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[3v3] Dispel cleave troubles and guide questions


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#21 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:56 AM

The problem is that "dispelling" isn't that easy as you just put it to be.

Both the healers have to not only make sure they don't stand together, but also make it possible to reach eachother and the warrior at the same time.

if for example paladin gets Sfuryed behind a pillar where priest can't get him and the rng runs him out in the middle away from the pillar (think nagrand arena here) the paladin will most likely die at this point.

also the fact that the healers have to avoid 3 different CC's (clone/fear/hex) while keeping up with healing/dispelling makes it really difficult.

the hardest part, as said above is the fact that a simply sfury -> fear will kill/force bubble unless the fear pathing is with you the entire game, simply because reliably dispelling is damn difficult due to how the maps/pillars are placed and the fact that if you stand together, you'll eat a sfury --> howl -> clone*3 while your pally dies.

sure there's trinkets, cd's, etc, but eventually you'll run out of 'em - a destro LSD have the same amount of CC as an affli (we dispel through ua as well if we have to), however, thier burst is a lot scarrier.

as said above - your best bet is to rush one of 'em down really fast, if you fail at that and they survive the opener, have fun trying to beat 'em.


I wouldnt say that destro/ele was scarrier, because you can dispel immolate/flame shock. But again, we havent faced any destro ones, so I can't really tell :) I do see your point however.

And I dont think the rushing will work at higher ratings. :)
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#22 Tankz

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:07 AM

I wouldnt say that destro/ele was scarrier, because you can dispel immolate/flame shock. But again, we havent faced any destro ones, so I can't really tell :) I do see your point however.

And I dont think the rushing will work at higher ratings. :)


you won't outmana them and you can't keep up with the dispelling forever so i don't really see a lot of options left :(

best bet is to hope they're horrible (which 99% are) and zerg either of 'em down, or simply get enough pve gear to kill either of 'em through unhealable damage.
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#23 Hexagram

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:09 AM

T
Both the healers have to not only make sure they don't stand together, but also make it possible to reach eachother and the warrior at the same time.


The best way we found to handle this against spell cleaves was just putting the priest out in the open about 10-14 yards from the pillar. Pally sits at the pillar since he's the easiest to kill for a wizard cleave.

The priest ran 1350-1450 resil because of the amount of ATC/TSG we always played that would sit on him almost the entire game making him pretty damn unkillable to a spell cleave unless we screw up.

This positioning prevented double fears, shadowfury and the fear pathing was never an issue because it couldn't take him out of los.

Pally can los any CC preventing them from setting up any double cc on both healers.
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#24 Tankz

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:11 AM

The best way we found to handle this against spell cleaves was just putting the priest out in the open about 10-14 yards from the pillar. Pally sits at the pillar since he's the easiest to kill for a wizard cleave.

The priest ran 1350-1450 resil because of the amount of ATC/TSG we always played that would sit on him almost the entire game making it him pretty damn unkillable to a spell cleave unless we screw up.

This positioning prevented double fears, shadowfury and the fear pathing was never an issue because it couldn't take him out of los.

Pally can los any CC preventing them from setting up any double cc on both healers.



our priest was human and sometimes went 1300'ish resi, but still died in a coil 'cause a single spell lock/fear/stompclone would be enough.
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#25 Hexagram

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:25 AM

Your priest and paladin didn't notice that the LSD had changed targets? Didn't notice the shock/immolate up on the priest?
Didn't have trinket, divine sac, ps, ds, blessing of sac, PW:S/Sacred shield up on the priest?
We never ran into problems with our priest dying to lsd.

The rank 1 lsd on my bg isn't going to screw up with the druid being in a poor position with no hots up and we aren't going to win vs them. However, the teams this guy is asking advice against are probably horrible.

If you see the pet in a bad spot then get your priest to dispel the hots off it and kill it with an early bladestorm. If you get a second pet kill then the druid has no way out of hoj/fear. This strat doesn't work on maps with a z-axis.

Any time you can have your priest clean the druid with dispels followed by a hard swap by the warrior you can land a kill.

