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Concerns for Holy Paladins


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#1 Polizei

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:14 PM

This is not the ordinary whine post, if whine post at all. Would be higly prefered for other classes stay out of the thread.

Anyone else seen a downward trend in holy paladin representation from the start of the season? At the start of the season we were easily comparable to resto shamans, maybe due because not having that much resilience or whatsoever. Now if you see the representation for top50 3v3(who cares about low representation), you can easily see a trend on all BGs that top3 classes on almost all are: shamans, mages and druids. Inb4 representation doesnt say a shit, hunter number in top50 is easily comparable to their general shittiness: if you are lucky you might find one hunter team in top50 on your BG.

Most of those druids and shamans are sadly healers. Sure there are few enhas and ferals (doubt we will see either too much after 4.0.6) but the amount of healing druids or shamans easily outweigh the amount of holy paladins out there. My main concern for holy paladins in 3v3 is 4.0.6. Shamans are getting nerfed, druids only little and priests getting buffed by a lot; but this far there hasnt been any paladin buffs. Paladins simply do not bring enough crap on the table to even outweigh a nerfed resto shaman. We are considered to bring "shit" load of defensive utility on the table but considering our main 3 helpfull defensive CDs (HoS, HoF, HoP) are purged in 1 global what do we bring on the table then? My guess is that after the patch, druids will dominate like never before (over S3-S4 levels), priests will be usefull for some control setups (such as S1-S8 RMP) and shamans will still be used as mana-efficient shield-wearing version of priests with little less help for the team. Where does this leave us paladins? One might argue that we are still the most mana-efficient healing class of the game, but what exactly does that extra mana-efficieny bring us in top50? Our heals are easily interrupted, we dont CC the enemy, we can heal anyone from 10% to 100% in 2globals once in a game and after our HoS is purged and bubble is used, we eat most CCs.

The future of holy paladins is looking grim in 4.0.6. The patch is favouring meleecleaves for paladin healers and we all know how stupid you can feel for playing that. Sure WLP might be decent, or even WMP but its not looking too bright for paladins and melee+caster+paladin setups.

TL;DR Holy paladins not getting any extra utility, no reason to bring them to any team except meleecleave.

REBUKE IS NOT A 3v3/5v5 HOLY PALADIN BUFF

I guess its time to switch brackets or roll ret if it works out.
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<poliisi mies kerho>

#2 Shamslol

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:24 PM

Don't forget locks representation in the top 3s.. they're like 2nd after shaman, if not the same as shaman. Anyways I think pally's will be fine with the nerfs to shaman for sure.
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#3 Jecks

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:41 PM

inb4 shamans thinking their class is worse than paladins
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#4 Zez

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:44 PM

^
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#5 Ctuhlu

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:52 PM

REBUKE IS NOT A 3v3/5v5 HOLY PALADIN BUFF

I guess its time to switch brackets or roll ret if it works out.


Yes it is, stop being horrible. We all know Resto Shamans and Holy Paladins are the kings on pvp right now, but the fact that you can even post this with a straight face is pretty troubling. Tremor, purge, Bloodlust, and cleansing waters have all been fixed on the PTR and this is a huge relative buff to Paladins. Your only competition in healer dominance was nerfed quite substantially, and the fact that you still won't even drop below 80% mana is still in your favor.

This has to be satire -- I can't believe paladins are complaining.
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we have to switch to them making the decision to pop reck or not to pop reck


#6 Athená

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 06:56 PM

CC hurts ALOT as a paladin, thats why in wotlk we had 30% of fear silence curse and disorient effects plus another sac. All those got removed plus our only means of passive defense namely sacred shield.
Every holy shock I pray to the RNG gods for an Infusion of Light proc to top my partners off after sitting in 30 seconds of cc. (MLD)
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#7 Nevermynd

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:01 PM

CC hurts ALOT as a paladin, thats why in wotlk we had 30% of fear silence curse and disorient effects plus another sac. All those got removed plus our only means of passive defense namely sacred shield.
Every holy shock I pray to the RNG gods for an Infusion of Light proc to top my partners off after sitting in 30 seconds of cc. (MLD)


