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17k Shatters thank you blizz


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#21 shazamloll

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 06:47 PM

Even tho i dont like tyumbra i agree with how horrible mages are and im not even going to run arena untill they fix our damage i dont even break priests bubbles its so amazing i feel like a hunter did before patch
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#22 Pinlol

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 06:50 PM

Problem is look at how much time hunters waited for a fix... And knowing blizzard they don't exactly love mages all that much (biggest buff this exp so far was a brainless icelance spamming spec). Sadly i'm not expecting much
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#23 shazamloll

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 06:53 PM

Problem is look at how much time hunters waited for a fix... And knowing blizzard they don't exactly love mages all that much (biggest buff this exp so far was a brainless icelance spamming spec). Sadly i'm not expecting much


Neither am i, if they do fix them it wont be for awhile thats why i started leveling a dk :D
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#24 Enjoy

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Posted 09 February 2011 - 07:43 PM

Lol wtf? I barely noticed a damage difference, before patch my frostbolt was hitting for 34k on dummies... now i'm getting over 40k with both trinkets popped, haste is even better now, other classes (with the exception of DKs) got pretty significant nerfs..

I'm not sure what the problem is here, with the exception of the countless new bugs that arose from the patch.
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#25 Tyumbra

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:42 AM

Lol wtf? I barely noticed a damage difference, before patch my frostbolt was hitting for 34k on dummies... now i'm getting over 40k with both trinkets popped, haste is even better now, other classes (with the exception of DKs) got pretty significant nerfs..

I'm not sure what the problem is here, with the exception of the countless new bugs that arose from the patch.


It's not that our damage is less, it's that our burst is less. This is a bad thing because we have no incentive to cast Frostbolts for any period of time due to almost every class now having an interrupt (Priests are the only class without an interrupt) and us not having any haste.

For the most part, Frostbolts were only being tossed out when we had both IV/Hero up, or if EF was up. That's not to say Frostbolt was useless, but the risk vs. reward wasn't even remotely close to the same. Why hardcast a Frostbolt where there is a very good chance your target will go LOS or you'll be interrupted when you could just spam Icelance for nearly the same amount of damage and being slowed only by your GCD?
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#26 lucrativex

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:53 AM

Ya but ice lance hits so hard....right? right?


fuck
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#27 Nyhx-_-x

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 02:02 AM

Running fire in ratedBGs. Frost is just hilarious x)
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#28 Synexus

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 03:46 AM

feels like s8 but without the haste, r1 frostbolts and winters chill.
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#29 Tyumbra

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:14 AM

I feel like there aren't really a lot of options right now. I'm debating just taking the resilience hit and regearing/regemming and sitting at 17.5%~ crit and 11%~ haste. I'd be at 2950 resil, which just might be close enough to be fine. I don't think 6% extra damage reduction is going to make much of a difference against 86k bursted crits.
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#30 Pownmeisterz

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 04:25 AM

I feel like there aren't really a lot of options right now. I'm debating just taking the resilience hit and regearing/regemming and sitting at 17.5%~ crit and 11%~ haste. I'd be at 2950 resil, which just might be close enough to be fine. I don't think 6% extra damage reduction is going to make much of a difference against 86k bursted crits.


Resilience scales linearly, but the amount of survivability you gain is exponential. You'll gain way more benefit the closer you get to 100%. To prove this concept, look at both extremes of resilience levels. On one end, you have 0-1% gain, and on the near invulnerable end, you're going from 98-99%.

On the squishier side, you have increased your survivability by 1%. You were initially taking 100% damage, but now you take 99% damage.
On the sturdier side, you have increased your survivability by 100%. You were initially taking 2% damage, but now you take 1% damage.

That example is very extreme, but a large number like 6% is enormous for increasing your chance of survival against "86k bursts"
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#31 Grillor

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:08 AM

Resilience scales linearly, but the amount of survivability you gain is exponential. You'll gain way more benefit the closer you get to 100%. To prove this concept, look at both extremes of resilience levels. On one end, you have 0-1% gain, and on the near invulnerable end, you're going from 98-99%.

On the squishier side, you have increased your survivability by 1%. You were initially taking 100% damage, but now you take 99% damage.
On the sturdier side, you have increased your survivability by 100%. You were initially taking 2% damage, but now you take 1% damage.

