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#41 Cyrus

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:20 PM

Shunyata said:

You're using RI to cover your aoe snaring against a priest or paladin.

Chilblains is removed on disease dispel, so if a holy paladin is dispelling frost fever on your target to remove the snare, you get 20 more runic power and double the damage to reapply that snare by using HB again.

I'm already global capped as frost so the free runes wouldnt be that big of a deal unless youre being kited.

I just cant see it being useful, if you need to peel someone vs a pally/priest or theyre spam dispelling and W-keying away but you want to catch them just use chains

1 min strang with the potential for 7 second duration is borderline unfair if youve ever played with a competent warrior post patch, we took down a max geared bauble gladiator holy paladin in about 12 seconds of uptime including the time he was in bubble, pre resil nerf, and with a 10% bonus to his healing since it wasnt in actual arena (nagrand)

Itll be more absurd with collosus smash being implemented, the shit warriors + dks do to people post patch is basically unfair, the only thing gayer atm would be warrior + feral but thats because feral is COMPLETELY overpowered atm, I have faith in blizzard that that shit wont last but you never know

Theres literally no time or reason for people to be dispelling vs TSG, we have chains as a backup snare if it gets out of hand, even playing with a warlock I see frost being dominant for shadowcleave since it can actually cleave and not the 500 dps bullshit they call our amazing unholy diseases, comes with an off DR CC that basically forces a trinket, and UA covers our chillblains snare vs the almighty paladin (unless they use cleanse, but even then they apparenrtly just want to oom themselves faster which will most likely be the entire purpose of scleave in s9)

I think people are underestimating strang as well, pre patch only druids got royally fucked by it in terms of duration thanks to talents, but with shit like hunters turretting the entire team with readiness silence shots, base talent reductions etc, strang was only really a 2-4 second silence + interrupt most of the time. Sharing a 1 minute CD with HC can lead to a solo ~20 second interrupt + blanket lockout on a healer every 2 minutes. The only one thats tricky is shaman since you cant chains/deathcoil groundings down as easily, but honestly I might just mindfreeze my target + focus strang into grip HC and get a trinket or a kill 100% of the time, god forbid you chain it with a fear chain or cyclone chain, bash, deathcoil etc etc.
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#42 Epicfriggindemic

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 07:38 PM

Cyrus said:

The only one thats tricky is shaman since you cant chains/deathcoil groundings down as easily, but honestly I might just mindfreeze my target + focus strang into grip HC and get a trinket or a kill 100% of the time, god forbid you chain it with a fear chain or cyclone chain, bash, deathcoil etc etc.

Isn't DG finally a physical effect now so it can't be grounded anymore? And I agree with ya, having HC and strang both on 1 min CD is insane. I'm going to be playing shadowcleave, just imagine the amount of CC we can pull off on a healer omagawd. Instant AoE fear + HC + strang + felhunter interrupt + cyclone wtfff you can't even stop this chain from happening since they're mostly instant.

#43 Shunyata

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:11 PM

Cyrus said:

I'm already global capped as frost so the free runes wouldnt be that big of a deal unless youre being kited.

I just cant see it being useful, if you need to peel someone vs a pally/priest or theyre spam dispelling and W-keying away but you want to catch them just use chains
.

Exactly. I'm thinking about it specifically as a means to remove dispel kiting as a potential weakness for frost.

Probably more important for 2v2 than 3v3 but we'll see how it plays out.




And yes, grounding totem does nothing to death grip anymore.
Because he's the hero Azeroth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll bash him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a utility class, a chains spammer. A death knight.

   -Lawdy

#44 GLopez

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:40 PM

I was really skeptical about Frost because Mione left me under the impression that Howling Blast scales like shit at level 85. But after seeing the video and looking up Howling Blast's coefficient (0.4 x AP, which is better than Death Coil's 0.3 x AP), I'm pretty sure the spec will be just fine.

And yeah, I think Hand of Doom will probably be better in 3V3 and BGs. You have teammates to do snaring in those situations.

Also, remember that a one-minute cooldown also shares a cooldown with Dark Simulacrum, which will be capable of some CC as well.

#45 Cyrus

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 08:45 PM

Yeah mionee had me thinking frost would be horrible and forced to spam oblit instead of hb due to weapon scaling vs ap scaling, but watching his vid makes me think hes on crack tbh, also i changed my mind, you guys should all spec RI so healers think dispelling diseases is counterproductive while I abuse hand of doom ehehe
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#46 Shunyata

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:07 PM

Cyrus said:

Yeah mionee had me thinking frost would be horrible and forced to spam oblit instead of hb due to weapon scaling vs ap scaling, but watching his vid makes me think hes on crack tbh, also i changed my mind, you guys should all spec RI so healers think dispelling diseases is counterproductive while I abuse hand of doom ehehe

LOL nice. This will probably work especially well in s10 when paladins and priests are just afraid to dispel frost fever.


Also attack power scaling is not far beyond weapon scaling.


Weapons, 325 dps to ~650 dps. About double.

Full s8 gear as unholy or as frost with bladed armor, ~6k-6300 attack power.

Several people are reporting that, not even in full epic pvp gear with prof's and chants they have 10k - 11k AP. 12k AP will probably be close to what we have in full epic pvp gear after gemming / enchanting / proffessions.

In the end, about double.

Frost is actually going to be having stronger ranged damage and more armor ignoring damage than unholy by a good margin.


Also sorry to ruin everyone's engineering dreams but rated bgs are anounced today to have the same rules on consumables and engi items as arena.
Because he's the hero Azeroth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll bash him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a utility class, a chains spammer. A death knight.

   -Lawdy

#47 GLopez

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:10 PM

Yeah. Oh well, at least parachute cloak won't be bad.

