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Vanguards Retribution Paladin PvP Guide (5.4.7)


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#101 Voidbringer

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 07:06 AM

Thank you very much for a detailed and smart response Originalret. It's very helpful!

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#102 Nairda

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 01:01 PM

Vanguards, did you had a chance to look at latest ret pala changes and test them out?

Edited by Nairda, 19 August 2013 - 10:01 PM.


#103 Vanguards

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:33 AM

Updated to 5.4! Which includes the latest changes ofc.
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#104 originalret

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

Hey Vangaurds and Ret community.

Firstly, thanks for the update to the guide. 1 or 2 things need a slight tweak, but the rest of it covers everything very nicely.

Quick note, Seal of Insight no longer restores mana on hit. You'll need to remove that from the Seal sub-section.

A couple of other recommendations mostly from a collection of advice from the ret sub-forum:

- when speccing into Evil is a Point of View, consider activating Seal of Insight prior to casting for the 10% spell haste increase. This will help prevent the cast being interrupted, thus locking out your holy school.

- Human Engineers should continue to run on-use pvp trinkets AS WELL AS your tinker. reason for this is it assists in prolonging your burst. The reason for taking this trinket instead of a pve chance-on-hit str trinket is the PVE trinkets do not scale to the same ilvl as Grievous gear. They are downgraded quite significantly (i think 10 ilvls). Additionally this will prevent you from acquiring your 2set trinket bonus for additional resilience. If you would prefer a survival tactic, you can use the chance-on-hit trinket with a battlemaster trinket for the increase health/free heal.

- Turn evil has a 20 yard cast range. that's right, 20 yards. Getting this cast to fire without interrupt or "out of range" issues will require some finesse. You may also want to practise your dummy casting to force interrupts out of any melee training you.

- Part of the reason Execution sentence was not considered viable in pvp was due to the effect being a magical effect, allowing it to be dispelled. In 5.4 if you dispel this, it will explode, instantly dealing the damage of the final tick on the target. this can work in your favor really well, as its the main reason we are casting that spell to begin with. The accumulating damage as it drops isnt really that significant and the sudden burst often leaves the enemy in a very vulnerable state (this also means the healers dispel is on cooldown, perfect opportunity to followup with HoJ)

#105 Kellicolus

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:05 AM

View Postoriginalret, on 26 September 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Hey Vangaurds and Ret community.

Firstly, thanks for the update to the guide. 1 or 2 things need a slight tweak, but the rest of it covers everything very nicely.

Quick note, Seal of Insight no longer restores mana on hit. You'll need to remove that from the Seal sub-section.

A couple of other recommendations mostly from a collection of advice from the ret sub-forum:

- when speccing into Evil is a Point of View, consider activating Seal of Insight prior to casting for the 10% spell haste increase. This will help prevent the cast being interrupted, thus locking out your holy school.

- Human Engineers should continue to run on-use pvp trinkets AS WELL AS your tinker. reason for this is it assists in prolonging your burst. The reason for taking this trinket instead of a pve chance-on-hit str trinket is the PVE trinkets do not scale to the same ilvl as Grievous gear. They are downgraded quite significantly (i think 10 ilvls). Additionally this will prevent you from acquiring your 2set trinket bonus for additional resilience. If you would prefer a survival tactic, you can use the chance-on-hit trinket with a battlemaster trinket for the increase health/free heal.

- Turn evil has a 20 yard cast range. that's right, 20 yards. Getting this cast to fire without interrupt or "out of range" issues will require some finesse. You may also want to practise your dummy casting to force interrupts out of any melee training you.

- Part of the reason Execution sentence was not considered viable in pvp was due to the effect being a magical effect, allowing it to be dispelled. In 5.4 if you dispel this, it will explode, instantly dealing the damage of the final tick on the target. this can work in your favor really well, as its the main reason we are casting that spell to begin with. The accumulating damage as it drops isnt really that significant and the sudden burst often leaves the enemy in a very vulnerable state (this also means the healers dispel is on cooldown, perfect opportunity to followup with HoJ)

These are some pretty decent tips. Thanks for posting :)

#106 Vanguards

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:11 PM

Updated some basics for now! Possibly more to come if playing more arenas in 5.4.7 changes my mind.

