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Gear/Stat Discussion (Season 9)


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#1 Gatesz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 03:31 PM

In an attempt to reduce the number of threads discussing specific items, stats, or caps I'm continuing this thread from last season. The idea of this thread is basic information regarding stats for anyone new or unsure about what they should be aiming for, and to provide an area to discuss the about optimal gear etc.

Basics

Hit Cap- The hit cap for melee is 5% (presuming a 2 handed weapon). 601 Hit rating will give you 5.00% hit rating and therefore could be considered the "cap". Getting 5% melee through hit rating will also get you the 4% spell hit that you need for spells to not miss. It's very important to cap your melee hit rating because both Frost and Unholy have tons reliance on strike damage.

Spell Penetration- Since most of the +resists buffs have been homogenized it's much easier to select the proper amount of spell penetration. Most likely going for 195 spell penetration will be ideal in order to counter +resistance buffs. You will need the full 195 spell penetration for spells like Shadow Protection, Resistance Aura + Kings, etc. A easy way to acquire the cap for JCs will be to get the cloak enchant for spell penetration(http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74192), 1 Stormy Ocean Sapphire (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=73343), and 1 Stormy Chimera's Eye (http://www.wowhead.com/item=52263).

Frost Stat Priority-

Hit Rating (to cap)-> Spell Penetration (to 195)-> Strength-> Mastery-> Haste Rating-> Critical Strike Rating-> Expertise.

Unholy Stat Priority-

Hit Rating (to cap)-> Spell Penetration (to 195)-> Strength-> Haste Rating-> Critical Strike Rating-> Mastery-> Expertise. Haste is super powerful for Unholy since it also increases rune regeneration speed. Expertise and Mastery are very blah stats for this spec.

Where to use PvE gear- If you're looking to use 4/5 Viscous Gladiator's Dreadplate gear a good slot to use a PvE helm would be the shoulder slot since it has expertise on it. Another possible slot to use PvE gear in would be trinket since you can get amazingly powerful stats + procs from PvE trinkets. Keep in mind that for every slot besides weapon PvE gear has a slightly higher ilvl alternative, so for a net gain in stats it can be advantageous to use a little bit of PvE gear.

Specific Slots


Trinkets-

Vicious Gladiator's Medallion of Tenacity:
(340 resilience, Use: Removes all movement impairing effects and all effects which cause loss of control of your character) http://www.wowhead.com/item=60800
The best trinket to get the "pvp trinket" 2 minute cooldown use. Your options for medallions are resilience, critical strike rating, expertise and spirit.

Vicious Gladiator's Badge of Victory:
(340 resilience, Use: 1605 strength for 20 sec) http://www.wowhead.com/item=61034
Another great source of resilience, while also giving you a 1605 strength use that you can use in combination with other cooldowns to achieve maximum damage potential. This on-use makes the trinket (in my honest opinion) the best choice for the second trinket slot since it provides you on demand burst potential when combined with cooldowns like Unholy Frenzy or Pillars of Frost.

Vicious Gladiator's Insignia of Victory
(340 resilience, proc- 963 strength for 20 sec) http://www.wowhead.com/item=61046
Similar to the above trinket, it's a good source of resilience and extra damage. It provides less strength, and more randomness than the Badge of Victory, but it's on a 45 second internal cd (someone please test) versus a 2 minute on-use cd.

Vicious Gladiator's Emblem of Tenacity:
(340 resiliance, on-use- 11550 health increase for 15 seconds) http://www.wowhead.com/item=61032
Same resilience as the other second trinket options, but instead of having offensive proc/use it has a defensive on-use. With the way that season 9 arena is currently playing out, it seems to be based more on momentum, control, and mana conservation than pure gib-fests. This trinket provides no mana benefit for your healer because you lose the health that you get from it, the frequency where you would die without having this trinket would seeminling less than it would previously be. However if you notice that your survival seems to be lacking for whatever reason you may want to choose this trinket over the strength proc/use ones.

