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Warlock Spell Pen/Hit for S9


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#1 Jaggy

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:37 PM

If any of this is inaccurate let me know, none of the data I found on WoWhead/MMODB seems reliable...

Resistance effects and values @ 85:
Mage Armor: 45 (confirm?)
Mark of the Wild (Druid): 136
Blessing of Kings (Paladin): 136
Elemental Resist Totem (does not affect shadow) (Shaman): 195
Shadow Protection (Priest): 195
Resistance Aura (Paladin): 195

There are also racial (Undead, Draenei, Worgen etc.) effects that now give +85 Shadow Resist @level 85 instead of -% chance to be hit. Apparently these don't stack with the resist buffs anymore; for example, an Undead with Shadow Protection will still only have 195 Shadow Resist instead of 280. So extra pen/hit won't be necessary for these anymore.

Spell hit: 4%, racial penalties are gone and so is the +hit talent we used to have in 3.0, so with 102.5 hit rating for 1% spell hit at 85 (that's the value I found at EJ), you should be aiming for 410 hit rating unless all your friends are Draenei.

Curse of elements reduces resistances by 183 at 85, so you can basically rely on keeping that up for the majority of Spell Penetration needs, but with the buggy way Jinx works and the value of the utility curses (CoEx/CoW/CoT) I think I will prefer gemming the Spell Pen on my gear for the time being. If you'd prefer to rely on CoE alone, read no further. Also, I think the Mage Armor bonus is now minor enough that the main goal should just be 195.

There's 2 PvP gear slots that give Pen as an off-set stat, Neck and Back:
Neck:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=64808 178 SPen (Bloodthirsty)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=60661 201 SPen (Vicious)
Back:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=64732 178 SPen (Bloodthirsty)
http://www.wowhead.com/item=60786 201 SPen (Vicious)

The Neck slot's alternative stat is Haste (119 rating on Bloodthirsty, 134 on Vicious).
The Cloak slot's alternative stat is Mastery (119 rating on Bloodthirsty, 134 on Vicious).

Spell Pen Gems:
Stormy Chimera's Eye +84 Spell Pen
Stormy Ocean Sapphire +50 Spell Pen
I'm assume there will be Mysterious/Shattered gems to get +25SPen/+20 Int or Haste that just haven't been datamined yet.
As far as I can tell there are no hybrid Spell Pen gems in Cataclysm, just pure blue colored ones.
Update:
In 4.0.6 there will be 20 Pen/20 Resil hybrid gems (http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=68741), hopefully it will be 25 Pen when released since that's probably a bug.

Spell Pen Enchants:
+70 SPen to cloak (http://db.mmo-champi...spell-piercing/)
this is an alternative to +50 Int to cloak (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=74240)
The Spell Pen cloak enchant value seems to be inflated as always, since it has 40% more (70/50 = 1.4) than the Intellect cloak enchant despite it only being 25% cheaper (50/40 = 1.25) on gems budget.

Spell Hit (Bloodthirsty):
119 Hit from Ring
138 Hit from Gloves
138 Hit from Belt (Alternative option: 138 Crit)
119 Hit from Wrists (Alternative option: 119 Mastery)

I'd value Crit as still fairly low for Affliction, so I'd say the best setup would probably be the Hit Belt, which would put you at 138+138+119 = 395 Hit Rating, only 15 Rating short of the 410 cap. The remainder can be obtained with a 20 Haste/Int +20 Hit gem, which also fills a blue socket.

Spell Hit (Vicious):
These alternatives may or may not exist, datamining is weird for Vicious, so I'll refrain from saying anything until it's all live:
134 Hit from Ring
159 Hit from Gloves
159 Hit from Belt (Alternative option: 159 Crit, Mastery, Haste)
134 Hit from Wrists (Alternative option: 134 Mastery, Crit)

134 Hit from Neck (Alternative options: 134 Haste, 201 Spell Pen)
159 Hit from Boots (Alternative options: 159 Haste, Crit, Mastery)


Gemming options:
Keep in mind that using full PvP gear gives you, by my count, 3 Red, 3 Yellow, 3 Blue, 1 Meta, 1 Prismatic sockets (http://www.wowhead.c...=80;crs=7;crv=0). The Blue ones can be matched with either Hit, SPen, or Stam, and it's very likely you'll want to match most sockets on the S9 gear because the bonuses are very good.

