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Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (6.0.2)


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#121 Lamo

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:26 PM

Is Execution Sentence still the talent to use or is it back to Holy Prism?

#122 glonglon

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 01:45 PM

View PostLamo, on 13 March 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Is Execution Sentence still the talent to use or is it back to Holy Prism?

View Postglonglon, on 25 February 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:


Holy prism damage is shitty, execution sentence can crit from 50-100k. I found out that the best moment to use it is during your avenging wrath+holy avenger burst cause it'll do significantly more damage. If my avenging wrath+holy avenger burst is not available I wait for my Insignia of victory proc to use it.  

You should use execution sentence offensively most of the time, this extra damage burst will often win you games and it can kill hunters in deterrence which is funny :)

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#123 Iceflame

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 05:41 PM

Hello there, i have a question about expertise.

Currently my human ret has 1668 expertise rating which puts me at +5.91% total. I can see 2 stats for expertise, one being the enemy's chance to dodge and the other being their chance to parry. The dodge chance has been 0% for a long time but for some the parry chance is still 0.09%. The guide suggests 3% expertise rating being the cap, am I missing something? Do I need to make that parry chance go to 0.00%?

#124 Qwey

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 11:42 AM

You don't *need* to get it to 0 but its probably not a bad idea (rng ftl).  I don't play melee much but I remember hearing something about needing 6% exp now to remove all chance of parry. (which matches your 6.00% - 5.91%= .09% parry)
:3

#125 Vanguards

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:07 AM

Updated guide, after a lot of testing I've decided to run "Crit" as the main off-stat rather than Haste or Mastery. Its given the best results in terms of all-round usefulness; burst and surviving.

We have very bad up-time this particular patch, partially due to our squishyness and how easy we have always been to CC. I feel Crit or Mastery can accomplish much more than haste now since our actual up-time in PvP is very low.
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#126 andrucho23

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 05:05 AM

Quick question: Wouldn't it be better to use Holy Prism vs team where you're going to probably focus the mage? Since if you ES him if he blocks you lose that dmg unless you use it after the 2nd blockish? I'm kinda confussed when to drop it

#127 zenton

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 12:44 PM

View Postandrucho23, on 30 April 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

Quick question: Wouldn't it be better to use Holy Prism vs team where you're going to probably focus the mage? Since if you ES him if he blocks you lose that dmg unless you use it after the 2nd blockish? I'm kinda confussed when to drop it

I definetly use it against mage. Our you might stick to ES and use it defensively if that can ease up some pressure on your team.

#128 netswine

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 06:00 PM

Eliz from Sylvanas its making Mastery and Crit work wonderfully, while Avangelyne is making Haste and Crit as good of a choice. Seems like its a play style choice at this point with Crit being a common denominator.

Edit: For those still gearing, I am not sure if crit is a viable option before Prideful.

#129 Vanguards

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:28 PM

Partially updated for 6.0.2.

Still some information to sort out, should be more clear when WoD comes out!
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#130 Sepphie

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:50 PM

Decent update - thanks Vanguards! On the beta I've been playing with both Seraphim & FV, one thing to note about FV is it's effectiveness against melee cleaves due to the fact A) It's ranged :duckers: It changes your TV from Physical Damage to holy; but I found using Seraphim for kills on cloth targets to be more effective.

Edited by Sepphie, 26 October 2014 - 12:18 AM.

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#131 Volb

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:24 PM

View PostSepphie, on 25 October 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

one thing to note about FV is it's effectiveness against melee cleaves due to the fact A) It's ranged :duckers: It changes your TV from Holy Damage to physical
FV does 200% HOLY damage, not physical. Not sure if intentional or misunderstood or typo.

#132 Phanact

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:32 PM

Great update by one of the greats. +rep

#133 Treta

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:54 PM

Awesome update from the best ret! Can we get a more detailed explanation on why mastery is the best stat now? Wouldn't crit be better for a steadier chance of throwing big offheals?

#134 Sepphie

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 12:17 AM

View PostVolb, on 25 October 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:


FV does 200% HOLY damage, not physical. Not sure if intentional or misunderstood or typo.
Mistyped, I meant the opposite ie what you said, else my follow up about seraphim nor reference to the effectiveness about playing it vs melee cleaves would have made no sense! Fixed it thanks for the spot.

Edited by Sepphie, 26 October 2014 - 12:20 AM.

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#135 Vanguards

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 02:30 AM

View PostTreta, on 25 October 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Awesome update from the best ret! Can we get a more detailed explanation on why mastery is the best stat now? Wouldn't crit be better for a steadier chance of throwing big offheals?