Crushing Weight:
(363 strenght, Proc- 2178 haste 15 sec)  http://www.wowhead.com/item=65118
A massive amount of passive strength, with the addition of a very unholy friendly proc makes this a very powerful trinket, especially if you have access to the heroic version. Gearing is all about balance so if you use this trinket over one that would provide resilience make sure that you're not too squishy without the resilience you'd otherwise have.

Weapons- No reason not to use the pvp ones available anymore. No longer gives attack power like previous seasons, but gives strength for the 2 hand Mace/Axe/Sword. Same top end and speed as the 372 ones so you're not missing out on damage. If your race has a +expertise to certain weapon types make sure you buy the correct one. If you happen to be Dual-Wield frost you're also going to want to use the PvP 372 weapons as well, 2.6/2.6 strength versions.

Presence

Unholy Presence- Best PvP presence for dealing damage. The haste increases rune regeneration speed, you get 15% run speed instead of having to use the inferior boot enchant, and you get a 1.0 GCD which is incredible for pvp.

Blood Presence- You don't want to just sit in frost presence because you're going to lose a significant amount of damage. However blood presence is incredibly useful when you're taking too much damage for your healer to manage. Blood presence is especially helpful against melee cleaves because you get the increased health, reduced damage, AND increased armor to help you survive the other teams onslaught.

Frost Presence- Not very useful in pvp because you lose to much. 15% run speed, 1.0 second global cooldown, and 15% haste beats 10% (15% with frost talents) damage and 1-2 extra runic power for runes used.

Remember, a fair amount of this is based on opinion so do not misinterpret it as me attempting to preach fact. If you feel that I'm misrepresenting something, or just wrong go ahead and suggest an alternative in a constructive manner.

If you have any specific chardev/gear plans feel free to share them and I'll provide a link to it in this first post.
Example: Gatesz Unholy- http://chardev.org/?profile=1824

#2 yusehz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 04:19 PM

great guide for new dk's. +rep
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#3 Shunyata

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 05:58 PM

Reported for sticky.
Because he's the hero Azeroth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll bash him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a utility class, a chains spammer. A death knight.

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#4 Mionee

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 06:02 PM

it's haste > crit regardless of everything for frost. mastery vs haste is still very debatable but haste vs crit isn't.

You might also want to add a bit more trinkets to the list (especially Fury of Angerforge, Impatience of Youth, Mark of Khardros... and lastly Mirror of Broken Images. I'm honestly super-surprised no-one has talked about that trinket yet, I guess not enough people are exalted with Tol Barad for now but it's completely ridiculous especially now that nearly noone has spellpen)

stickying this anyway

#5 Gatesz

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Posted 17 December 2010 - 06:11 PM

Mionee said:

it's haste > crit regardless of everything for frost. mastery vs haste is still very debatable but haste vs crit isn't.

You might also want to add a bit more trinkets to the list (especially Fury of Angerforge, Impatience of Youth, Mark of Khardros... and lastly Mirror of Broken Images. I'm honestly super-surprised no-one has talked about that trinket yet, I guess not enough people are exalted with Tol Barad for now but it's completely ridiculous especially now that nearly noone has spellpen)

stickying this anyway

Yeah wasn't sure for frost because I know pve haste is better for 2h and crit is better for DW, fixing it. Mind unstickying the old one?

#6 Nitestrike

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 03:28 AM

Missing: Impatience of Youth, http://www.wowhead.com/item=62469

One of the best PvP trinkets for Frost, and doesn't require raiding.

Also, I think Crit is better then haste for Non-oblit frost. Going very heavy HB/NS builds run out of GCD to use RP/Runes, so faster runes isn't nearly as big of a benefit as standard Oblit or Unholy builds.

#7 Feruswerre

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 01:23 PM

You used some hybrid gems that provided both hit and haste in your gear set.  I'm of the opinion that socketing any reforge-able stats at all is wasted itemization with strength and resilience both being so much stronger than the secondary stats; the opportunity cost for socketing haste or hit is simply too high.