This.
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#8 Nevermynd

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:03 PM

Yes it is,


Any team with half a brain will swap to a paladin in the open going for a melee interrupt rofl. Also considering most teams are going to have locks or mages to a lesser extent ( think shadowcleave or rmp ) then why would anyone EVER give up their position to get an interrupt that makes them COMPLETELY vulnerable, not saying it's a bad thing to have but most of the times it will be counter intuitive and doesn't really help the fact that paladins don't bring much to the table.
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#9 Navariumx

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:06 PM

Don't forget all CC being reduced and Rebuke being baseline is somewhat a buff, including the nerfs to resto druids and shamans, and the general "OP" classes being more balanced. (namely feral druids)
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#10 Athená

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:09 PM

Don't forget all CC being reduced and Rebuke being baseline is somewhat a buff, including the nerfs to resto druids and shamans, and the general "OP" classes being more balanced. (namely feral druids)


True but what is 1 second from a 9 second cc, them melee cleaves can gib your partner in 3.
Rebuke will be nice vs those mages that blink next to you to poly.
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#11 Navariumx

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:11 PM

It's two seconds.
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#12 Athená

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:12 PM

Yes it is, stop being horrible. We all know Resto Shamans and Holy Paladins are the kings on pvp right now, but the fact that you can even post this with a straight face is pretty troubling. Tremor, purge, Bloodlust, and cleansing waters have all been fixed on the PTR and this is a huge relative buff to Paladins. Your only competition in healer dominance was nerfed quite substantially, and the fact that you still won't even drop below 80% mana is still in your favor.

This has to be satire -- I can't believe paladins are complaining.


I totally agree shatreeplay and mld are both shit comps.
Healing less but eating far less cc in return is much more prefered than eating half a minute worth of cc and then being able to top your partner of in two globals.
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#13 ferz

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:24 PM

This is not the ordinary whine post, if whine post at all.


wat
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#14 allana

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:25 PM

yup. There's a reason my resto druid who just got the 100 arena games won achievement has more success in 3v3 than my paladin I've played 100% since season 1 day 1 :D
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#15 Polizei

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:29 PM

Don't forget locks representation in the top 3s.. they're like 2nd after shaman, if not the same as shaman. Anyways I think pally's will be fine with the nerfs to shaman for sure.


Why would you bring paladin over a shaman for any team?
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#16 Navariumx

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:39 PM

Zerg teams (TSG) :D
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#17 Jecks

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:47 PM

Zerg teams (TSG) :D


shamans are still better since freedom gets purged off in the first 2-3 seconds if you're playing someone who isn't a complete mongoloid.
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#18 Polizei

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:47 PM

Yes it is, stop being horrible. We all know Resto Shamans and Holy Paladins are the kings on pvp right now, but the fact that you can even post this with a straight face is pretty troubling. Tremor, purge, Bloodlust, and cleansing waters have all been fixed on the PTR and this is a huge relative buff to Paladins. Your only competition in healer dominance was nerfed quite substantially, and the fact that you still won't even drop below 80% mana is still in your favor.

This has to be satire -- I can't believe paladins are complaining.


I dont think you completely understood the problem. Paladin has no proper way of getting out CC, paladin has no proper CC and we have zero hots/absorbs which will help us during CCs. Rebuke will be situational, Im guessing the average amount of rebukes used in 3v3 game will be 1.
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#19 Raia

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:51 PM

Paladin shadowcleave seems like the best variant after the patch. CC is the only gripe I've had so far playing a paladin, but I generally just pillar and abuse the Holy Radiance sprint for positioning.

I'd like to see Hand of Sacrifice become undispelable or a similar spell to Divine Sacrifice given back to paladins.

The rebuke change won't impact us much, if at all. I rarely can show myself enough to HoJ.
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#20 Zez

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Posted 21 January 2011 - 07:52 PM

Pretty sure druids will be better for scleave
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