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Point Selling Soon to be Extinct


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#41 Final

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:46 PM

[quote name='Guntt']fighting point sellers as a legitimate 1600-1700 team would be like every 4th pull of your heroic mech being Illidan instead of a stupid robot.

it's not fair to them.  to whoever said "its because they refuse to buy points" well you shouldnt have to buy points to compete with people who are going to stomp on your head anyways.

points from PR: majority of the problem solved[/QUOTE]

Well clearly your analogy proves that PVP is harder.  Duh.

I'm providing the WoW community with an awesome service!  If you can't beat them join them, I've seen low ranked teams buy 2 charters and win trade them selling the points every week to get it back.  It can be done by everyone.

Windwalk said:

LOL

sig anyone?

#42 Akkin

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 10:54 PM

While I see it as a good thing that there will hopefully be taken actions against point and team selling I worry about what that will mean for people who just want to switch team from time to time.
For example I have 2 70 chars (shaman and warlock) and I enjoy playing 2v2 with both of them. Also the person I enjoy playing with the most is my brother - who only got one char. So we play together as "lock and disc priest" in one team and as "enhancement shaman and shadow priest" in a second team (mainly because we wouldn't be able to compete at the same ratings with both combinations).
That means he switches team weekly - which could very likely be something that will be prevented by actions directed against point sellers.

If I can not continue playing like this I am going to have a real grudge against those point sellers who obviously asked for it.
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#43 Dayoni

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 11:04 PM

I don't really care about 7 games a week point sellers or the ppl playing with others for personal rating. In both cases, games actually get played. What really bugs me is that when I do have the time to arena, half of the games are empty because of win traders.

When I beat up on an alt team, I get some easy points. When I play vs some glad rerolls, at least I get an interesting match. When I wait 2 minutes for a queue and then another 2 in the buff area for opponents who never show, I lose 4 min of my life with nothing to show for it. I might quit queueing completely because I get faster gratification by pugging a BG.

Think of when you first started doing arenas. You didn't do it because you wanted to make tons of gold a year later. You kept going because you liked playing. The win trading scheme takes participation out of arenas completely. That's only going to hurt the pvp community in the long run. Think of the give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish proverb.

*Edit: "My point selling teams are higher than your point selling teams" epeen contests are not impressive.

#44 Bio

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 11:04 PM

You cant ever fix point selling, b/c you would have to take away people FREE WILL to choose a partner/team?

I honestly think they are just saying what they are saying to get all the 11 year old noobs who wont stop making forum posts and crying irl b/c they get owned by good teams and cant get past 1850.
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#45 Ocius

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 11:35 PM

Most point selling teams are over 2k, anyway. The ones I've sold points on are 2100+, with a few 2s being 2200-2300+. We're doing that with the 3 games/7 games selling; not win trading. And at those ratings we're not taking points from "random noobs" by any means. In fact, I'm sure the people who get our buyers are quite thankful for the free rating.


And the reason I have more than 1 team at those ratings is because I've played with multiple people. My Warlock and I have leveled 2 teams: only one with the intention of point selling. We ended up selling on both teams. Leveled 1 team with my Warrior partner for legitimate ladder play, then decided to leech alts off it when we hit 2300. Then we have two 3v3 teams: One we leveled as Lock/Druid/Warr and one was leveled to 2k to get a buyer 2k personal (the legit way; went 35-1). We then dropped our lock/druid/warr team (at 2360) to leech alts/sell and picked up the 2nd team to try out a new partner, which is now at 2365.

I only plan on starting one more team this season for 2v2. And the only reason is to get rid of my current team with it's ridiculous amount of losses due to point selling on it all season :P.

#46 Grunz

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 01:47 PM

You guys are making this way too complicated. Clearly the solution to this problem is to remove gold from WoW.

#47 Fwibblekill

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:10 PM

I can't believe all the selfish posts here. Blizzard really doesn't care if you will have to grind mobs or do daily quests for money or not. The point is, selling points was never an intended way to make  money. If Blizzard wanted people to sell teams/points, they would make a system to enable you to do so. Right now both win trading and point selling are ways to get people to a rating they wouldn't be able reach with just fair play. People having a rating they shouldn't have, for whatever reason, is abusing the system, and if Blizzard can do anything to stop people from abusing the arena system they should, and they will. If it is a good way for you to make money or not really doesn't make any difference.

Also, like multiple people already said, people seem to ignore the fact that teams under 2k rating lose points from facing teams that should be at much higher ratings. Sure they can get their rating back when they are lucky and don't face any 2.1k rated teams while at 1700 rating, but you are still wasting peoples time just so you can get some gold.

If you need money, go do daily quests like the rest and stop being selfish.