Option 1: +50 Int Cloak Enchant, Bloodthirsty Neck/Cloak SPen offset items + 25Pen/20x gem (Puts you at 203, 8 over cap) or Vicious Neck/Cloak.

Option 2: +70 SPen Cloak Enchant, +84 Prismatic gem, +50 Spen gem puts you at 204, 9 over cap.

Option 3: +70 Spen Cloak Enchant, 2 +50 Spen Gems, 1 +25Spen/20 resil (Vivid Dream Emerald) gem puts you at exactly 195.

Summary (i.e. what I think I'm going to do): I'll probably be wearing more or less full PvP gear for the early part of the season, going with the Haste Neck, Mastery Cloak, Hit Belt and Mastery Wrists. I'll be using the Spen Cloak Enchant option to take advantage of the inflated budget, and then filling my 3 blue Sockets with 1 +84 Pen gem (the Prismatic Spell Pen gem is very slightly inflated budget-wise as well, 84 instead of 83.75, bigtime gain there...), 1 +50 Pen gem, and 1 20Haste/20 Hit gem, to maximize getting useful (i.e. non-Stamina) value out of the blue sockets.

Update: The lack of 25Pen/20x hybrid gems definitely changes the optimal gearing solutions.  I think the best solution now is to just get the Vicious Spell Pen cloak with +50 Int enchant for all spell pen.  Then use either Veiled Demonseye (http://www.wowhead.com/item=52217) or Lightning Dream Emerald (http://www.wowhead.com/item=52225) for your 3 blue sockets, and reforge out of hit as some have suggested to get back to 4% hit.  You'd probably reforge either Ring or Wrists if in full Bloodthirsty, and either Belt or Gloves if in full Vicious.

#2 Canadianpimp

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:40 PM

Awesome, sticky ASAP! I'll be going with Option 3 for the spell pen unless I need to gem hit.

#3 chaimer

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:43 PM

did this include the spell pen cape? im pretty sure that caps you without having to gem a single thing? sorry my attention span is meh for long theorycrafting posts.

#4 JaK91

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:46 PM

are you sure that 4%hit will be enough?

#5 Jaggy

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:46 PM

chaimer said:

did this include the spell pen cape? im pretty sure that caps you without having to gem a single thing? sorry my attention span is meh for long theorycrafting posts.

Yeah I did, but I think that's not really a good option, since it leaves with you with 2-3 blue sockets and nothing to do with them besides stam gems (or lose socket bonuses, which I don't think is advisable with the S9 gear).

JaK91 said:

are you sure that 4%hit will be enough?
I'm not sure, but reading the data on EJ so far makes it seem like no mechanics have changed from WotLK besides the Racial hit penalties.

#6 Canadianpimp

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:48 PM

JaK91 said:

are you sure that 4%hit will be enough?

It will be, they took out the talents that rogues/rets had and the miss racials.


Jaggy said:

Yeah I did, but I think that's not really a good option, since it leaves with you with 2-3 blue sockets and nothing to do with them besides stam gems (or lose socket bonuses, which I don't think is advisable with the S9 gear).


I'm not sure, but reading the data on EJ so far makes it seem like no mechanics have changed from WotLK besides the Racial hit penalties.

What about gemming for hit in those blue sockets and only using one hit piece?

#7 chaimer

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:50 PM

Jaggy said:

Yeah I did, but I think that's not really a good option, since it leaves with you with 2-3 blue sockets and nothing to do with them besides stam gems (or lose socket bonuses, which I don't think is advisable with the S9 gear).

there are some new green gems and such that give 2 secondary stats.  like mastery/hit.  then you can reforge your hit rating down for w/e you want. simple.

#8 Telelol

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Posted 02 December 2010 - 11:55 PM

+ rep

#9 Coldfame

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:01 AM

Great post, sticky?