To be honest not much really changed for Rets (more like nothing). If the game pacing is significantly different this could cause some talent and other revisions, but I'll need to play more arenas to find out.
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#107 Kajis

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:32 AM

Sup Retris,

  I just want to add and share my theory-test crafting of damage/burst, which I have done on PTR for 5.4 mostly and for 5.4.7, but they are more or less the same and what you want to do with my info is your business.

-------
  To begin with, 5.4.2 -> 5.4.7 didn't bring and new changes to spells so far, but new gear with ilvl 550 is a bit different for Retri. (This will be from Horde side or non-human, since Humans don't have CC trinket, which gives secondary stats like Crit or other stats with Reforge)

  This is my pre-made PTR Char, with Ench/JC professions. Everything is reforged to Haste and then Crit and nothing else. (Purple gems are a bit diff, cuz I couldn't make another. It's STR + Stam, instead of PvP Power)

Stats:
46670 AP (STR Meta)
27%~ Haste
22%~ Crit (+10% Inquisition)
24.5%~ mastery (+9% BOM)
55.55%~ PvP Power (Should be more a bit, cuz wrong gems)

-------

  Now you may ask: "Why do we care about stats at all?" Well, they give more damage overall and more chance to crit. But the main thing is "Haste". Not many Retri know or care about it, but for Retri Paladin 20% haste is a break-point for Hammer of Wrath and Judgment (@ 4.74 sec CD) and CS (@3.55 sec) [When you have 27% Haste].
With 20%+ Haste you can actually hit 5 HOW, instead of 4, which can give you extra 100-200k damage! This is some burst boost, but at the moment with 80% resil and S14 gear you won't do much damage and only in full S15 you will have the most fun with it.

<====================================================>

  In the second part of my post, I want to share my testing (mostly in 5.4) of my Retri build. It requires some specific things to work, tho in full S15 it's not that demanding anymore compared to S13/S14. My build is not the best or perfect, it has some flaws, but it's just something fun for me to go with.

  A bit of back-story :q I have a lot of Warrior friends and you know how frustrating is to go against them, esp. since 5.4 hit with 25% def. stance buff and all the armor makes Templar Verdict a laugh. So I was looking for a max burst output, after long testing of different gems and reforging, I made a custom build for Max Burst Damage.

Max Burst Damage steps I made:

Avenging Wrath + Holy Avenger + Guardian of Kings + Wep/STR Trinket Proc + Lifeblood (Herbalism) + STR Use Gloves (Engineering)

1. Lifeblood (Herbalism) [7% Haste on use]. In S14 you couldn't have 20%+ Haste, unless you stack it or use Herba (7% haste). With only 15% Haste (17%-19% on normal build) I could pass 20% and have 5x HOW hits, instead of 4.

2. STR Use Gloves (Engineering) [2k STR on use]. Since I play Blood Elf (non-human race), like most of people I use STR Proc Trinket instead "on-use" one. With Engi you can come closer to be like human with "on-use" trinket and also get that extra stats from "CC trinket"

3. Final step was the reforging and gems. I reforged mainly to Mastery, then Haste. Gems: Red - 160 STR (You still want that STR/AP), Yellow - 320 Mastery, Green - PvP Power + Mastery.

-------

  Now you may say this is stupid in a way and it is:

  I had 6% less crit than any other Ret (It wasn't a big deal for me, cuz I've tested 25% crit vs 35% crit build on Ret and it's simply RNG),
  I had 4% less haste too, but I had Herbalism 7% "on-use" instead.
  But... I had 20% more mastery than anyone else, it scales more with gems and reforging than other stats. In full S14 I had 50% Mastery with BOM.