#48 Seventhsyn

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:18 PM

Until gold is completely devalued OR they completely monitor 100% of every gold transaction by every player this stuff will never stop.

If gold meant nothing in this game do you think wed sell points to randoms?  Hell no.... Then youd also see a lot more structured arena ladder where higher players typically are sticking to the top ratings.

Pretty much everyone agree's win trading and q dodging needs eliminated.

Then you can divide everyone else in this posts opinions right down the middle based on which end of the point selling they are on.

#49 Grunz

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:26 PM

Fwibblekill said:

Also, like multiple people already said, people seem to ignore the fact that teams under 2k rating lose points from facing teams that should be at much higher ratings. Sure they can get their rating back when they are lucky and don't face any 2.1k rated teams while at 1700 rating, but you are still wasting peoples time just so you can get some gold.

WoW has never been about being fair. Is it fair when a Sunwell guild grabs a priest from a guild that's just about to clear BT, which causes them to waste a week or two searching for a replacement? Is it fair that Prince will be the most important boss kill for most people in this game? Is it fair that some people have 8 hours a day to play this game while some only get to spend an hour or two? Is it fair that someone on a dead server had to spend forever waiting around for AQ to open up?

It's not a God-given right to participate in arenas, nor does the ToS stipulate that arenas will be a bastion of equality and balance and morality. The arena is what it is, and you're either good/lucky enough to play your way to the top, or you can pay those that are to help you get there. Just like in pve, if you want to get your hands on Sunwell gear, you do so by either being good enough to be in a Sunwell guild, or you pay a Sunwell guild to craft stuff for you or drag you through the instance.

#50 Fwibblekill

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:35 PM

Grunz said:

WoW has never been about being fair. Is it fair when a Sunwell guild grabs a priest from a guild that's just about to clear BT, which causes them to waste a week or two searching for a replacement? Is it fair that Prince will be the most important boss kill for most people in this game? Is it fair that some people have 8 hours a day to play this game while some only get to spend an hour or two? Is it fair that someone on a dead server had to spend forever waiting around for AQ to open up?

It's not a God-given right to participate in arenas, nor does the ToS stipulate that arenas will be a bastion of equality and balance and morality. The arena is what it is, and you're either good/lucky enough to play your way to the top, or you can pay those that are to help you get there. Just like in pve, if you want to get your hands on Sunwell gear, you do so by either being good enough to be in a Sunwell guild, or you pay a Sunwell guild to craft stuff for you or drag you through the instance.
Your missing the point. It's not about people getting the gear, I would be happy if everyone had equal gear. It's about team sellers wasting other peoples time just for personal gain. Of course you don't have the right to face 100% equal teams every time, but does that take away that you are wasting the time of a real person just so you can get gold in a video game? No.

Sure, your wasting peoples time if you leave a guild as well, but choosing to change guild isn't anything like steamrolling weaker teams to get gold.

BTW I'm not saying I'm always right my self. People have asked me to boost their rating for money and I've seriously considered doing it, as long as there is a way to get easy money while having fun doing it I perfectly understand people doing it. I don't think everyone selling points is a total dick. However if Blizzard can do anything to prevent/reduce this I''m all for it, and I think it's stupid argueing against that.

#51 Herrera

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:36 PM

tristantio said:

This would also mean that if the 5 good players farmed a team up to 2100 rating and then all left to start raising their 2nd team, they would lose 750 rating, setting them back down to a 1450 team rating.

Arena is 90% brainz and 20% gear!

#52 Grunz

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:45 PM

Fwibblekill said:

It's about team sellers wasting other peoples time just for personal gain.

It's not like the other team was queueing because soemone had a gun to their head. If someone's time is being "wasted", it isn't the point seller doing the wasting. If you don't like the fact that the best people reap fabulous wealth by walking all over other players, then stop doing arenas or find another game to play. People are trying to turn the arena in to some kind of social utopia, when in reality it's just another way to kill time on a video game.

#53 Seventhsyn

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:47 PM

So to go ahead and summarize the last 5 pages for those who dont want to read it all...

- If you cant get 1850 its because 90% of the matches you do are against triple glad 2800 skillers rerolling teams all day.

- Anyone who carries any rating above 2k plays wow 19 hours a day and has no life.

- If you farm gold using any other method than doing dailies you are a cheater.

- Illidan sometimes takes the place of Kael in the sunwell 5 man.

- Trist failed math

- Sometimes people lose in arena due to something other than gear.

- If said arena game listed above is in fact lost, it was a complete waste of your time.

That should cover it.

