Jump to content

Photo

Concerns for Holy Paladins


  • Please log in to reply
259 replies to this topic

#41 Barburas

Barburas
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 2,317
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2586

Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:20 AM

I feel paladins are fine, granted you need to have slightly higher positional awareness with the loss of divine sac. You can coordinate positioning with your team and if you do it well you can easily outlast a bloodlust without having to use any cds yourself, making the late game much easier for your team.

Also rebuke will have its place in 3s, it's going to be a great tool to harass other healers with. Regardless if you actually land it or not they'll be paranoid just standing within 10 yards of you if you can manage to get near them without eating a world of cc


This is how I feel for the most part too, I agree other healers have an edge now but most of the dumb mechanics behind them are being fixed next patch and I don't feel palas will be in a bad place.
  • 0

#42 Freed

Freed
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Burning Blade
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 27
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 22 January 2011 - 03:29 AM

Holy Paladins are OP in Rated BGs


I believe the issue being discussed in this thread was not referring to rated BGs.

I agree with most of what Athlete mentioned save one point, paladins are strong but not "fine". We without a doubt we now need a higher, then ever before, level of situational awareness. Rebuke will def. play a role in 3v3. Imo this role will be greater then most people in this thread seem to anticipate albeit a minimal role.

Paladins are the defensive healer of the game. If that means we need to hug a pillar for 80% of the match, that's fine. However this defensive capacity relies heavily on four major Cooldowns: BoF, BoS, BoP and DS (yes i realize I called them blessings, i'm old school, leave me alone!). The problem with Holy Paladins arises from the fact that each of the above abilities can be easily dispelled. DS being "easily dispelled" is arguable, w/e, lets put that aside for the moment. What paladins need, to supplement their defensive nature, is a change to BOF, BoS and BoP making them undispellable (BoP's dispellable nature should mirror DS').

Playing a paladin, imo, shouldn't be about, "Freedom's up, n/m wait one sec, rebuffing kings, BoL and tossing a HS on you for filler first".

Imo sac could use a change as well. I would love to see it at a 5sec duration, undispellable with a 1min CD (talented) . . . maybe that'd be a tad OP. It would be similar to the new tremor if i'm recalling the new version correctly.
  • 0
Imagination is more important than knowledge – Einstein
March to the beat of your own drummer – Thoreau
The quality of the imagination is to flow and not to freeze – Emerson
The road to hell is paved with good intentions - Unknown

#43 allana

allana
  • Premium Junkies
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Kazzak
  • Misery
  • Posts: 535
  • Talents: Balance 0/0/2/1/1/2

Posted 22 January 2011 - 09:59 AM

The way I see it, I would be very eager to give up a lot of my mana efficiency if I could heal effectively. We got new healing tools but they're all mostly for raids and we lost all reactive healing. Where's my hots :(

I mean, yeah I can get someone to full in a couple of globals, but only if I can cast on said person - I'd gladly give it up for something that works even if I'm to be cc'd for a while.
  • 0
“As you think, you shall become.” -Pook

#44 Polizei

Polizei
  • Premium Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Al'Akir
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 844
  • Talents: Retribution

Posted 22 January 2011 - 11:58 AM

The way I see it, I would be very eager to give up a lot of my mana efficiency if I could heal effectively. We got new healing tools but they're all mostly for raids and we lost all reactive healing. Where's my hots :(

I mean, yeah I can get someone to full in a couple of globals, but only if I can cast on said person - I'd gladly give it up for something that works even if I'm to be cc'd for a while.


Sacred Shield. Lets campaign for Blizzard to give it back!
  • 0
<poliisi mies kerho>

#45 Athená

Athená
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Ревущий фьорд
  • Вихрь
  • Posts: 1,223
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2281
  • LocationThe Hague

Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:01 PM

The way I see it, I would be very eager to give up a lot of my mana efficiency if I could heal effectively. We got new healing tools but they're all mostly for raids and we lost all reactive healing. Where's my hots :(

I mean, yeah I can get someone to full in a couple of globals, but only if I can cast on said person - I'd gladly give it up for something that works even if I'm to be cc'd for a while.


I think youre refering to the FoL hot and sacred shield but iirc those are 'passive'?
But yeh our actual healing uptime is minimal if the opposing team has a functioning brain. Sure you can LoS alot and sure your team members can do alot to prevent you from getting cced but theres a limit. Fact being that that limit is ALOT easier to reach if you face a holy pala than, to be quite frank, any other healer.