#48 Epicfriggindemic

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:16 PM

Shunyata said:

LOL nice. This will probably work especially well in s10 when paladins and priests are just afraid to dispel frost fever.


Also attack power scaling is not far beyond weapon scaling.


Weapons, 325 dps to ~650 dps. About double.

Full s8 gear as unholy or as frost with bladed armor, ~6k-6300 attack power.

Several people are reporting that, not even in full epic pvp gear with prof's and chants they have 10k - 11k AP. 12k AP will probably be close to what we have in full epic pvp gear after gemming / enchanting / proffessions.

In the end, about double.

Sadly, the base dmg which is around 1100 for HB, didn't double :( the new value is around 1250 or so.
Regardless, HB is still a beast of a spell. Did you see how much dmg the lock's pet took at the end of Mione's second vid? It was all HB's aoe. Now imagine doing the same thing to a ghoul :)

#49 Shunyata

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:28 PM

Epicfriggindemic said:

Sadly, the base dmg which is around 1100 for HB, didn't double :( the new value is around 1250 or so.
Regardless, HB is still a beast of a spell. Did you see how much dmg the lock's pet took at the end of Mione's second vid? It was all HB's aoe. Now imagine doing the same thing to a ghoul :)

It's fine for it to do a bit less damage from a relative perspective at 85. It feels overpowered at 80.

As you said though, still a beast, and much more effective than dots for cleave killing a pet. And even if the pet get's heals, that will add up to alot of mana pressure from the multi target damage.


Has anyone else noticed HB doesn't even require facing on live? You can hit it with your back turned. Not sure how Strangulate requires facing and HB doesnt but whatever.
Because he's the hero Azeroth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll bash him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a utility class, a chains spammer. A death knight.

   -Lawdy

#50 Darthgnoe

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:29 PM

where can I find the vid mionee made?

#51 GLopez

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:31 PM





#52 Cyrus

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 09:46 PM

I was talking about breaking the grounding with mind freeze so I could interrupt a cast with focus strang not gripping them :O

Based on current numbers and playstyle Frost is hands down the spec of cata, with MS being nerfed we'll probably see DKs emerge in the 5v5 brackets aswell. I'm thinking RSham DK Lock Pally Warrior S9 dreamteam 5v5
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#53 Epicfriggindemic

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:04 PM

Cyrus said:

I was talking about breaking the grounding with mind freeze so I could interrupt a cast with focus strang not gripping them :O

Based on current numbers and playstyle Frost is hands down the spec of cata, with MS being nerfed we'll probably see DKs emerge in the 5v5 brackets aswell. I'm thinking RSham DK Lock Pally Warrior S9 dreamteam 5v5

Do you guys also see how they are making it so that your rated bg point gain is based off of the highest arena/bg rating from last week? Meaning you could get your 5v5 pretty high up there and just play rated bgs for the week and collect points. Pretty awesome and really encourages rated bgs if you ask me.

My dream 5v5 is probly Shadowcleave + mage + pally.

#54 GLopez

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:05 PM

I use rocket gloves for Grounding. :)

#55 Shunyata

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:15 PM

Epicfriggindemic said:

Do you guys also see how they are making it so that your rated bg point gain is based off of the highest arena/bg rating from last week? Meaning you could get your 5v5 pretty high up there and just play rated bgs for the week and collect points. Pretty awesome and really encourages rated bgs if you ask me.

My dream 5v5 is probly Shadowcleave + mage + pally.

Yeah I caught that.


The only bad thing about that implementation is that you'll always get crap for points on the first week of a season. No matter how much we play in week 1, we still have our pts capped as if we were sub 1500. Then on week 2 if you farmed an arena team up high you can start earning decent points.

I'm really looking forward to the whole rated bg system, blackrock horde and Hawk Gaming in particular look like they'll really shine in that bracket.

Still think arena will be faster to gear up in especially at the start.

I'm thinking frost dk holy paly for 2v2 at the moment, and tsg for 3s.
Because he's the hero Azeroth deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll bash him because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a utility class, a chains spammer. A death knight.

   -Lawdy

#56 Cyrus

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:17 PM

GLopez12 said:

I use rocket gloves for Grounding. :)

Ehh binding Hyperspeed to PoF leads to stupid damage, if its a 1v1 ill either break it with DC PS or Mind Freeze, best part about it is when shammys think you MFed grounding on accident you can throw a 7 sec strang in their face and chain it with a HC interrupt so they cant cast while your MF is down anyways
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#57 bloodcraze

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 10:20 PM

GLopez12 said:


By the way, I'm probably not playing TSG in Cataclysm, and I prefer Unholy, so you don't have to worry about my feelings. :)

WTF THIS IS NEWS TO ME :(
TSG? lol. Train a target, grip their healer in, pop gargoyle, bladestorm, spread DK aids on 2/3 targets and win- *Korlicbus*
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#58 Gatesz

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:37 PM

Oh great he's not banned anymore, didn't you have an agreement with Biotoxz anyway that if he got R1 you delete your AJ account, and if you got R1 he deletes his?

#59 Cyrus

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:42 PM

Gatesz said:

Oh great he's not banned anymore, didn't you have an agreement with Biotoxz anyway that if he got R1 you delete your AJ account, and if you got R1 he deletes his?

Our deal only applied to DKs, dont honestly care that he played a shaman to R1 in 5's but gratz to him I guess.
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#60 Mightlol

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Posted 05 November 2010 - 11:46 PM

Both will work, since a warrior doesn't need anymore to use his Bladestorm skill to score a kill, it does less damage than warriors normal damage - i mean, outside of BS.

PS: I still wonder what spec dk'll take to play PHD, tho.




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