#54 Fwibblekill

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 02:54 PM

Grunz said:

It's not like the other team was queueing because soemone had a gun to their head.
No, they are probably queueing to have fun in a game. Losing against people who are 10 times better than you and having no chance to win at all isn't what the majority of people consider to be fun.

The rest of your argument doesn't even make sense. In the same way you could say using hacks to instantly kill people would be perfectly fine, and if people don't like it they should just stop playing wow.

#55 Grunz

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:05 PM

Fwibblekill said:

No, they are probably queueing to have fun in a game.

WoW can't be fun for everyone all the time. By the very nature of arenas, one team wins and one team loses. Winning is fun, but losing sucks. So that means that 50% of the people in each match aren't having fun. Welcome to arenas. No matter how "fair" you make it, someone always loses.

#56 Seventhsyn

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:05 PM

Anyone who goes into arena looking for easy uncompetative games and then cries when they get steamrolled really doesnt make any sense.  Whether its by gladiators rerolling a team with friends, or just by an equally geared and skilled opponent.

Its hard to accept that sometimes your just NOT as good as other people at something.  I personally cant break into the 2300+ upper tier bracket, theres just nothing I can do about it.  You face the same teams typically and most of them are just better than me, and my team.  I take what i can from it, but I get over it pretty quickly when I realize the sole reason I logged on to WoW was to enjoy the experience.

Some people just need to accept that the arena is the way it is and if you dont like it dont play...  Everytime some top 10 RMP steamrolls my main's 3v3 I dont flip out.  I say, that guys 2300, hes better than me, thus i should not expect to be 2300.

#57 Fwibblekill

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:13 PM

Grunz said:

WoW can't be fun for everyone all the time. By the very nature of arenas, one team wins and one team loses. Winning is fun, but losing sucks. So that means that 50% of the people in each match aren't having fun. Welcome to arenas. No matter how "fair" you make it, someone always loses.
lol.

If you really have no fun every time you lose, then I feel sorry for you and then I wonder why you are still playing this game. This doesn't only count for arenas in wow but also for sports in real life or any game people play. I don't know if you realise it but some people can still have fun playing a game if they don't win. If not then a lot of sports/games and stuff like that wouldn't even exist. Do you really think people would for example spend an hour of their time playing a match of soccer when there's a 50% they will not enjoy it, at all? I don't think so.

I myself, and I know a lot of people who share my opinion, enjoy a game whenever there is competition and you have a chance to win and a chance to lose. However there is no fun in losing a game without having any chance to win at all, just like it's not a lot of fun if you win while there is no chance you can ever lose.

Of course there will always be teams who have an advantage over you but Blizzard is trying to keep these advantages low. It's called balance.
Are you saying you think its fine if some classes are simply your anti class and you have no chance to ever beat them, and Blizzard doesn't do anything about it? You would just have to be lucky to win an arena game without any skill involved. But of course that is fine, because you can still win 50% of your games.

#58 Axin

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:17 PM

Btw, the part where glad ppl reroll teams with alts/friends/buyers and level them up to 2k is bitter, but you just have to take it as there's nothing wrong with that. That's frustrating when you are on the wrong end of the fight, but you can't separate point buyers and some guy playing with his gf who just hit 70. The point selling with 7-3 matches is good if you can get the 3 matches at 2k+ :P

Win trading is retarded, I bitched against the queue penalty last season, didn't play since that for awhile, and I was quite happy with the change when I learned about it. I honestly didn't see that coming... That's too bad if they change it back, I really disliked loosing 30 points because I queued too early before a teammate leaved the last arena.

#59 reesj

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:21 PM

Wow some of the idiot posters here should really learn some English reading comprehension and how to summarise a thread. Also according to some, just cause you can , you should be able to use all the cheats and win. Because that makes you happy and it is thus fine. Also let the top rank team make all his friends gladiator while rest can be happy with their skills at  lesser ranks.

#60 Grunz

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Posted 17 April 2008 - 03:25 PM

Fwibblekill said:

If you really have no fun every time you lose, then I feel sorry for you and then I wonder why you are still playing this game.

If you knew that you were going to lose every time you played a game, would you still play? I sure as fuck wouldn't, because losing isn't fun. I remember reading an article on a collegiate wrestler who had like one loss in his whole career, and when asked about his competitive outlook, he said that it wasn't so much that he enjoyed winning as that he absolutely hated losing and would do whatever it took to avoid it. If you are a competitive person, then losing definitely takes the fun out anything.

If losing doesn't bother you, then you'll never have the drive to get better, and you will probably sit around a 1600 rating for the rest of your WoW career. There's nothing wrong with that.

If losing does bother you, you'll either learn how to stop losing, or you'll stop playing altogether. Or you'll come to the AJ forums and whine. There IS something wrong with that.




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