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[3v3] Dispel cleave troubles and guide questions


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#1 ardnut

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:06 AM

Hi,
Started running dispel cleave at around 2.1k MMR. How relevant is the guide in the strategy section, as I have noticed it is over a year old now.

We mainly have trouble with RMP and LSD.

RMP seem to just gib any one of us in the opener unless we use 2 trinkets. I'm avoiding the mages poly/frost nova so I can interrupt the mage dps and disarm the rogue, then I end up in poly/nova with my team mates silenced/blinded/stunned and someone dies.

LSD, we have been close to a kill when I reflected a clone on the druid and then we got a stun on the druid, but they survived in the end. I feel like I'm risking death everytime I reflect a clone, because if I don't have reflect for the LVB + Chaos bolt and I can't interrupt one of them I'm screwed.

Any basic tactics that will work out at our level will be greatly appreciated.
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#2 Pacmanyo

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:20 AM

More PvE rotation on druid/warlock.
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#3 ardnut

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:22 AM

I don't PVE... it's for nerds. Well bigger nerds.
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#4 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:25 AM

against RMP, I'm guessing they are going for pally at first. Have him go to the pillar asap, while the warrior intervenes the priest while the priest hurries into combat. From there the pally can cast w/e on the priest to get in combat. From here, all you need to do is keep your warrior clean from slows and he will slowly kill the mage. Just time your cooldowns and you should be able to turtle it out. Also, priest being able to SW: D some polymorphs at critical moments (like pally is going to get full KS and you sit in nova) will be gamebreaking.

So basically to sum it up:
Intervene sap
Have priest get in combat fast
Time trinkets/cooldowns
Clean warrior at all time
SW: D polymorphs

LSD is basically a counter, especially if the lock is UA, since they are going to put out some extreme pressure. What you want to do is dispel roots on warrior at all times (freedom if he has UA up aswell), and having warrior switching between whatever isnt hotted up. Try to mana-burn the elemental shaman to slow down their pressure. We normally try to swap druid whenever HoJ is ready and either burn or DPS him (depends on arena, and % mana).

To sum it up
Burn ele shaman
dispel warriors roots at all time (freedom if UA is up)
Switches to druid with HoJ on every CD (if possible)
Hope they are retarded

Hope this helps :)
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#5 ardnut

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:31 AM

Thanks for the advise Saywat, I will try that out tonight.

P.S. do you know if the guide in the strategy section is still releveant after all this time?
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#6 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:34 AM

Thanks for the advise Saywat, I will try that out tonight.

P.S. do you know if the guide in the strategy section is still releveant after all this time?


I know that some of the last pages, strategies / gear setups etc have been discussed. I havent read through the whole "main" guide, so I can't say if its relevant or not. Feel free to PM me questions tho, or just post them here.
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#7 Pacmanyo

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:41 AM

I don't PVE... it's for nerds. Well bigger nerds.


I mean do more pve rotations in arena with your priest dispeling stuff off druid or warlock...

Best double healer teams in our BG always did this against us and you can't even immagine how good it is.. Ofcourse playing defensive is good, but doing constant pressure on one target is insane.. But then ofcourse if you have 0 pve gear I dont advice you to play double healer.
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#8 Pacmanyo

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:44 AM

Try to mana-burn the elemental shaman to slow down their pressure.


This gay tactic always lead the double healer to end up oom, cos our shaman was drinking or getting mana from revitalize and priest just got oom before shaman was half way out of mana. And I don't mean 2.2k teams, I mean 2.6k+. Best way is just do freakin pressure on druid or warlock.

LSD's opinion on how to beat LSD is bad, lolwut ?..
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#9 zxtyraelxz

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:46 AM

Lsd, have your priest chase the shaman for fear while keeping an eye on tremor. You can either rush down the druid with dispel spam or warlock. Spam dispel on whoever they on, and make your paladin proc sacred cleansing on everyone no matter what debuff they have. Against afflic LSd, well GL destro is doable.
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#10 Pacmanyo

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 07:47 AM

Lsd, have your priest chase the shaman for fear while keeping an eye on tremor. You can either rush down the druid with dispel spam or warlock. Spam dispel on whoever they on, and make your paladin proc sacred cleansing on everyone no matter what debuff they have. Against afflic LSd, well GL destro is doable.


We only lost to one double healer team in our BG, and we beat it 2 times after. BTW we play destro..
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#11 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:00 AM

cant see how destro LSD would get a kill on anything, ever, unless the double healer is retarded and stand there not dispelling for 20sec+. no UA = 100% uptime for warrior outside of clone DR.

I agree that rushing down the druid (or lock) with spam dispels can work in some cases but is unlikely if the LSD is any good and the lock/shaman knows how to peel. and YES I AM TALKING 2,7+ not fucking 2,2 here.

EDIT: we havent faced any destro LSDs yet, since UA is just so much better (if you know how to play, jk ele+destro burst gg wotlk)
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#12 Pacmanyo

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:03 AM

cant see how destro LSD would get a kill on anything, ever, unless the double healer is retarded and stand there not dispelling for 20sec+. no UA = 100% uptime for warrior outside of clone DR.

