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Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (6.0.3)


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#221 Alaaaan

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:47 PM

Anyone seen that Combatant (620/675) gear isn't part of a set but Aspirant (600/660) is? Anyone know what's better at this point?

#222 Messman

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:21 PM

I was kidding btw. I plan on playing with a Ret. War/Ret/Healer should work right?

Yeah nerf those ferals and their 100k FBs..

#223 Kajis

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:21 PM

@Chitoria Interesting stuff about stat weight in PvP, I will try to do all the numbers test and check how relevant it's in PvP and share it later. Tho I would like to do it with full Conq Gear, hopefully they add PvP vendor on PTR servs with all the gear for that (or maybe they already did? I dunnoz)

About Retri being trained, I'm not sure anymore if we are main target with CC reduction from HOF and Wings (pvp bonus) all the 8sec fears are just 2 sec laugh or so and you can't burst down in that short time. I played with some random Shadow Priest yest and I think we won like 90% of all matches we did, we could just outheal any damage. I find Warrior,WW, Ele/Enha some clothers go down much faster now.

#224 Kajis

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:22 PM

View PostMessman, on 24 November 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

I was kidding btw. I plan on playing with a Ret. War/Ret/Healer should work right?

Yeah nerf those ferals and their 100k FBs..

Reroll War to Feral or Rog :q At least how War is now , sadly :X

#225 the_fool

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:34 PM

View PostAlaaaan, on 24 November 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Anyone seen that Combatant (620/675) gear isn't part of a set but Aspirant (600/660) is? Anyone know what's better at this point?

"Scaled" stuff at either item level is part of the set and "Plate" stuff isn't. Some of the "offset" pieces have Versatility and some don't, so I don't know what the point is. The set bonuses are more valuable than the difference between 600 and 620 stuff, so get the set with whatever you have and then replace the lower ilvl stuff with Honor purchases as you can.

#226 Messman

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:23 PM

View PostKajis, on 24 November 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

Reroll War to Feral or Rog :q At least how War is now , sadly :X

What are you talking about man? Glad Prot is in a good place atm and fun to play. Should work with Ret no? I was thinking War/Ret/Disc.

#227 Animefreak3K

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:23 PM

Double Ret + Priester for....Holy Cleave? :)

#228 Gigana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:39 AM

I don't understand why only Scaled stuff has the set bonus.

Why not give the set bonus to other chest/legs/hands/head/shoulders pieces? I thought the whole point of having additional pieces is to give people options, yet without set bonuses nobody is gonna take those. Why are they even in the game?

In other news, I still don't know which weapon enchant to go for. I'm thinking versatility or mastery.

EDIT: In PvP situation (full honor gear) I have 50% mastery (1603 mastery), so the mastery enchant would definitely add a decent amount of bonus holy dmg, especially since I think it benefits from the +5% mastery paladin trait (righteous vengeance).

On the other hand, I have 681 versatility, which translates into 8% more dmg done, 4% less dmg taken. I'll have +40 more once I get blue ring enchants. So +500 versatility from proc basically doubles it. I think, once we get epic gear and I get ashran boots, belt, bracers with +versatility on them, I'll easily have 7-8% passive dmg mitigation from versatility, and 10%+ with enchant proc, so that's a no brainer once we get to the epic-gear level.

EDIT#2: Nevermind, it seems I hallucinated the versatlity wep enchant, it doesn't actually exist. xD

Edited by Gigana, 25 November 2014 - 02:49 PM.

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#229 prana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:51 AM

Why versatility over mastery or haste for the secondary stat?

#230 Gigana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 11:59 AM

View Postprana, on 25 November 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Why versatility over mastery or haste for the secondary stat?
Because ret received no passive survivability boosts and because our team utility/healing is still too good to ignore. Also, because Hand of Protection is even shittier now, and with no inquisition we have less crit for those big heals.

All of this will result in retri getting trained in rated PvP non stop. Being able to dish out MOAR DMG doesn't help at all if your healer can't keep you up. Therefore, versatility is necessary because it basically gives you resilience.

Haste is great if yo're gonna sit on target, like in PvE. In PvP however, staying on target for a prolonged period of time is unlikely even on low-ish ratings.
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#231 prana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:09 PM

View PostGigana, on 25 November 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

Because ret received no passive survivability boosts and because our team utility/healing is still too good to ignore. Also, because Hand of Protection is even shittier now, and with no inquisition we have less crit for those big heals.

