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PvPing on a Rogue Makes me Want to Quit


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#41 Czarlol

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:15 AM

Ah thanks for the update man. Case closed.

A rogue beat him in a duel, rogues are fine.


No rogues are fine because they can shit on people in duels, and as sub they can shut casters down in 3s (the only bracket that matters). Haven't faced any mut rogues but from what I have seen in bgs they hit... hard.

Edit: Am I saying they are OP? Hell no. Am I saying I don't understand people saying they are going to quit playing rogue because you guys are so "incredibly weak"... Yes I am.
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#42 maarko

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:20 AM

Its not that rogues are incredibly weak, they are incredibly boring due to the current design of the class.
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#43 Mashlol

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:26 AM

I am so sick of people complaining about rogues being weak...

This was my experience today with a terrible rogue:

Garrote 5 second silence into Cloak 5 more seconds of free damage kidney shot 5 second stun (15 seconds of non stop dmg so far)... once KS ends or I trinket --> vanish... I can't pull him out of stealth because of 4 second immunity yay I have to let him reopen... similar shit as before maybe he just wants to shadowdance with garrotes and cheapshots whatever... finish with a blind... reopen. I'm dead about 2 minutes ago.

Nothing I can do to stop it, I can't pull you out because of vanish 4 second immunity bs and I can't do any damage because I am either silenced/stunned or you are cloaked/stealthed.

God forbid I survive... you just blow sprint run away and re-stealth.

Yeah and I'll l2p once I am able to hit you with a fucking instant spell.

And if I port and you happen to not have vanish/blind/sprint (to run away and re-stealth)? Smoke bomb --> restealth. I can't touch you, do you realize how incredibly frustrating that is?


And in arena rogues are very viable. In 3v3 a sub rogue shuts casters down and mut hits like a truck. And do I have to mention smokebomb is basically an execute?


We're not really complaining about rogues not being viable. I personally hate the fact that we can 5sec silence with garrote, then 6sec kidney, and then follow that with a 5sec cloak, but if by any chance whatever it is we are killing is still alive by then, we pretty much lose as mutilate. We have no prep, and after vendetta is down, we have a much lower chance of killing that target.

As sub, we have no chance of killing anything outside of a dance + cooldowns. For example, sometimes we can't even manage to kill a warrior with a full fear on his pally into a full sap into a smokebomb kidney on the warr WITH my priest assisting as much as he can...

The main reason we are complaining is the current rogue playstyle. Speaking from a Disc Rogue perspective, if we are to win as mut, we basically have to zerg something down in 20 sec, or at least before vendetta is over. It's like popping bladestorm out of the gates, I just open and vendetta and pray it dies. If they have any sort of decent peels theres no way I'm going to kill anything. Not having prep after having it since FOREVER makes you feel handicapped.

As far as sub goes, you feel more in control, but as you burst into people, their health goes up. I can't manage to out damage a locks self healing as sub outside of dance...how do you expect me to kill him with a healer?

It's just the clunky playstyle of mut, and the low damage of sub that we are complaining about.

I agree that rogues aren't as bad as some classes, but obviously they are in a bad state as well.
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#44 Sura

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:47 AM

i agree / i feel horrible about rogue atm and actually considering swapping my main even though i played this class since vanilla GG

can we just have some ability where we can pull our target with some sort of chains just like ninjas do in ninja movies? srsly assasination talent is not designed to assassinate but rather ' hey i'm here would u come to me so i can poison u to death?' concept in this game.. lol

i feel pretty worthless when i play arena at this point where i can't do a damn thing to save my partner when they're getting facerolled by OP classes while i normally get stuck by snares/cc when i'm out of my cds.

i'd say its pretty pathetic for now unless you have some great partners who could compensate the rogue's disadvantages.
most sad thing about rogue class is that it seems like we're so much dependant on others at least in arenas and can't really 'carry' others which makes us very vulnerable to replacements whenever we seem to be weakened.
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Since Arena Season 1.
AKA - Lasae / Tashanii / Sura.

#45 Reesezpiecez

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:50 AM

Playing RMP with a disc priest, not really losing to much, sitting at 3100 TR/3300 MMR ( blah blah blah mmr is bugged doesn't matter ). Obviously its not the strongest comp but I don't even have synergy with my partners and we aren't that great at RMP/our respective classes and we still do well. I think people are overreacting when they tell you "SHADOW RMP OR BUST"
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#46 Kzrs

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 04:52 AM

Make Sprint 100%
Make Elusiveness baseline
Make Sprint remove slows/snares/roots
Make Shadowstep Baseline+Remove Roots

Fucking play Mutilate all of Cataclysm.
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#47 Wise

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 05:19 AM

Preparation baseline, mutilate balanced towards damage, sub balanced towards utility, hemo the main attack of sub (I've always wanted hemo to give me a 4sec haste buff, and with the old +damage bonus to complement eachother).