That example is very extreme, but a large number like 6% is enormous for increasing your chance of survival against "86k bursts"


Thank god some people actually understand this. +1
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#32 Tyumbra

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:59 AM

I understand it entirely. I know Resilience is still our best stat. However, an 11-12% gain in Haste for a 2% loss of crit, and a 2.84% loss in Resil is sounding very worthwhile.

Or they could just change Shatter to how it used to be so we could stack Haste and then I wouldn't have to worry about that.
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#33 Niglies

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:54 PM

RMP is still rank 1 viable which means I'm almost positive hunter/mage is still going to be rank 1 viable. Mages aren't able to play mage/priest anymore sure but it really isn't that much a huge deal.. if we're able to play successfully two vastly different comps there isn't much to complain about. Except double dispell, that shit is broken as hell.
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#34 Adelise

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 12:58 PM

This thread makes me smile
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I can honestly do nothing but laugh at you if you think that mages are super strong on the highest level of play.


#35 Lolflay

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:07 PM

This thread makes me smile


yup cause you thought mages were super overpowered pre 4.0.6 and that they got what was coming for them in this patch :rolleyes: , right ?

you're a great guy ( outside of the ragelise escapades :P ), don't be so ignorant just because a mage can fuck up inexperienced teams so much - them not having winter's chill and r1 frostbolt to protect poly ( and having a absurdly high cast time on it as well, compared to s8 ) is equivalent of dispersion/pain suppression being dispellable, their only way to dish out important CC while being trained is pretty much ring of frost, and in current low haste environment, especially with shatter getting nerfed now, their only way to dish out damage is by casting 2+ sec frostbolts, which while being trained, is KINDA hard you know - not to say I'm defending 20k instant icelances, that shit was dumb as fuck, but they need some kind of way to deal damage when every single class in the game has a bloody interrupt, now including your favorite friends holy paladins as well

and if melee can't stick on mage and train him, they should find a new healer who knows what his dispel button is, as honestly, as a priest who played melee/caster/healer entirely until s8 when I was forced to wizcleave ( I would've kept RPSing had it not been for other wizardcleaving faggots ), I've learned to save globals to dispel novas, both as shadow and as disc, as it's something that's highest on the priority list ( unless you really need to keep something alive, aka it's like near dead ) - so the whole comment about dispelling mage shit in style of quality sarcasm "yeah you know we always dispel all time, we dont heal or do anything else" is really invalid when a skilled healer will always know what's important to do at given time and what's not


mages will continue to work in shatterplay, probably RMP and few other select comps like MLD etc etc, they're not absurdly nerfed this patch as a skilled mage will still be able to dish out the needed control while his partner does most of damage and lets the mage just do damage when needed, but to say that it feels like a finished class, it really does not.

it's the same scenario as with warriors really, warriors needed damage nerfs, they got their damage buffed and mobility nerfed ( rofl ) - on other hand, mages needed a efficient way to allow them to cast in arena, while appropriately reducing their damage - in this patch, all they got was nerfs and no quality of life improvements at all ( except the motherfucking retarded invisibility cloaking the pet as well, n1 )


( im not biased at all btw, I really actually did take some time to learn about mage issues as they were the highest skillcap class alongside warlocks and rogues throughout pretty much entire lifespan of the game, and some of stuff they got going on is equally retarded to shadowpriest dots not having adequate dispel protection and blizzard nerfing UA when it's already being dispelled by everyone and his mother )

Edited by Lolflay, 10 February 2011 - 01:20 PM.

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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#36 Lolflay

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:18 PM

long post, I know, but I would read it, as it's quality material in my honest opinion.

and I'll just add, that it's funny that warlocks can have 1.2 sec cast fears atm while mages gotta hardcast their shit pretty long ( I know from firsthand experience, I play a warlock as a alt )

Edited by Lolflay, 10 February 2011 - 01:22 PM.