I agree that rushing down the druid (or lock) with spam dispels can work in some cases but is unlikely if the LSD is any good and the lock/shaman knows how to peel. and YES I AM TALKING 2,7+ not fucking 2,2 here.

EDIT: we havent faced any destro LSDs yet, since UA is just so much better (if you know how to play, jk ele+destro burst gg wotlk)


Well fact is that we play destro and we had not problems beating double healers. If they play gay, like burning shaman it's even easier.. If you're good it doesnt make any difference if it's destro or affliction imo.
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#13 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:05 AM

Well fact is that we play destro and we had not problems beating double healers. If they play gay, like burning shaman it's even easier.. If your good it doesnt make any difference if it's destro or affliction imo.


It does, especially against dispelcleave.

Also, how would the dispelcleave go oom? lock wont be able to drain mana, I fail to see how then? Priest wearing 1200 haste or some shit? i dno bout those priests, but i never oom unless the lock spams drain on me WITH UA UP.

Also, I dont see how it would be easier if they burn the shaman. You would lose alot of pressure cuz he needs to LoS / shock / ground the burns....

I dont know really, your point seems to be flawed. How would you ever get the kill? Care to explain?
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#14 Pacmanyo

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:18 AM

It does, especially against dispelcleave.

Also, how would the dispelcleave go oom? lock wont be able to drain mana, I fail to see how then? Priest wearing 1200 haste or some shit? i dno bout those priests, but i never oom unless the lock spams drain on me WITH UA UP.

Also, I dont see how it would be easier if they burn the shaman. You would lose alot of pressure cuz he needs to LoS / shock / ground the burns....

I dont know really, your point seems to be flawed. How would you ever get the kill? Care to explain?


I will ask my teams lock come and explain you how he soloed paladin against 2.6k double healer team.
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#15 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:21 AM

I will ask my teams lock come and explain you how he soloed paladin against 2.6k double healer team.


wow....


lol "viable strat" right there.
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#16 Tankz

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:42 AM

It does, especially against dispelcleave.

Also, how would the dispelcleave go oom? lock wont be able to drain mana, I fail to see how then? Priest wearing 1200 haste or some shit? i dno bout those priests, but i never oom unless the lock spams drain on me WITH UA UP.

Also, I dont see how it would be easier if they burn the shaman. You would lose alot of pressure cuz he needs to LoS / shock / ground the burns....

I dont know really, your point seems to be flawed. How would you ever get the kill? Care to explain?


eventually the pally will be feared into the middle (or 5 yards away from pillar) - forced to bubble n repeat.

or the warrior will die in a sfury.

to the op - vs lsd, rush down the druid/lock or leave.

vs rmp - stop the opener, train rogue/priest or mage if you can get a lot of dispels n collect points once they run oom.
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#17 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 08:59 AM

eventually the pally will be feared into the middle (or 5 yards away from pillar) - forced to bubble n repeat.

or the warrior will die in a sfury.

to the op - vs lsd, rush down the druid/lock or leave.

vs rmp - stop the opener, train rogue/priest or mage if you can get a lot of dispels n collect points once they run oom.


As I've already said, we havent faced any destro LSDs so I cant talk from experience, but shouldnt you be able to dispel dispel dispel this shit since there is no UA? and pally can use cooldowns if you happen to get double cc'd? :D
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#18 ardnut

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:07 AM

Is it too risky to dispel UA and then have the other healer dispel the silence... e.g. dispel UA get silenced then the other healer instantly gets fear or something?
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#19 Saywat

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:09 AM

Is it too risky to dispel UA and then have the other healer dispel the silence... e.g. dispel UA get silenced then the other healer instantly gets fear or something?


I do this sometimes, because the paladin is the main healer. So, it depends on the situation really :)
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#20 Tankz

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Posted 07 October 2010 - 09:48 AM

As I've already said, we havent faced any destro LSDs so I cant talk from experience, but shouldnt you be able to dispel dispel dispel this shit since there is no UA? and pally can use cooldowns if you happen to get double cc'd? :D


The problem is that "dispelling" isn't that easy as you just put it to be.

Both the healers have to not only make sure they don't stand together, but also make it possible to reach eachother and the warrior at the same time.

if for example paladin gets Sfuryed behind a pillar where priest can't get him and the rng runs him out in the middle away from the pillar (think nagrand arena here) the paladin will most likely die at this point.

also the fact that the healers have to avoid 3 different CC's (clone/fear/hex) while keeping up with healing/dispelling makes it really difficult.

the hardest part, as said above is the fact that a simply sfury -> fear will kill/force bubble unless the fear pathing is with you the entire game, simply because reliably dispelling is damn difficult due to how the maps/pillars are placed and the fact that if you stand together, you'll eat a sfury --> howl -> clone*3 while your pally dies.

sure there's trinkets, cd's, etc, but eventually you'll run out of 'em - a destro LSD have the same amount of CC as an affli (we dispel through ua as well if we have to), however, thier burst is a lot scarrier.

as said above - your best bet is to rush one of 'em down really fast, if you fail at that and they survive the opener, have fun trying to beat 'em.
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