  Pros of Mastery (Hand of Light):
- Ignores armor
- Does 50% as holy damage of HOW/TV/CS (70%~ actual damage, if Inqusition is up) [100k HOW + 70k Mastery]

  Cons of Mastery (Hand of Light):
- There are spells which absorb magic damage
- Doesn't proc from Judgment, Exorcism

-------

  This is my Paladin from Live servers, with ilvl 550 gear, my way of reforging/geming and Engi/Herbalism professions. (You can compare stats to normal build, which are posted above) [My AP is 3k lower, but with Engi I get 4k+ AP more on burst]

Stats:
43626 AP (STR Meta)
19%~ Haste (+7% Herbalism)
16%~ Crit (+10% Inqusition)
50.5%~ mastery (+9% BOM)
56.14%~ PvP Power

<====================================================>

  My final thoughts, this build is fun to burst people down, with proper setup you can kill almost any class in one HOJ from 60-80% (depends how lucky you get with Crit procs). In 5.4 on any class in full gear (depends on type tho) with full procs I could hit 120-150k TV and and 150-170k HOW (mastery included). So far in 5.4.7 in full S15, I managed to hit 200k~ HOW . Stats scaling has changed now with new i550 gear, so I can't tell how accurate numbers are now with Normal Build vs Burst Build. If I have made any mistake in calculating or you have any questions/suggestions, you are free to discuss. I hope post wasn't too boring and  long to read and you've found something new.

#108 glonglon

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:14 AM

@Kajis,

Thanks for sharing your theorycraft knowledge, It was very interesting to read. :)

As a human ret, I'm currently running tailoring for the swordguard embroidery 4k ap proc + alchemy for the 320 strength passive bonus.

But after reading your post I think I'll drop alchemy for herbalism in order to include lifeblood in my burst macro and then I'll reforge my gear to mastery as you did.

I Hope losing 6% crit is not too much of a big deal, I felt like crits can win games sometimes.

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#109

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:02 PM

Some words about mastery - it does NOT ignore armor. Hammer part of mastery ignores armor, but both CS and TV are affected by armor, so is their part of mastery.

So when u hit a TV on a mage for 100k u got 70k mastery.

Hitting protection warrior will get u 30k TV and 21k mastery.

Ofc hammer u will get 100k +70k both on a mage and warrior.

Consclusion: in pve, mastery got about same value as crit point to point (both under haste ofc) .
In pvp, in my opinion, crit is still a bit superior.

Due to not being in a melee range 100% time, more % of dmg is dot/ranged, which isn't affected by mastery. Also, although our healing is not that great, giving instant flash crit instead of normal heal can help alot.

Don't get me wrong - mastery is still a good stat, having potential for a bigger burst, but crit is just more consistent and affects more of our abilities.

All in all - going full crit or mastery won't make or brake your dps.

Please excuse any typos.

Edited by Pawik, 22 February 2014 - 12:03 PM.


#110 glonglon

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:48 PM

@Pawik, you got some very good points here. Well, I'm still new to ret pvp but I feel like that outside of burst ret sustained damage is pretty low and it's very easy for enemies healers to heal through our damage, also the fact that we doesn't have any mortal strike debuff doesn't help :(

The only moment when I felt like I could apply some decent pressure outside of burst was with some lucky TV crits.

So I guess that maybe mastery is better for burst and crit for sustained damage. Am I wrong ?

@Kajis,

About gearing when going for mastery :

Do yo think it's a good idea to use Cloak of prowess with hit reforged to haste ?
Do you think it's a good idea to use Boots of cruelty with crit reforged to haste ?

Also, about gem slots, since strength is above everything in our stat priority list :

In yellow slots, isn't it better to use orange gems 80 str+160 mastery instead of pure mastery  ? Or even pure strength if the piece of gear doesn't have a strength socket bonus ? (pvp power is crap)

In blue slots, isn't it better to use purple gems 80 str+80pvp power instead of 160 mastery+160 pvp power ? Or even pure strength if the piece of gear doesn't have a strength socket bonus ?

Thanks in advance for your future answer.

Regards.

PS :

I noticed that vanguards +repped Kajis post, It would be great if he could also share some thoughts about crit vs mastery :)

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#111 Vanguards

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:32 AM

I personally prefer Crit. This is because I find crit to be important defensively as well for heals and such which mastery does not affect.