#10 Bodhisage

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:02 AM

great stuff tyvm for posting!

#11 Jaggy

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 12:07 AM

Canadianpimp said:

What about gemming for hit in those blue sockets and only using one hit piece?

You could gem 120 hit in the 3 blue sockets, which would let you remove one hit piece, sure.  But there is no PvP alternative for the Ring (they only give 2 rings) or Gloves, so you'd have to sub out the hit Belt in favor of the Crit one, which is a tradeoff I don't really like.

chaimer said:

there are some new green gems and such that give 2 secondary stats.  like mastery/hit.  then you can reforge your hit rating down for w/e you want. simple.

I suppose that could work, but I don't really see the benefit in your gear being tied into specific Reforge ratios.  Plus, you get a little more item budget by using a Spell Pen cloak enchant instead of the Intellect one, unless there's a new enchant I've missed, and you can't take advantage of that with the SPen Cloak/Neck pieces.

Telelol said:

+ rep

Edit: the blue sockets on beta gives hit. Is that going live?
Yep, hit is blue now.

#12 Lauviah

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Posted 03 December 2010 - 10:11 AM

spell pen cape is well enough, more importantly resistance doesn't make your spells to miss anymore, it just reduces damage.

#13 Jaggy

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:57 AM

Lauviah said:

spell pen cape is well enough, more importantly resistance doesn't make your spells to miss anymore, it just reduces damage.

That's just what the tooltip says, but it only works that way for non-binary spells (i.e. Corruption, BoA).  Binary spells (Fear, Spell Lock, CoT, etc) still can get resisted fully.  I just tested this out using various combinations of 0-180 spell pen and 0-260 Shadow Resist with my super bff Hocus (pally aura + AM, combat log is here http://img27.imagesh...adowresist.png/ ).  Tried it with a mage too, Frostbolts can also be fully resisted (because they apply a snare debuff) but Arcane Blasts weren't.

On the other hand, we have autodevour and trash buffs are almost gone, so Shadow Prot/MotW/Kings won't be on anyone for long, and no one will actually use the Pally Resist Aura...so I'm not sure how useful any Spell Pen will be now.  I'm kind of split atm.

#14 jjfortherear

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 05:57 AM

Jaggy said:

Shadow Prot/MotW/Kings/MAGE ARMOR won't be on anyone for long, and no one will actually use the Pally Resist Aura...so I'm not sure how useful any Spell Pen will be now.  I'm kind of split atm.

/wrist

wtb 200 pen wand

edit: o wait, not as much, gg to read op before posting

#15 Ahri

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 01:59 AM

yo sticky this! timely info!

#16 Malvagita

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:46 AM

Thanks for this! +rep
:warrior:  :warlock:  :druid:


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#17 Jaggy

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Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:56 PM

I did a few BGs this weekend and the amount of resists I got was driving me crazy, since DoTs are still binary in application and therefore the debuff can be fully resisted.  Even worse, it looks like Soul Swap effectively casts each dot individually on the new target, meaning each dot can be individually resisted (i.e. swap UA/Corr/CoA onto a new target but UA gets resisted; now soul swap is on cooldown and you've effectively used 2 globals on soul swap to just put up Corr/CoA).

#18 Blowi

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 01:13 PM

Keep up the good job ;)

#19 Schmeiser

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 03:55 PM

So wait if we only need 195 spen i just buy the neck and im good for? I read the whole shit but i could be stupid so wanna know

#20 Nucleo

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 04:05 PM

wouldn't it be better to just get cloak (spell pen), which will take care of your spell pen, (gem a few to get the cap for bloodthirsty)
get haste neck (since u want to get as much haste as you can)
get all the hit from ring,gloves and gem for hit to get hit cap

that way you only sacrifice crit and or mastery for hit/spell pen and get the maximum haste you can

at least that's what i see as a best option for the end game, once you get all your vicious gear

but like you have mentioned i might get 70 spell pen cloak enchant once the server goes up and see that 50 int cloak enchant is way too expensive, or just not have cloak enchant at all lol




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