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Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (6.0.2)


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#141 improveyup

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:39 PM

why are you writing ret guides when you are an enhance shaman

??

#142 Animefreak3K

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:46 PM

He plays both, forgot? ;)

#143 Gigana

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:30 PM

In full versatility gear, how much actual versatility can we stack? How much % increase on dmg mitigation can we expect in full conquest versatility gear?
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#144 glonglon

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:47 PM

View PostGigana, on 27 October 2014 - 11:30 PM, said:

In full versatility gear, how much actual versatility can we stack? How much % increase on dmg mitigation can we expect in full conquest versatility gear?

I'd say ~10% vers with the 690 pvp gear.

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#145 Gigana

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 11:58 PM

View Postglonglon, on 27 October 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

I'd say ~10% vers with the 690 pvp gear.
Is that with or without the sanctity aura?

Anyway, that sounds pretty awesome, especially combined with our healing and the TV glyph.

God I can't wait to get to 100 and start grinding that honor gear. :D
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#146 Animefreak3K

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 12:03 AM

You can go up to 9% (Incl. aura) and with Set-Bonus.

That means you always deal 9% more damage, you healing is increased by 9%, and the incoming damage is reduced by 4,5%.

There aren't any Gems and Sockets incluced, because they aren't available yet.

I also don't know, what blizzard will do with the Items (PvP-Set, Non-Set Items).
Acutall you can choose between 2-3 types of items:

3x Chest, but only one is a set item.
3x Shoulders, but only on is a set item.

And so on.

That means, you choose 4 Set-Items to gain all bonuses, and the rest with the stats of you choice.

#147 Crono_Smash

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:07 AM

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 27 October 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

It will :) .
You also can kite your enemy a little bit, to heal yourself, your your mates a bit.



Correct, and right.

But the combination of Crit and Multistrike is really good. Duelled many times and it was really surprised, how good it is.
Go no MS and than Crit.
Healing and dmg can go up really good, but, it's still rng :> .



Solid choice, sure. But you only have to options with versatility:

1.) Stacking it as much as possible or,
2.) leave it alone. Why? It's too expensive to push it as a second stat.

If you push your Mainstat (strenght) and versatility as much as possible, you boost your substaind damage and your healing.
If you choose crit as your second stat, it can be really awesome with HA+Wings+ES.



WoD is the first Addon, were Ret Paladins really have options. Even without reforge and so on.

About Crit/Ms: I know it should be our best stat for defensive but the same as I said on MMO-C forums: we need the numbers to be sure. Math was made on PVE enviroment where Crit has a higher value, so... we need a PVP math to get to conclusions.

About Versatility: I agree. I don't think we'll stack it, but will be valuable. Unless they buff it, but it's a thin line between nice to have and must have.

And to me, it feels good to stack Haste because of GCD, Mastery because of sustained damage and Versatility because it's global value. All of them for reliability, that is needed for PVP. Crit is fun for PVE but it's value is spread out. For PVP a Crit or not Crit can define a win or lose. The less luck involved, more skill is involved and less frustration.

That's my opinion anyway. I'll use Crit/Ms if proven the best option, but if it's all the same I'll go with any other one.

---

About the amount of custom I mean:

We could custom a LOT of stats with Gems/Reforge/Enchants/Gear. Now the amount of customizable stats will come from... Gear and Enchants. So we pick a piece that gives us X stat and enchant that gives us Y stat. And that's it all we can custom our stats, right? Am I missing something here?
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#148 Crono_Smash

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 01:06 PM

One more thing about stats weight:

PVE SimC measure it's value by the DPS only.

If we were to make a real value list, we would need to weight Healing and Mitigation because of Versatility. They're low priority for damage, but since damage is not the only valuable thing for us... we need take a better look into this.

Maybe we should play more on lvl 100 to know how much we're playing ofensive and defensive, how much uptime we have and how bad it is to rely on random. Maybe this will help determine the best stat. The most common situation we are on gameplay.
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#149 Animefreak3K

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 04:20 PM

Quote

PVP math

That sounds so easy, but it isn't :D .

Quote

About Versatility: I agree. I don't think we'll stack it, but will be valuable. Unless they buff it, but it's a thin line between nice to have and must have.

Yeah, that's a bit say. It's like Zaul said "the" hybrid Stat.
Maybe Blizzard will add sockets and gems in the PvP Servers, so we can see, how far it's possible, to push this, and the other stats.

#150 glonglon

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 04:46 PM

View PostGigana, on 27 October 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Anyway, that sounds pretty awesome, especially combined with our healing and the TV glyph.