I currently gear by going double strength on the pants (160 + 160). I follow all the other socket bonuses with "strength" being the main stat.
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#112 glonglon

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:16 PM

@Vanguards,

Thanks for your answer, I do the same because pvp power is crap and I respect socket colors only if there is a strength bonus :)

I have three little questions for you, if you don't mind answering them :

1) About profs, for a Human ret what do you think is better ? tailoring+any prof that gives the 320 strength passive bonus or tailoring+herbalism for lifeblood ?

2) About sacred shield, can It be good against teams where I know I'll be trained all day (e.g : beastcleave/turbocleave) or battle fatigue make it worthless ?

3) Would be great If you could you give me your thoughts about the glyphs/talents setup that I use :

Against melee/mixed cleaves : TV+Burden of guilt+Divine protection (I pick the talent clemency)

Against castercleaves : TV+Burden of guilt+WoG (I pick the talent unbreakable will)

Against dotcleaves : TV+Burden of guilt+Divine shield (I pick the talent Hand of purity)

Thanks in advance for your future answer.

Regards.

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#113 Kajis

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:07 AM

Heh, nice to see that there are some active and responsive people here, didn't expect it :q

First things first, it was interesting to read other opinions. This is build is not perfect like I mentioned before, but if you make your target use "CC trinket" (And if they can't use deffensive abilities in stun like Druid barskin and etc.), with this build you can burst down from 80% to 0% in one HOJ. That's what I have been doin' in 2's with Ret/Healer [3s is easier with that, since you have 2nd dps to help]

@Pawik,
You are right, I guess I didn't explain myself corectly. But in the end it doesn't matter, with all "calculations", on burst my TV/HOW + Mastery does around 10-20k damage more than normal build. Drawback is still there tho, less crit and no mastery on Judgment/Heals. Retri Paladins sustain damage is pretty low compared to other classes and you kill people when you have CDs up, that's why I thought of this fun build, just to burst down people with highest damage, if everything is set-up right.

@Vanguards,
I agree that crit is better, it just dissapointed me. (Prob. best stat in PvP) [At least until WOD, when they nerf it to 150% crit dmg?]. But long story short, crit is just RNG, same as having Divine Purpose. In CATA you could have 1x DP per 20sec, or get super lucky (like me once) and get 7x DP proc. one after another.

When it was 5.4 PTR I tried stacking crit gems and tested 25% crit vs 35% crit.
With 25% crit, it was 6/20 crit hits.
With 35% crit, it was 7/20 crits hits.

10% crit difference, when you use all crit gems and full crit reforge and still not that huge change. I'm sure if I did the same test again, I could have like 10/20 crit hits with 25% or only 2/20 crit hits. I understand that with 35% it's a higher chance and I wish we had 35% crit passive, like in LK. I just don't bet on RNG anymore, I rather give it to sustain damage and if I crit with it, it will be much higher damage too.

@glonglon,
At the moment I use every off-set piece which has mastery as main stat, since if you reforge into mastery from other stat, it will be much lower. You could prob. go as Red - str+mastery, yellow - mastery, purple - str + pvp power. The only reason why I used those particular gems was to have 50% mastery.

I have 60% mastery in full S15 gear, the only thing I'm not sure about know if it has "drawback" or not. Because I've counted that 50% mastery gives 70% damage with Inq up, but last time I checked, 60% mastery gave me only 77% damage. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or not, but I will have to test it out.

We still have few days till new season, I will try to optimize gear and stats and hopefully get highest damage from S15 gear. I think something like 20%-21% haste for breakpoint and then everything reforged to crit/mastery should be actually good.

#114 Vanguards

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:57 AM

Quote

@Vanguards,

Thanks for your answer, I do the same because pvp power is crap and I respect socket colors only if there is a strength bonus :)

I have three little questions for you, if you don't mind answering them :

1) About profs, for a Human ret what do you think is better ? tailoring+any prof that gives the 320 strength passive bonus or tailoring+herbalism for lifeblood ?

2) About sacred shield, can It be good against teams where I know I'll be trained all day (e.g : beastcleave/turbocleave) or battle fatigue make it worthless ?