Both of these strats will work vs most bad LSDs and most of the ones you play will be bad.
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#26 ardnut

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:48 AM

Thanks to everyone for the help it is greatly appreciated and I will plus rep all of you that I can... probably can't do Tankz anymore as I've already done it with all the other times u've helped out.

Just our of curiosity... when the rank 1 Dispel cleave plays the rank 1 LSD... who would have the advantage?
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#27 Tankz

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 10:51 AM

Your priest and paladin didn't notice that the LSD had changed targets? Didn't notice the shock/immolate up on the priest?
Didn't have trinket, divine sac, ps, ds, blessing of sac, PW:S/Sacred shield up on the priest?
We never ran into problems with our priest dying to lsd.

The rank 1 lsd on my bg isn't going to screw up with the druid being in a poor position with no hots up and we aren't going to win vs them. However, the teams this guy is asking advice against are probably horrible.

If you see the pet in a bad spot then get your priest to dispel the hots off it and kill it with an early bladestorm. If you get a second pet kill then the druid has no way out of hoj/fear. This strat doesn't work on maps with a z-axis.

Any time you can have your priest clean the druid with dispels followed by a hard swap by the warrior you can land a kill.

Both of these strats will work vs most bad LSDs and most of the ones you play will be bad.


When your priest stands in the middle of nowhere, he's always a prime target combined with the warrior.

they simply need one clone/hex/good fear on the pally to force shitloads of CD's and you're pretty much done for.

you also forgot the factor that when you go offensive vs destro LSD, pure damage can easily be enough to heal and going offensive will most likely force you into bad positions, where a simple CC on the pally/priest will kill either of you.

to ardnut - the LSD would win.

edit - you forgot to mention the fact that you play with a DK, not a warrior - thus the tactics are completly different.
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#28 Amaranthea

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 11:18 AM

It's possible to beat LSD - you just aren't really allowed to make mistakes (in either positioning or cooldown use) or someone will get blown up.

We've played the rank 1 LSD on our BG only once and won in a 20 minute game on dalaran arena (http://www.wowarmory...997&b=Nightfall). If you look at damage taken you'll notice we trained the druid for most of the game. We generally do what Hexagram was suggesting except the priest is even more offensive to the point of running on top of them to kill tremor and get fears / burns off.
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#29 Hexagram

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 11:29 AM

I play on multiple paladins. My teamates keep wanting to sit for glad so I keep finding new teams.

wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kel%27Thuzad&cn=Freestate

Is the most recent dispel cleave I was playing on. I also ran one earlier in the season to 5th in the bg and played it on the TR.

Our warrior doesn't have the pve gear swayy does and we got some what close on the druid, but ended up failing to get a kill the one game we played them.
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#30 Nycto

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 12:11 PM

As lsd double healer isnt hard unless they get burns off, i think we lost to like one dispell cleave because we all played retarded.

It was actually easier as destro i found funnily enough, purely because of the retarded damage, fear on one healer lock on the other without major cd's they are screwed. Also what i can do to a paladin solo is pretty obsurd, with a few crits i can pretty much force a bubble if my trinket is procn.

We didnt kill the warrior so much but more the healers, their closest kills came when they would be able to burst someone down in a hoj, and when they would be able to land a fear on my pet. On rov they tended to spam burn our druid alot, which sorta worked but eventually they run outta cd's, I can't see you consistently beating lsd's without them consistently playing it wrong/making mistake after mistake.
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#31 ardnut

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 09:12 AM

Against mage teams are we supposed to cover freedom with trash buffs?

I've read we are supposed to counter mage teams, but having a hard time vs shadowshatter and an ele/mage/healer team.
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#32 Heartnet

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Posted 11 October 2010 - 09:39 AM

Against mage teams are we supposed to cover freedom with trash buffs?

I've read we are supposed to counter mage teams, but having a hard time vs shadowshatter and an ele/mage/healer team.


better to dispel/burn than cover freedom with trash buffs

ele mage/disc go on the mage most of the time with swaps onto priest when you're not under pressure; peel n go on the ele to stop dmg if you are

shadowshatter just swap between spriest n mage and mage sure your healers dont get double feared, ez win


oh and dispelcleave should beat destro LSD easily
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