Thanks everyone! As said this isn't confirmed yet as I've played with limited testing. My assumption for mastery is that we now get a Mastery bonus buff, meaning we get an extra scaling from Mastery. I was also told that PvErs have found Mastery to be the new best stat (not 100% sure) but if this is true the PvE stats generally translate somewhat to PvP particularly for Mastery / Crit since they're burst stats.
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#136 Mallorea

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 04:47 PM

Mastery is slightly ahead of haste and crit, with crit just ever so slightly behind mastery according to my sims. Haste is always last by a few hundred DPS and crit is usually within 100 DPS of mastery. So choosing crit over mastery won't result in any substantial DPS lost, however crit benefits our off healing whereas mastery does not, so crit is probably a pretty good choice.


In a sim with PVP gear at 90, they're all within 100 DPS of each other over a 100s period, but mastery peaks slightly higher.

#137 glonglon

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:16 PM

View PostTreta, on 25 October 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Awesome update from the best ret! Can we get a more detailed explanation on why mastery is the best stat now? Wouldn't crit be better for a steadier chance of throwing big offheals?

Here are my thoughts about stats.

Stats weights for ret@lvl100 :

60 mastery = +1% mastery

66 multistrike = +1% multristrike

100 haste = +1% haste

110 crit = +1% crit

130 versatility = +1% dmg/healing/absorbs -0.5% dmg taken


PvE stats priorities from WoD PvE simcrafts (not relevant for PvP but gives a general idea about which stat to go) :

Str > Mastery > Multistrike = Crit > Haste > Versatility


My thoughts about each stat :

Mastery : Best damage stat from a PvE point of view, cheap and easy to stack but It requires a lot of uptime on your target to fully benefit from it. No defensive utility.

Crit : A chance to do 150% normal damage or healing. This stat suits PvP very well because you don't need a lot of uptime on your target to fully benefit from crit, It also increases our survivability thanks to crit heals. Problem is, this stat is very expansive.

Multistrike : It's basically a chance to do 130% normal damage or healing. This stat is very similar to crit but is cheaper and easier to stack.

Haste : Increases HoPo generation and reduces casting time. Both offensive & defensive utility. Imho Haste is decent but other stats are better.

Versatility : By far the best stat for PvP but waaaay too expansive. Maybe It will be viable with gear scaling in 1-2 seasons but probably not at WoD's start.


Conclusion :

Mastery should be the way to go if you want to burst people down with HA+wings+ seraphim and reliable damage.

Crit or Multistrike are similar to divine purpose, they can be better than mastery sometimes but not overall.

Versatility is way too low right now.

Hope this helps,
Regards.

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#138 Animefreak3K

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 07:47 PM

Crit combined with Multristike is a really good combination. Both benefit from each other. But as long as the stats are so low, it shouldn't be an option. Maybe we can push these stats much more through gems (which aren't implemented yet on PvP Gear).

Mastery should be (still) the "best" choice, because of it's substained dmg it is pushing.

#139 Crono_Smash

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 01:10 PM

I think it'll evolve from how the gameplay will work.

I'm considering SoJ a option with the damage buff, and if that increases our uptime so much and we use Mastery, it could work out for sustained pressure gameplay.

Crits/Multistrike and Haste is valuable for survivability but the random effect is always there... and the numbers of Crit made for PVE are different since it's 200% for PVE and 150% for PVP. Right?

Versatility is too good to be cheap, but maybe the whole package makes a solid choice too...

On top of all that, how much will we be able to customize? No reforge and a lot of changes on gems/enchants...
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#140 Animefreak3K

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 10:36 PM

Quote

I'm considering SoJ a option with the damage buff, and if that increases our uptime so much and we use Mastery, it could work out for sustained pressure gameplay.

It will :) .
You also can kite your enemy a little bit, to heal yourself, your your mates a bit.

Quote

Crits/Multistrike and Haste is valuable for survivability but the random effect is always there... and the numbers of Crit made for PVE are different since it's 200% for PVE and 150% for PVP. Right?

Correct, and right.

But the combination of Crit and Multistrike is really good. Duelled many times and it was really surprised, how good it is.
Go no MS and than Crit.
Healing and dmg can go up really good, but, it's still rng :> .

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Versatility is too good to be cheap, but maybe the whole package makes a solid choice too...

Solid choice, sure. But you only have to options with versatility:

1.) Stacking it as much as possible or,
2.) leave it alone. Why? It's too expensive to push it as a second stat.

If you push your Mainstat (strenght) and versatility as much as possible, you boost your substaind damage and your healing.
If you choose crit as your second stat, it can be really awesome with HA+Wings+ES.

Quote

On top of all that, how much will we be able to customize?

WoD is the first Addon, were Ret Paladins really have options. Even without reforge and so on.




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