Backstab should be the dagger equalent of sinister strike for combat (aka PvE).

Though, regardless what's being done, something needs to be done, the current state is simply ridiculous.
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#48 Tomou

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:41 AM

Make Sprint 100%
Make Elusiveness baseline
Make Sprint remove slows/snares/roots
Make Shadowstep Baseline+Remove Roots

Fucking play Mutilate all of Cataclysm.


either ss remove roots or spring remove roots would be fine. both might be a bit over the top.

as it is, warriors are more mobile than rogues are (charge, intercept, intervene, heroic leap, bladestorm vs. shadowstep, sprint, vanish) and it's depressing
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#49 Paixao

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 07:58 AM

either ss remove roots or spring remove roots would be fine. both might be a bit over the top.

as it is, warriors are more mobile than rogues are (charge, intercept, intervene, heroic leap, bladestorm vs. shadowstep, sprint, vanish) and it's depressing


smoke bomb > warriors.
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#50 Wise

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:37 AM

smoke bomb > warriors.

intervene > smoke bomb
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#51 dkweezley

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 08:45 AM

you dont need mobility as mut stuffs dead before it knows whats going on
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#52 Dinolz

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:33 AM

you dont need mobility as mut stuffs dead before it knows whats going on


JK
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#53 Eeko

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 10:47 AM

shadowstep will never be baseline.
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#54 Wise

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 11:09 AM

shadowstep will never be baseline.

Nope, but Preparation very well could be.
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#55 Relisted

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 12:26 PM

other than priests and maybe hunters rogues are the worst class in arena atm, nothing else even comes close. theres so many things wrong with the class right now and the fact that blizz is not even beginning to address any of them is starting to make this xpac look pretty pitiful from a rogues point of view. quite depressing.

R.I.P season 3 :P
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#56 Lafie

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 12:42 PM

And the new vanish, oh god no :(
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#57 lovelol

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 01:27 PM

And the new vanish, oh god no :(


they kill you.. but, it's not bad at all, used in the right way you can take off the burst, but taking some damage, and beeing healed while stealthed. (shitty english soz)

i really love it because of lagg in my wirless conection+people with 250 ms staying in front of me but not standing there...(so many front bs...yeah, in front of my enemy so many times i hit with a bs...) then i vanish+garrote/cs and there is noone... i usually try to kidney+shd/vanish+garrote at the end of kidneyshot before they can jump or something.
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P.S. To stay on topic.... uh... BUFF ENGINEERING IT IS NOT GADGETY ENOUGH! WE MUST ADD USELESS CRAP!! INSTALL PORTABLE TOASTER.


:rogue:FIRST TO DIE, LOSES!:rogue:

#58 Phood

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 02:03 PM

brb rerolling warrior
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[15:22] chargester: if lich kings mount is invincible how come you can see it?

#59 tehcel

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:45 PM

same atm this class sucks hard. rogue and hunter are out of order
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#60 Laserfeet

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 03:59 PM

I don't know where it goes from here for rogues. Sometimes I feel really powerful and useful (smokebomb in 5s and bgs, basically) other times I feel inferior to other melee (when a warrior or feral is on me or my priest, which is much more difficult to peel now with cs/ks dr combined with priests being the weakest they've been in a long time). I think shadowdance will always be better when casters are what's dominant, and right now on stormstrike at least most of the teams are dk/feral/warrior cleave combinations. I feel like my damage is acceptable in most cases, except when dealing with these anti-melee plate types.


my other main issue now is redirect bugging out. My combo points disappear and redirect goes on cooldown, I can see how this could happen because of HAT. The problem is that it's on GCD and a poor timed crit could fuck everything over. I feel like well timed redirect kidney smokebomb swaps are going to be a key way to get kills as rmp but this sequence involves 3 globals from the rogue, which is easily enough time for a compotent warrior to get off an intercept->disarm in time for his healer to get away from your shadowstep. I think a change blizzard needs to consider is making redirect allow the rogues combo points to build on the rogue instead of the target for a decent amount of time, in addition to taking it off gcd. It would be amazing if we could have that passively, I can't really see them doing this though.
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