3) Would be great If you could you give me your thoughts about the glyphs/talents setup that I use :

Against melee/mixed cleaves : TV+Burden of guilt+Divine protection (I pick the talent clemency)

Against castercleaves : TV+Burden of guilt+WoG (I pick the talent unbreakable will)

Against dotcleaves : TV+Burden of guilt+Divine shield (I pick the talent Hand of purity)

Thanks in advance for your future answer.

Regards.


1.) I think tailoring is great + any other profession to provide the bonus 320 Strength for humans. I don't really like lifeblood much, even though haste is great for Rets I find the passive strength to be better.

2.) I've attempted to use Sacred Shield, but it doesn't seem to beat Flash of Light no matter what. One of the patches previously (5.2? 5.3? forgot) buffed Flash of Light immensely for Rets, this made it better than SS even if we get trained. Same story with Eternal Flame.

3.) I don't find Divine Shield glyph to be needed, I would usually just use WoG glyph or Judgement glyph as you did vs caster cleaves, but pretty much we have the same ideas for Glyphs. I really only use DS glyph for when I'm afraid my bubble will get shattered / MD'd or 2s.
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#115 glonglon

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

Thanks for your answers Kajis and Vanguards, It was very helpful <3

View PostKajis, on 24 February 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

I have 60% mastery in full S15 gear, the only thing I'm not sure about know if it has "drawback" or not. Because I've counted that 50% mastery gives 70% damage with Inq up, but last time I checked, 60% mastery gave me only 77% damage. I'm not sure if I did something wrong or not, but I will have to test it out.

We still have few days till new season, I will try to optimize gear and stats and hopefully get highest damage from S15 gear. I think something like 20%-21% haste for breakpoint and then everything reforged to crit/mastery should be actually good.

Do not hesitate to share your testing results, It'll be very interesting for everyone to read :)

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#116 Kajis

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 03:17 PM

Hey there Retris,

I had some time today and I did all the testing on 5.4.7 PTR in full S15 gear. I optimized gear for both builds, which is in my opinion is better way to deal more damage, without loosing anything in particular. There are a lot of numbers, so I hope you are prepared.

While we already discussed about drawbacks of burst build, I can safely say that it does more damage on burst than normal build.

Normal Retri build vs Burst Build damage:

I tested TV/HOW damage on MW Monk in full S15 (One of the squishiest classes for me) and result was that:

Burst build [50%+10% Mastery]:
185k HOW Crit/90k non-crit and 175k TV Crit/75k non-crit.

Burst build [50% without BOM]:
170k HOW Crit and 160k TV Crit. So 10% of mastery is roughly 10-15k damage on burst.

Normal build [25% mastery + 10%]:
145K HOW Crit/70k non-crit and 125K TV Crit/60k non-crit.

This numbers can vary between 5k-10k, but you get the idea.

Gear Optimization:

Normal Gear (Enchanter + JC):

For normal gear, I used all off-set pieces which had haste. Reforge: Haste>Crit>Mast, Gems: Red - STR, Yellow - STR+Haste, Blue - STR+PvP Power.

Before and after stats (unbuffed), when I got:
[Neck: Crit/Exp->Mast]
[Belt: Crit/Mast (No reforge)]
[Boots: Crit/Mast (No reforge)]

46,6k AP -> 46,6k AP
27% Haste -> 21% Haste (Since 20% Haste is breakpoint and I don't think you need more than that)
22% Crit -> 23.5% Crit
24.5% Mastery -> 31% Mastery (Should increase some damage and you could play around to get more)
56% PvP Power -> 56% PvP Power

Burst Gear (Herbalist + Engineer):

We talked how Crit is important and it really is, so I got more now. I dropped some haste, since I have Herbalsim (7.5% haste on use), I also changed gems to: Red - STR, Yellow - STR+Mast, Blue - STR+PvP Power.