#8 Gatesz

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 01:53 PM

Feruswerre said:

You used some hybrid gems that provided both hit and haste in your gear set.  I'm of the opinion that socketing any reforge-able stats at all is wasted itemization with strength and resilience both being so much stronger than the secondary stats; the opportunity cost for socketing haste or hit is simply too high.

I feel like that build doesn't really need any more resilience so as a way to achieve socket bonuses might as well go with a strength/haste hybrid so you're still getting some strength, in addition to the haste + bonus. I see it as (example chest) it's 20 strength (20 more from red gem than orange gem) versus 20 haste + 20 resilience, which is pretty clear at least in my eye. Going for the socket bonus in an item with a blue isn't really an offensive stat trade off as long as you can utilize the +hit rating.

Perhaps if you showed me an alternative build with the same general gearing but different reforging/gemming I could see what you're saying a bit clearer.

#9 Feruswerre

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Posted 18 December 2010 - 02:02 PM

Gatesz said:

I feel like that build doesn't really need any more resilience

I think that this is the part we disagree on, leading to our opposing views on gem choices. ;)

Looking at the options again, I do think that 1 hybrid hit gem might be necessary if you're a jewelcrafter.

#10 ZchkallePer

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 07:36 AM

Any idea how to follow "more blue than red gems" meta? I'm trying to follow set bonuses and using Orange gems in yellow slots, still counts as fucking red ones.


I've tried quite afew options and since I'm blacksmith aswell this is getting pretty stupid with +sockets.


Havent lvl'd my JC up yet so I'm using even more blue gems because of it.


Any advice would be appritciated, trying to use str+haste without breaking meta

shoutlikey said:

Instead of PW:B :

Power Word: Paladin                 
18% of base mana
1.5 sec cast                 5 min Cooldown

You turn into a Male Bloodelf Paladin, increasing healing done by 300% and reducing mana costs by 80%. In addition, your smite turns into exorcism. Your Penance not only heals 500 % more, but also does not consume any mana, but holy power. It doesnt require any action to gain Holy Power.
Lasts 1 min.

#11 Ragrek

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 01:33 AM

ZchkallePer said:

Any idea how to follow "more blue than red gems" meta? I'm trying to follow set bonuses and using Orange gems in yellow slots, still counts as fucking red ones.

Try the Destructive Shadowspirit Diamond instead? Will almost certainly be a damage increase over gemming as many blues as required and in addition you get the spell reflect component of the meta.

What I'm thinking of running with zero-raiding; http://chardev.org/?profile=2661
Might pick up the Darkmoon Card: Hurricane trinket, but the deck is going for 54k at the moment on the AH.
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#12 Nitestrike

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:17 AM

I'm using a bunch of yellows for frost, and only 2 red, 2 blues, and 1 green. Not sure if it's ideal, but since frost actually gets crits, the bonus crit damage is useful.

#13 Gatesz

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 01:15 PM

Sorry I haven't added more trinkets yet, I'll probably get around to it in the next few days (on vacation, most activities front loaded so haven't had much laptop time)

#14 Ashe

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 12:12 PM

Fleet Shadowspirit Diamond is the choice for Frost imo, at least until Chaotic is fixed.
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#15 Smir

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 01:05 PM

i'm using Enigmatic Shadowspirit Diamond atm

#16 dkcarries

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:14 AM

how do you get spell penetration cap without jc?
i've got 70 cloak+3x50, but that's too much
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#17 GLopez

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 12:44 AM

It's not really too much. Mage Armor is like 235 resist.

#18 Kzrs

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 04:18 PM

Now that time has gone by, is DW still the best choice for Frost or is it 2h? Cause there is no 2.6 OH and you would have to spend 4900 points instead of 3450... which I think is downright ridiculous. They didn't think out the gearing did they? The fist weapons have one for 950...

#19 Thassel

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 12:54 AM

Question: Engineering goggles (haste + hit gems) or the pvp hat? Other stats versus resilience.

#20 Gatesz

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 01:39 AM

PvP because you really want as much resil as possible. Especially when you get the epic pvp helm, since then it won't be much offensive stat loss anyways.




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