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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#37 Grillor

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:08 PM

yup cause you thought mages were super overpowered pre 4.0.6 and that they got what was coming for them in this patch :rolleyes: , right ?

you're a great guy ( outside of the ragelise escapades :P ), don't be so ignorant just because a mage can fuck up inexperienced teams so much - them not having winter's chill and r1 frostbolt to protect poly ( and having a absurdly high cast time on it as well, compared to s8 ) is equivalent of dispersion/pain suppression being dispellable, their only way to dish out important CC while being trained is pretty much ring of frost, and in current low haste environment, especially with shatter getting nerfed now, their only way to dish out damage is by casting 2+ sec frostbolts, which while being trained, is KINDA hard you know - not to say I'm defending 20k instant icelances, that shit was dumb as fuck, but they need some kind of way to deal damage when every single class in the game has a bloody interrupt, now including your favorite friends holy paladins as well

and if melee can't stick on mage and train him, they should find a new healer who knows what his dispel button is, as honestly, as a priest who played melee/caster/healer entirely until s8 when I was forced to wizcleave ( I would've kept RPSing had it not been for other wizardcleaving faggots ), I've learned to save globals to dispel novas, both as shadow and as disc, as it's something that's highest on the priority list ( unless you really need to keep something alive, aka it's like near dead ) - so the whole comment about dispelling mage shit in style of quality sarcasm "yeah you know we always dispel all time, we dont heal or do anything else" is really invalid when a skilled healer will always know what's important to do at given time and what's not


mages will continue to work in shatterplay, probably RMP and few other select comps like MLD etc etc, they're not absurdly nerfed this patch as a skilled mage will still be able to dish out the needed control while his partner does most of damage and lets the mage just do damage when needed, but to say that it feels like a finished class, it really does not.

it's the same scenario as with warriors really, warriors needed damage nerfs, they got their damage buffed and mobility nerfed ( rofl ) - on other hand, mages needed a efficient way to allow them to cast in arena, while appropriately reducing their damage - in this patch, all they got was nerfs and no quality of life improvements at all ( except the motherfucking retarded invisibility cloaking the pet as well, n1 )


( im not biased at all btw, I really actually did take some time to learn about mage issues as they were the highest skillcap class alongside warlocks and rogues throughout pretty much entire lifespan of the game, and some of stuff they got going on is equally retarded to shadowpriest dots not having adequate dispel protection and blizzard nerfing UA when it's already being dispelled by everyone and his mother )


This is essentially the problem(s) with mages right now, good post. It seems that there is a general consensus that we need some kind of way to control/cast better.

I think our survivability is fine, I'm stacking resilience and with proper use of my DRs/Peels I almost never die (I'm playing MLD though so this is kind of biased). The real problem is no dispel protection for poly and no way to reliably cast in arenas. Its really quite sad to see the fall of such a great, skilled class like mage. I really felt as though for BC and the majority of WotLK we were one of the harder classes to play. Now we are a gimmick class that wrecks bad players who can't use dispel well and otherwise does lackluster control/damage compared to our lock brethren.

I think that perhaps time warp should be like replenishment and only benefit the mage that uses it in arenas. The extra haste/damage CD would be really nice for our bursty nature, as well as letting us get casts off.
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#38 venruki

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:14 PM

mages are just really poorly designed right now, the only thing that would help us would be a big class redesign tweaking a ton of our abilities. i doubt how mages are right now is going to change anytime soon so i'd probably just re-roll warlock.
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#39 venruki

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:17 PM

I think that perhaps time warp should be like replenishment and only benefit the mage that uses it in arenas. The extra haste/damage CD would be really nice for our bursty nature, as well as letting us get casts off.



too gimicky, doesn't really fix the main issues just allows us to get random kills/cc, if it got dispelled or outlasted we're still shitty.

just wait till good warlock teams start using IMP!
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#40 Grillor

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 05:31 PM

too gimicky, doesn't really fix the main issues just allows us to get random kills/cc, if it got dispelled or outlasted we're still shitty.

just wait till good warlock teams start using IMP!


This is true. But I feel as though whatever casting/dispel mechanism they give us needs to be a CD, as we have way too many random procs as is. We need a haste CD, or something to cut down the cast time of poly.

I think if they removed shattered barrier next patch and replaced it with a dispel protection talent ala detect magic (maybe if dispelled decreases damage/healing by target for next 5 seconds by 50% or something along those lines) that would be nice. We NEED some kind of dispel protection and cast time buff in my opinion.
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