Before and after stats (unbuffed):

43,6k AP -> 44,6k AP (1k AP is nice boost for mastery drop)
19% Haste -> 15% Haste (+7.5% Haste from Herba). I will test this out more, but I think it's fine for breakpoint.
16% Crit -> 20% Crit (Now I only lack 3% crit compared to normal build)
50% Mast -> 45% Mastery (Got more AP and Crit)
56% PvP Power -> 56% PvP Power

-----------

Now you see the difference and what you do with this info is your thing. In my opinion, since S14->S15 (100k HP difference) you need a bit more damage, because it's really stupid what Blizz has done. I used to hit 170k in S14 on 470k HP and now I hit 180k in S15 on 570k HP...

So my suggestion is: Get 20-21% passive Crit/Haste and reforge rest to Mastery for more damage.

#117 playtoshift93

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:40 AM

Hey there,

Background info

2,5 as Retmp in 2 seasons
2,4 as ret dk (lol) in 2s.

Loving reading about the theory-crafting but I'm not good enough at it to contribute! Just wondering if i could get a few questions answered.

I have always been a massive fan of holy prism and am not looking forward to dropping it, can i use execution sentence effectively to heal as well if we are being trained hard after cds?

e.g vs LSD - who survive our initial burst (most probably playing PHS this season) , will it be as good when kiting and waiting for the kill opportunity?

Also: Retmp... Any ideas this season? I think maybe Retmshaman might work better as priests seem to lack the mana regen needed for a comp like that. But i'd love to hear thoughts.


A few of my thoughts:

I find Ret to be both frustrating and rewarding to play this season (so far wargames/bgs etc **have not tried PTR**), it seems like even without the increased ilvl you can still keep your team alive until dampening (so many will hate that comment), however damage outside of CD's is possibly at an all time or TBC low . I realise it will increase as gear does however it still seems incredibly diminished compared to my alts which i dabble with (currently every class but monk/rogue).


Quick edit: Keep up the good work will enjoy reading more about the progression of the theorycrafting and any new ideas people have about making us more viable this season.


Regards

Playtowin - EU Ravencrest

Edited by playtoshift93, 25 February 2014 - 02:41 AM.


#118 glonglon

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:53 PM

Hi playtoshift, even If I'm new to ret I feel like I can help you :

View Postplaytoshift93, on 25 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

I have always been a massive fan of holy prism and am not looking forward to dropping it, can i use execution sentence effectively to heal as well if we are being trained hard after cds?

No, holy prism damage is shitty, execution sentence can crit from 50-100k. I found out that the best moment to use it is during your avenging wrath+holy avenger burst cause it'll do significantly more damage. If my avenging wrath+holy avenger burst is not available I wait for my Insignia of victory proc to use it.  

You should use execution sentence offensively most of the time, this extra damage burst will often win you games and it can kill hunters in deterrence which is funny :)

View Postplaytoshift93, on 25 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

e.g vs LSD - who survive our initial burst (most probably playing PHS this season) , will it be as good when kiting and waiting for the kill opportunity?

PHS gets stomped by LSD just dodge them, their spread pressure is just insane.

Anyways, my general strategy against this comp is to start very offensively by rushing them with an AoE blinding light then burst the lock to force some defensive cooldowns, then you kill warlock pet (most of them are playing with soul link) and burst him when you CD comes back you'll do significantly more damage to him without his pet.

Ele shaman is also a viable kill target but I had more success by going on the lock.

LSD doesn't have any way to chase you so do not hesitate to fall back if you have no burst or CC available for the healer.

Also you should always kill druids mushrooms & healing stream totem asap, they heal for a lot !

Try to save your devotion aura for the ascendance.

Use your hand of purity on the haunt target. (hand of purity counters haunt pretty well).

I noticed that LSHpally is even harder than LSD, I seriously think It's impossible to beat a LSHpally as PHS. Btw, It would be great if Vanguards could share his strat against LSD :)

View Postplaytoshift93, on 25 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

Also: Retmp... Any ideas this season? I think maybe Retmshaman might work better as priests seem to lack the mana regen needed for a comp like that. But i'd love to hear thoughts.

