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s9 problems/things needing adjusting


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#1 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:03 PM

i'd like to prioritize s9's problems for shits and giggles. i'll try to order these from my experiences:
-need faction vs faction bgs and rbgs, if there was a fuck to be given about roleplayers idk reskin the enemies for each team to the opposing faction
-healing priests lol
-necrotic strike - blizzard: "we're taking out mortal strike for cata, it was unbalanced... loljk spammable stackable mortal strike + curse of tongues"
-ret lack of dispel
-smoke bomb
-warrior burst, ineffectiveness of trinketing throwdown
-ring of frost
-feral bleeds
-ice lance
-sunbeam (taken by itself it is OP right now, idk if moonkin as a whole are underpowered right now or just no one plays them)
-rogue's vanish changes, cloak changes and recuperate, combat readiness, and smoke bomb make them much harder to kill than other classes
-self healing in general (fuuuuuuuu warlocks)
-holy paladins probably heal too hard
-everything about strand of the gaycients is a problem, it is a despicable hoax of a bg
-hunters are a weaker mirror of frost mages
-the homogenization that occurred in 4.0, but there's nothing that will be done about that
-just fucking end r1 ties; higher win% or whoever has more wins getting the title would end the faggotry easily
-tol barad's current state is a fraud
-these are major things, the list of bugs that classes have i'm sure will be addressed

that's about it, i think. it's been a good season, much better without icc gear and infinitly more balanced than s5 was. i just want the stuff on this list adjusted. it should be noted that if some of the broken things got adjusted, its class would need to be looked at again as a whole.

#2 Nadagast

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:08 PM

Necrotic Strike isn't Mortal Strike.  It's delayed damage.  Maybe it's too much delayed damage, but it's still just delayed damage.

I don't know why people keep calling it MS.

#3 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:16 PM

absorbing heals is similar to reducing heals, correctly their not identicle

#4 Nadagast

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:23 PM

They appear similar on the surface but look deeper and they are very different effects.

NS is delayed damage.  It's basically just damage that takes effect when the person gets healed.

MS is a damage multiplier.  It makes all damage you put into a target X more effective (more difficult to heal) where X = 1 / (1 - MS%).  At 50% MS, X = 2.  At 10% MS, X = 1.11

#5 Zez

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:31 PM

so SP QQ + some generally known problems, good thread
delete thread before it turns into QQ,trolling,flaming etc.

#6 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:48 PM

Nadagast said:

They appear similar on the surface but look deeper and they are very different effects.

NS is delayed damage.  It's basically just damage that takes effect when the person gets healed.

MS is a damage multiplier.  It makes all damage you put into a target X more effective (more difficult to heal) where X = 1 / (1 - MS%).  At 50% MS, X = 2.  At 10% MS, X = 1.11

i think i just got nadagast'd. i just had to look deeper, i can see how ms is a multiplier and ns is an addition. they can look similar in some situations: old ms on a target = 40k heal healing for 20k. ns debuff for 20k = 40k heal healing for 20k.

i'm hoping the resil fix to ns is enough to balance it better.

#7 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:51 PM

Zez said:

so SP QQ + some generally known problems, good thread
delete thread before it turns into QQ,trolling,flaming etc.

haha yeah maybe i should, idk its good to understand some things better, and ignore any trolling that pops up? if only blizz just had a gladiator only suggestion box or something

#8 Darckli

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:55 PM

Nadagast said:

They appear similar on the surface but look deeper and they are very different effects.

NS is delayed damage.  It's basically just damage that takes effect when the person gets healed.

MS is a damage multiplier.  It makes all damage you put into a target X more effective (more difficult to heal) where X = 1 / (1 - MS%).  At 50% MS, X = 2.  At 10% MS, X = 1.11

It is true they are different effects, but it amounts to the same thing. Specifically, it makes damage more difficult to heal. Both NS and MS are "delayed damage" that only take effect is the player is healed.

If you do 1000 damage, with a 50% MS, it takes 2000 healing to heal through it. If you do 1000 damage, with a 1000 healing absorb, it takes 2000 healing to heal through it.

The only difference here is MS is a percentage reduction in healing, and a percentage increase in the effectiveness of your damage. NS is a static amount, but does the exact same thing: makes your damage more effective in the face of healing.

In principle they might be "very different," but in practice they have almost identical effects. I don't know about how well the numbers line up, especially since NS is unaffected by resil.