All of this will result in retri getting trained in rated PvP non stop. Being able to dish out MOAR DMG doesn't help at all if your healer can't keep you up. Therefore, versatility is necessary because it basically gives you resilience.

Haste is great if yo're gonna sit on target, like in PvE. In PvP however, staying on target for a prolonged period of time is unlikely even on low-ish ratings.

I see. Mastery weapon enchant would be sick tho when lined up with trink proc's/wings

#232 Crono_Smash

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:11 PM

Basicaly Versatility = Survivability and Mastery = Melee Damage.

The X damage trade for Y survivability (mitigation+healing) is the number we need to find out.
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#233 Gigana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:17 PM

View PostCrono_Smash, on 25 November 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

The X damage trade for Y survivability (mitigation+healing) is the number we need to find out.
The problem is, with the way gearing is set up now - no reforge, no gems, only 4 enchants - we'll at best end up stacking items with one desired off-stat and just accepting whatever else is on the item.

The thing that bothers me, however, is that there seems to be a lot more versatility on PvE items, so mythic raiders will theoretically be able to gear up better for PvP.
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#234 Crono_Smash

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:36 PM

View PostGigana, on 25 November 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

The problem is, with the way gearing is set up now - no reforge, no gems, only 4 enchants - we'll at best end up stacking items with one desired off-stat and just accepting whatever else is on the item.

The thing that bothers me, however, is that there seems to be a lot more versatility on PvE items, so mythic raiders will theoretically be able to gear up better for PvP.

Well... we'll custom what we can.

It's weird not having gem sockets and much less with much less variety of Enchants on gear. I think it's better honestely but I think it breaks the economy. Not my problem, I'm far better just having Enchanting and Engeneering for everything I want/need from the game.

Whatever stat we decide on, will have about 1000 (with procs) more. It's a decent number of custom stat, we'll just have to choose wisely.

I think we're between Versatility and Mastery (since Haste is OK above 15% and Crit/MS is unreliable and not enough).

Say: 1000 Versatility gives us how much more damage/healing/mitigation and 1000 mastery gives us how much more damage? That seems to be all we can think/choose/do.
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#235 Gigana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 12:46 PM

Yepp. I myself am gonna take versatility items whenever I can, and when there aren't any available, I'll go for mastery. Seems like the most sensible option until later seasons when we might be able to stack more meaningful amounts of crit/MS/haste/etc.

I personally miss reforge the most. Seems so lame when I have to use some piece that has mastery/multistrike or versatility/haste and can't even reforge 40% of that unwanted stat into something more desirable. :(
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#236 Animefreak3K

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:11 PM

Quote

I still don't know which weapon enchant to go for. I'm thinking versatility

Did i miss something? A weapon enchant, that gives us versatility? :)

You should easily be able to break the 10% versatility with the Items from Vol'Jins Spear.

Quote

Why versatility

It boosts everyting. Damage, Heal and decreases all incoming damage.

#237 Gigana

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 02:48 PM

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 25 November 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Did i miss something? A weapon enchant, that gives us versatility? :)

You should easily be able to break the 10% versatility with the Items from Vol'Jins Spear.
Lol what the hell, I could swear i've seen a versatility weapon enchant the other day on AH, and now that I'm looking for it on wowhead I can't find it. I must've read wrong or something. Well, at least that removes my dilemma, mastery it is! :D

As for voljin spear items, sadly we can't use most of them because they take same slots as set pieces. However, there are versatility belt/boots/bracers so that's somethign at least.
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#238 Animefreak3K

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:37 PM

Never mind, first i though is really missed something :) .

#239 Darkrizen

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Posted Yesterday, 08:30 AM

View PostVanguards, on 19 January 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

You can basically fit in 1-4 for 1, and Word of Glory with Sacrifice / Freedom / Hand of Protection and you'll have most of the Macros I have. I only have 1-2 for most of them, and 1-4 for WOG for 5s. 1-4 for everything was a bit too overwhelming for me. (Not Enough Buttons + Too Crazy lol)

For each keybind you have 8 possible combinations using the modifiers ctrl, alt, shift
I.e.  1-4 for all of what you mentioned only would require 2 keys.

I think it's feasible to do it up to party 10 with naga.  But I'm not that lucky to have one.


Also, it might be worth adding the Sac macro everyone has been talking about:

/castsequence reset=3 Hand of Sacrifice, Turn Evil

That way you don't accidentally use TWO sacs when you only meant to use one. (Changes to Sac not being on GCD anymore)

Edited by Darkrizen, Yesterday, 08:33 AM.





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