Id rather have more uptime, less mana efficient and less healing than sometimes being helpless for about half a minute.

Sacred Shield. Lets campaign for Blizzard to give it back!


I second that.
  • 0
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

#46 Athená

Athená
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Ревущий фьорд
  • Вихрь
  • Posts: 1,223
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2281
  • LocationThe Hague

Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:48 PM

Probably been said before but there are actually 34 holy paladins in the top ten and only 24 resto druids.


Not according to the guy taking the top 50 from BG9 for two weeks already now.
  • 0
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

#47 Malrian

Malrian
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 74

Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:04 PM

i have like 15 games played
stay small
ps it was wmp
pps i agree with athlete


blank
  • 0

#48 Alkazard

Alkazard
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Frostwolf
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1,070
  • Talents: Protection
  • RBG: 2229

Posted 22 January 2011 - 01:51 PM

Imo sac could use a change as well. I would love to see it at a 5sec duration, undispellable with a 1min CD (talented) . . . maybe that'd be a tad OP. It would be similar to the new tremor if i'm recalling the new version correctly.


This would be glorious.
And it'd be different in the sense that:
a) We actually have to be smart/quick enough to use it prior to being CCed (New tremor is usable whilst feared/etced);
B) It's only for us, not the whole group.

I honestly think a change like this would be just what paladins need.
  • 0

wear bigger wizard hats *<|¦-)


#49 Hevan

Hevan
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • EU-Talnivarr
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 48
  • Talents: Elemental
  • RBG: 2692

Posted 22 January 2011 - 06:56 PM

- Revamp mastery to give some sort of healing HoT after each heal. (x% of heal as a HoT afterwards)

- Change Sacrifice, make it undispellable or change the mechanics of it.

- Give some sort of Sacred Shield.

I'd like to see something like that happening ;)
Of course I wouldn't mind having other things tuned down (cough mana cough) if they'd add something of those.
  • 0
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

#50 snackbacon

snackbacon
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 538
  • Talents: ./././././.
  • RBG: 2437

Posted 22 January 2011 - 07:18 PM

Not according to the guy taking the top 50 from BG9 for two weeks already now.


He said top 10, not top 50 on BG9. There was a post about the class breakdown of every top 10 on every single bg, and I believe holy paladins were 4th on the list(behind Resto shaman, frost mages, and affliction locks).

I think it would be cool to add some fun tools to the paladin class, but I think in order to get those things they would have to tone down the raw healing output and mana efficiency of paladins.
  • 0

#51 Ispen

Ispen
  • Members
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • EU-Frostwhisper
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 659
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 23 January 2011 - 12:01 AM

Where does this leave us paladins?
REBUKE IS NOT A 3v3/5v5 HOLY PALADIN BUFF


It leaves you as the healer that can make the most mistakes and still win due to unrealistic healing,infinite mana, defensive cooldowns.
Sorry you don't feel that rebuke is not a 3s buff but to me it's pretty obvious that it's a talent that would increase the contribution of a paladin to his team's success, creating more clutch plays.
It is so powerful it's a joke that they gave it to paladins.
Paladin and maybe DK are the only classes that are capable to find ways to be upset when they receive buffs,are currently beyond broken and act like it's all over. It's annoying when some healers were unable to play arena for several months in previous expansions, even now, for instance priest healer can't do arena.
  • 0

#52 Involute

Involute
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 48
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 23 January 2011 - 02:26 AM

beyond broken? rofl...
  • 0

#53 Schmeiser

Schmeiser
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 1,645
  • Talents: Affliction

Posted 23 January 2011 - 02:40 AM

Playing WLP against mp3 or mage lock shaman it just feels stupid how pala can be chained into cc so easily sometimes.
  • 0

#54 Borcat

Borcat
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Al'Akir
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 183
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 23 January 2011 - 03:12 AM

Playing WLP against mp3 or mage lock shaman it just feels stupid how pala can be chained into cc so easily sometimes.


This :( Cant do anything really. I might los some but sooner or later I get into that deep -> 30 sec of cc chain.
  • 0
My mage friend on skype: Why are they ruining wow!? Druids are impossible to kill, wotlk was totallt perfect!