I prefer to have 35% multistrike or 25% crit than 10% vers :(

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#151 Gigana

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:12 PM

View Postglonglon, on 28 October 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

I prefer to have 35% multistrike or 25% crit than 10% vers :(
We'll have to test stuff out and see. I figure we have at least 6-8 weeks of s16 before we begin spending conquest on off-pieces, so that's a lot of time to figure out what off-stat works best.
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#152 Animefreak3K

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:26 PM

Quote

We'll have to test stuff out and see.

We always have to ;) .

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35% multistrike

Don't forget, you have 35% temporary, not permanent.

#153 krontotheiic

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Posted Yesterday, 06:33 PM

Is execution sentence that much of a gain over Holy Prism?

#154 glonglon

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Posted Yesterday, 10:07 PM

View Postkrontotheiic, on 29 October 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Is execution sentence that much of a gain over Holy Prism?

Dunno about lvl100 but I've done some testings in 6.0.2 prepatch and there is no signicant difference between holy prism and ES :

ES 1min cd : I had 18k avg overall damage.

Holy Prism 20s cd : 4.4k non crit, 9k crit.

If you crit 3x times with Holy prism 27k, 2 times 22k so Holy Prism seem to be slightly better than ES in prepatch, need beta player feedback to confirm about lvl100.

For now I'm running Holy prism because I don't like ES ramp-up time but Avengelyne is playing with ES because the 1mn PvP trinket lines-up perfectly with ES.

Holy Prism can be used to spot stealthed rogues, It's a 15y range AoE if you use it on yourself or a friendly target.

Against mages ES is useless because of iceblock.

Against rogue/mage comp I'll definitely go holy prism, for other comps It's really up to you, your choice will not be game-breaking.

Hope this helps,
Regards.

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#155 Crono_Smash

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Posted Today, 11:14 AM

I'd consider the area and healing factor for Prism. In short, I'd use mostly against stealthies and cleaving situations.
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#156 Gigana

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Posted Today, 11:55 AM

I think Prism might be a great option for lvl100 RBGs as not only does it heal us and our teammates, it can also be used on friendly targets as a little dmg aoe spell that stops node capping.
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#157 Treta

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Posted Today, 12:59 PM

Any tips for ret x ret 1v1s? As a returning ret I'm having a lot of trouble winnining duels atm, I think I'm playing too defensively.

#158 Avengelyne

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Posted Today, 01:44 PM

View PostTreta, on 30 October 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Any tips for ret x ret 1v1s? As a returning ret I'm having a lot of trouble winnining duels atm, I think I'm playing too defensively.

Ret 1v1 is retarded now. Your heals are more potent than your damage so you can pretty much survive forever by running in away and spamming WoG. It also comes down to parry RNG a lot of the time and who has better latency. When I duel Rets that just run away healing the entire time I typically mount up, fly in the air and tab out. I would advise learning Ret by doing arena as most of your potential is determined by your ability to support your team properly.

edit: For actual MoP advice I would say time your ES with trinket procs, go 30s wall for every HoJ, use your blind smart to bait trinkets when he wings, use your BoPs cleverly (bubble for HoJ breaks BoP otherwise).

Now post MoP ES is better used on yourself, Holy power better spent on WoG and wings/HA better spent to heal than do damage so :(

Edited by Avengelyne, Today, 01:49 PM.

http://www.twitch.tv/avengtv -- Follow for Ret 3v3 Arenas on Live and Beta!


View Postgravyrainbow, on 08 October 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

I prefer combat because my dong is large and I will face the enemy like a man rather than sprint over to a pillar for a re after my opener is up.

#159 Treta

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Posted Today, 02:21 PM

View PostAvengelyne, on 30 October 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

Ret 1v1 is retarded now. Your heals are more potent than your damage so you can pretty much survive forever by running in away and spamming WoG. It also comes down to parry RNG a lot of the time and who has better latency. When I duel Rets that just run away healing the entire time I typically mount up, fly in the air and tab out. I would advise learning Ret by doing arena as most of your potential is determined by your ability to support your team properly.

edit: For actual MoP advice I would say time your ES with trinket procs, go 30s wall for every HoJ, use your blind smart to bait trinkets when he wings, use your BoPs cleverly (bubble for HoJ breaks BoP otherwise).

Now post MoP ES is better used on yourself, Holy power better spent on WoG and wings/HA better spent to heal than do damage so :(

Jesus Chist, how horrifying.




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