#9 zecatone

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:58 PM

where are the changes for the wizards?

#10 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 02:59 PM

Darckli said:

In principle they might be "very different," but in practice they have almost identical effects.

yup, and for the purposes of the thread topic ns might be stronger than ms was because you can stack it on a target or off target, and it has a curse of tongues. in practice i'm not sure how it compares to healing negated, you'd have to go at it with old recount parses and a calculator.

#11 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:00 PM

zecatone said:

where are the changes for the wizards?

what abilities do you think are OP right now?

#12 Cyanne

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:02 PM

fatherdon1 said:


-rogue's vanish changes, cloak changes and recuperate, combat readiness, and smoke bomb make them much harder to kill than other classes


erm... can you elaborate on that one please? :confused::confused::confused:

Do you mean cloak doing what is suposed to do every time? Like, let's say, every other proper skill/talent?

#13 devila

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:06 PM

Pretty comprehensive list imo.

Antihit said:

You are honestly the biggest fucking retard I have ever seen on this forum

tmy said:

I posted the only serious response and you didnt even thank me you ungrateful asshole ill never help you again



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#14 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:06 PM

Cyanne said:

erm... can you elaborate on that one please? :confused::confused::confused:

rogues got 5 changes/additions with those mentioned, and combined they make rogues one of the hardest things to kill if not the hardest.

the cloak change by itself makes sense and leads to less rng which is good, so that should stay, but all of those new survival abilities together shot rogues defense from underpowered to overpowered, i think.

*edit* i think blizz overcompensated because they were reacting to the harsh effects rogues were dealt by icc gear, which has no equivalent this season.

#15 zecatone

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:13 PM

fatherdon1 said:

what abilities do you think are OP right now?

I only see you asking for changes on melee classes and we all know caster comps are still over top.

#16 Cryzz

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:18 PM

fatherdon1 said:

rogues got 5 changes/additions with those mentioned, and combined they make rogues one of the hardest things to kill if not the hardest.

the cloak change by itself makes sense and leads to less rng which is good, so that should stay, but all of those new survival abilities together shot rogues defense from underpowered to overpowered, i think.

*edit* i think blizz overcompensated because they were reacting to the harsh effects rogues were dealt by icc gear, which has no equivalent this season.

Rogues have always been hard to kill with CDs up, however, lets not forget that they removed prep from Mutilate spec, removing a second evasion and a second Vanish.
Sub Rogues on the other hand are really hard to kill, but sub dmg makes up for that tbh ^^

#17 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:32 PM

Cryzz said:

Rogues have always been hard to kill with CDs up, however, lets not forget that they removed prep from Mutilate spec, removing a second evasion and a second Vanish.
Sub Rogues on the other hand are really hard to kill, but sub dmg makes up for that tbh ^^

good points, i'd have to qualify my points:
-subtlety is too hard to kill atm
-mutilate's play style is fucking depressing, putting in a 30 second tunnel one target button? just depressing, 30s of tunneling, plowing damage. it just promotes a simpler strategy, not cool

maybe it's just my comp but we can't kill mutilate either, the prep isn't needed, and about subtlety; we can't even get him to cheat death.

#18 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:41 PM

zecatone said:

I only see you asking for changes on melee classes and we all know caster comps are still over top.

well it's pretty interesting actually, this is the rundown of my battlegroup's 3v3 comps

POPULAR TEAM COMPOSITIONS
melee cleave = tsg 8%
balanced = rls 4%
caster cleave = shattreeplay 4%
melee cleave = kitty cleave 3.5%
balanced = plw 3.5%
balanced = rmp 3%
balanced = rps
caster cleave = shadowplay
balanced = shadowcleave 2.5%

there's a priest dk druid comp, but i have no idea what comp that is because the armory doesn't say the specs in the POPULAR TEAM COMPOSITIONS thing.

you may have a point, but you'd have to flesh it out. dont just say whole comps or classes are OP when in fact there are just certain talents and abilities that are OP, which are the ones you should bring up. i am asking for changes to casters (ice lance spam, RoF, warlock self healing, paladin healing).

#19 Catwomanqt

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:42 PM

Lets not forget giving elemental shamans some kind of survivability.

#20 Donald

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 03:47 PM

Catwomanqt said:

Lets not forget giving elemental shamans some kind of survivability.

well i'm basing this off of my experience in 3s this season and in 300 games i haven't seen one ele sham, do they suck or is resto/enh just much more appealing this season?




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