, or it's with flash heal getting the full 2 second reduction of weakened soul.  Reduce the flash heal reduction to 1 second and/or rebalance the glyph


Do not mess with the current level of shield. It's in a very good place.


EDIT: and another issue about the strength of shadow shields.... perhaps nerf shields but buff disc mastery scaling so that shields stay the same for disc but are less for holy/shadow?

I have a feeling most of you are ignoring the fact that glyph of shield is almost 5k NON crit, more if it crits PLUS Aegis. This might be too much.

Edited by Absolewt, 10 February 2011 - 10:10 PM.

Gooby pls

#17 Yukanoduka

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:13 PM

View PostAbsolewt, on 10 February 2011 - 10:08 PM, said:

I have a feeling most of you are ignoring the fact that glyph of shield is almost 5k NON crit, more if it crits PLUS Aegis. This might be too much.


i mentioned rebalancing the glyph as an option

O_o?
:priest: Pokett - Tichondrius

#18 Lolflay

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:17 PM

although... you don't even list dispel magic as a viable glyph for shadow, really ? :rolleyes:

half of time what you're doing is bloody dispelling, 3% hp whenever you dispel someone is INSANE. Although I have to admit that I've been using psy scream glyph at the start and it's pretty good for the exact purpose you've said. But then again, nothing like scream sending someone into the open

Edited by Lolflay, 10 February 2011 - 10:20 PM.

Quote

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms

#19 Guest_Talbadar_*

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:18 PM

View PostLolflay, on 10 February 2011 - 10:17 PM, said:

although... you don't even list dispel magic as a viable glyph for shadow, really ? :rolleyes:

half of time what you're doing is bloody dispelling, 3% hp whenever you dispel someone is INSANE.
true good mention :)

#20 Lolflay

Lolflay
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Posted 10 February 2011 - 10:34 PM

did anyone actually try shadow affli resto dru btw

Quote

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms




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