Hankx made a very interesting PTR feedback about comps, maybe It'll interest you :

http://www.arenajunk...r/#entry4059014

Btw, It would be also great if Vanguards could share some thoughts about viable comps that we can play outside of PHS :)

View Postplaytoshift93, on 25 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

however damage outside of CD's is possibly at an all time or TBC low . I realise it will increase as gear does however it still seems incredibly diminished compared to my alts which i dabble with (currently every class but monk/rogue).

I noticed that my sustained damage can nearly be decent against some classes like mages & hunters but It's true that ret sustained damage is a joke :(

Hope this helps,
Regards.

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#119 Kajis

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:28 PM

I see Retri Paladin as Burst-Support spec and it's actually pretty good for that. I think, even tho Retris sustain damage is low, it's not a big problem, you just have to get another DPS who has it. And with your Burst + sustain/burst of another DPS you can easilly kill people in CC chain.

On a side note, I think Retri is more than viable, it's just not that popular compared to other "OP-FOTM" specs and it's kinda true, but I'm actually fine with that. If you want to feel OP and have ez games, just have spare Alt which are similar to your main spec. (I have only 3x Platers now :q). It was funny for me when Blizz said that this season had 8x Specs (Including healers) who dominated arena compared to previous season. Pretty interesting and sad info, heh.. 8 Specs out of 28 (Without 5 Tanks)

#120 playtoshift93

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 11:15 AM

View Postglonglon, on 25 February 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

Hi playtoshift, even If I'm new to ret I feel like I can help you :



No, holy prism damage is shitty, execution sentence can crit from 50-100k. I found out that the best moment to use it is during your avenging wrath+holy avenger burst cause it'll do significantly more damage. If my avenging wrath+holy avenger burst is not available I wait for my Insignia of victory proc to use it.  

You should use execution sentence offensively most of the time, this extra damage burst will often win you games and it can kill hunters in deterrence which is funny :)



PHS gets stomped by LSD just dodge them, their spread pressure is just insane.

Anyways, my general strategy against this comp is to start very offensively by rushing them with an AoE blinding light then burst the lock to force some defensive cooldowns, then you kill warlock pet (most of them are playing with soul link) and burst him when you CD comes back you'll do significantly more damage to him without his pet.

Ele shaman is also a viable kill target but I had more success by going on the lock.

LSD doesn't have any way to chase you so do not hesitate to fall back if you have no burst or CC available for the healer.

Also you should always kill druids mushrooms & healing stream totem asap, they heal for a lot !

Try to save your devotion aura for the ascendance.

Use your hand of purity on the haunt target. (hand of purity counters haunt pretty well).

I noticed that LSHpally is even harder than LSD, I seriously think It's impossible to beat a LSHpally as PHS. Btw, It would be great if Vanguards could share his strat against LSD :)



Hankx made a very interesting PTR feedback about comps, maybe It'll interest you :

http://www.arenajunk...r/#entry4059014

Btw, It would be also great if Vanguards could share some thoughts about viable comps that we can play outside of PHS :)



I noticed that my sustained damage can nearly be decent against some classes like mages & hunters but It's true that ret sustained damage is a joke :(

Hope this helps,
Regards.


Thank you the for time and effort put into the reply! Everything was helpful.

View PostKajis, on 25 February 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

I see Retri Paladin as Burst-Support spec and it's actually pretty good for that. I think, even tho Retris sustain damage is low, it's not a big problem, you just have to get another DPS who has it. And with your Burst + sustain/burst of another DPS you can easilly kill people in CC chain.

On a side note, I think Retri is more than viable, it's just not that popular compared to other "OP-FOTM" specs and it's kinda true, but I'm actually fine with that. If you want to feel OP and have ez games, just have spare Alt which are similar to your main spec. (I have only 3x Platers now :q). It was funny for me when Blizz said that this season had 8x Specs (Including healers) who dominated arena compared to previous season. Pretty interesting and sad info, heh.. 8 Specs out of 28 (Without 5 Tanks)

Yeah ofc i play every other class other than rogue (which i hate) and WW monk (cba at 85). But i find ret just more fun and i find i am better at it than other classes. Thanks for your input!

Edited by playtoshift93, 26 February 2014 - 11:15 AM.





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