#55 koshimo

koshimo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 615
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 1805
  • 3v3: 2099
  • RBG: 1706

Posted 23 January 2011 - 04:06 AM

Against average to decent players, hpallys are amazing, but against amazing players they can be rendered useless extremely easily.
  • 0

#56 Polizei

Polizei
  • Premium Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Al'Akir
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 844
  • Talents: Retribution

Posted 23 January 2011 - 09:39 AM

It leaves you as the healer that can make the most mistakes and still win due to unrealistic healing,infinite mana, defensive cooldowns.
Sorry you don't feel that rebuke is not a 3s buff but to me it's pretty obvious that it's a talent that would increase the contribution of a paladin to his team's success, creating more clutch plays.
It is so powerful it's a joke that they gave it to paladins.
Paladin and maybe DK are the only classes that are capable to find ways to be upset when they receive buffs,are currently beyond broken and act like it's all over. It's annoying when some healers were unable to play arena for several months in previous expansions, even now, for instance priest healer can't do arena.


Priest healers can do arena, Ive seen decent ones high. Paladin dont have infinite mana. Paladins defensive CDs get removed in 1-2globals if enemy is not retarded. Reason why Rebuke is not 3v3 buff is, in the current build paladin is the easiest class to CC and running after enemy healer will only get you CCd like no before. Paladins dont have unrealistic healing. In current patch paladin can make some of the least amount of mistakes to win, CC. I am not upset about Rebuke, Im just stating its not a buff paladin needed.
  • 0
<poliisi mies kerho>

#57 Ispen

Ispen
  • Members
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • EU-Frostwhisper
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 659
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 23 January 2011 - 10:40 AM

No healer have the solution to deepfreeze with fingers of frost followed by triple sheep followed by another casters cc + silence(s).
At least you can break it more than once and heal safely with bubble/aura mastery.
When you come out of cc, you have to heal quick and a lot, paladins top someone off in a couple of gcds. Most healers can't recover from shorter cc chains due to lower healing. These are what I was referring to by high error tolerance.
We have never beat a paladin team because he was oom. I played with 2 healers, palas usually run around %80 mana the entire game when my healer was oom.
Also can't figure out why you made a "our future is dark" post, you just got rebuke and divine plea buffed. If you want your class design lead to another direction, it probably won't happen, you'll always be the heal bot main tank healer with some utility contributions that is in a group with 4 shadow priests for mana.
  • 0

#58 allana

allana
  • Premium Junkies
  • Trollclass_name
  • EU-Kazzak
  • Misery
  • Posts: 535
  • Talents: Balance 0/0/2/1/1/2

Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:27 AM

No healer have the solution to deepfreeze with fingers of frost followed by triple sheep followed by another casters cc + silence(s).
At least you can break it more than once and heal safely with bubble/aura mastery.


we can break deep freeze with aura mastery?
  • 0
“As you think, you shall become.” -Pook

#59 Navariumx

Navariumx
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Skullcrusher
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 625
  • Talents: Retribution
  • RBG: 1775
  • LocationDenmark

Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:39 AM

Well, you can freedom while in a deep freeze to avoid the extra damage from Shatter, but break it? No.
  • 0

#60 Athená

Athená
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Ревущий фьорд
  • Вихрь
  • Posts: 1,223
  • Talents: Holy 0/0/1/2/2/0
  • RBG: 2281
  • LocationThe Hague

Posted 23 January 2011 - 12:24 PM

No healer have the solution to deepfreeze with fingers of frost followed by triple sheep followed by another casters cc + silence(s).
At least you can break it more than once and heal safely with bubble/aura mastery.
When you come out of cc, you have to heal quick and a lot, paladins top someone off in a couple of gcds. Most healers can't recover from shorter cc chains due to lower healing. These are what I was referring to by high error tolerance.
We have never beat a paladin team because he was oom. I played with 2 healers, palas usually run around %80 mana the entire game when my healer was oom.
Also can't figure out why you made a "our future is dark" post, you just got rebuke and divine plea buffed. If you want your class design lead to another direction, it probably won't happen, you'll always be the heal bot main tank healer with some utility contributions that is in a group with 4 shadow priests for mana.


And why exactly do you think other healers cant recover as well? Thats right because they have ways to stay out of cc, ALOT more. Yeh palas dont go oom fast, thats because we get cced so much we rarely get to spend it.
FYI if you cant win from teams with a holy paladin, the holy pala in question might not be the problem.

As almost all paladins say time and time again, we'd gladly give up healing done if we got means to stay out of cc.
  • 0
I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<