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#7821 Nejim_Beshraavi

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:35 PM

Also, De Gea doesn't look like a goalie.
He looks like your standard surfer hipster taken off the streets and placed on the pitch.
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#7822 Lmkt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Is going 1 on 1 with the keeper not a goal scoring opportunity where you come from?
not when you're 25+ meters away no

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should of [...] should of
nice

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I still feel the ref was biased... maybe it's just what is known as "home advantage".  You always get more calls in your favour at home.
"home advantage" has strictly nothing to do with refereeing. please learn football, at this point it's embarrassing
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#7823 ardnut

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:25 PM

I don't know why I even bother trying to have a discussion with this guy... I won't make the mistake again.
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#7824 Leaflet

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

You Man U fans complaining about the ref do realise that the corner that gave way to the first goal was NOT a corner?

If you're going to talk about the ref, talk about everything that went wrong, not just the calls against your team. If you want a red card for Varane, shouldn't we at least discuss Di Maria's possible penalty? I agree that Ramos could have been booked, but then again, so could Valencia for elbowing Ramos. And Van Persie was lucky not to get a second yellow card for that intentional handball.

There were some bad calls against both sides, though I have to agree ending the game without allowing Man U to take the corner was ridiculous.

#7825 Lmkt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:27 PM

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You Man U fans complaining about the ref do realise that the corner that gave way to the first goal was NOT a corner?
Maybe it's just what is known as "away advantage"? Ardnut can you shed some light on this matter please?
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#7826 ardnut

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:29 PM

If you are talking about Jones shoulder to shoulder with Di Maria you are having a laugh.  Don't remember a Valencia elbow... maybe I went to toilet when that happened (I'm not doing an Arsene Wenger impression I swear).  Even if RVP did intentionally hand ball it, which I think was ball to hand the first yellow was completely unjustified.  Ramos was barely touched.  So no way RVP should of been sent off.
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#7827 ardnut

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:30 PM

View PostLmkt, on 14 February 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

Maybe it's just what is known as "away advantage"? Ardnut can you shed some light on this matter please?[/background][/size][/font][/color]

I'm afraid you cannot be taught.  Sorry.
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#7828 Riizla

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:35 PM

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

If you are talking about Jones shoulder to shoulder with Di Maria you are having a laugh.  Don't remember a Valencia elbow... maybe I went to toilet when that happened (I'm not doing an Arsene Wenger impression I swear).  Even if RVP did intentionally hand ball it, which I think was ball to hand the first yellow was completely unjustified.  Ramos was barely touched.  So no way RVP should of been sent off.

Good joke there buddy, was shoulder to shoulder followed by left arm push, stop the bias please



#7829 Nejim_Beshraavi

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 02:44 PM

clear penalty in spain.
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#7830 Leaflet

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 02:29 PM, said:

If you are talking about Jones shoulder to shoulder with Di Maria you are having a laugh.  Don't remember a Valencia elbow... maybe I went to toilet when that happened (I'm not doing an Arsene Wenger impression I swear).  Even if RVP did intentionally hand ball it, which I think was ball to hand the first yellow was completely unjustified.  Ramos was barely touched.  So no way RVP should of been sent off.

You should know the difference between the arm and the shoulder. Shoulder to Shoulder =/= Arm to Shoulder.

About Valencia, he did get booked, my bad. As for V.P, two wrongs don't make a right. Shouldn't have been given the first yellow, but should have been booked for the handball.

Also, nothing to say about the fact that the corner of the first goal was NOT a corner?

I think it's silly to be talking about the ref, when there was bad calls for BOTH teams. Varane's red card, Jones penalty, Ramos elbow, corner not being a corner, Arbeloa + Xabi Alonso should have been booked (just remembered Arbeloa's challenge on Carrick?), Van Persie being booked for the wrong action.

#7831 BaklivaX

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostLeaflet, on 14 February 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

You Man U fans complaining about the ref do realise that the corner that gave way to the first goal was NOT a corner?

If you're going to talk about the ref, talk about everything that went wrong, not just the calls against your team. If you want a red card for Varane, shouldn't we at least discuss Di Maria's possible penalty? I agree that Ramos could have been booked, but then again, so could Valencia for elbowing Ramos. And Van Persie was lucky not to get a second yellow card for that intentional handball.

There were some bad calls against both sides, though I have to agree ending the game without allowing Man U to take the corner was ridiculous.
Real's goal came also from ref mistake so it's even. But overall ref fked up United a bit more.
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#7832 Lmkt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:12 PM

View PostRiizla, on 14 February 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Good joke there buddy, was shoulder to shoulder followed by left arm push, stop the bias please
Spoiler
This is a perfect example of a case where calling a foul or not calling it are both perfectly valid refereeing decisions. You guys should stop arguing about things that are at the ref's appreciation because there's just no point, especially if you all exaggerate by saying it's "CLEARLY" a foul/not a foul. Nothing is ever "clear" in football except objective shit like "has the ball crossed the goal line or not?".
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#7833 ardnut

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:36 PM

View PostLmkt, on 14 February 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

This is a perfect example of a case where calling a foul or not calling it are both perfectly valid refereeing decisions. You guys should stop arguing about things that are at the ref's appreciation because there's just no point, especially if you all exaggerate by saying it's "CLEARLY" a foul/not a foul. Nothing is ever "clear" in football except objective shit like "has the ball crossed the goal line or not?".

I think this is the first sensible think you have ever said in this thread...maybe there is hope yet.

OK looks like everyone is biased and ref made bad decisions both way... no point arguing any further.  I must be biased also.

I'm finding it hard to get excited about our next game (FA cup vs Reading) after playing RM ... I wish they would create a European league for real.  Teams like Utd, City, Chelsea, Barca, RM, AC, Inter, Juve, Bayrn, Dortmund, Lyon, Shaktar, etc.  Who would not want to see UTD take on RM twice a season?  So boring to watch normal games after seeing something as good as this.
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#7834 Slashgiggle

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

I think this is the first sensible think you have ever said in this thread...maybe there is hope yet.

OK looks like everyone is biased and ref made bad decisions both way... no point arguing any further.  I must be biased also.

I'm finding it hard to get excited about our next game (FA cup vs Reading) after playing RM ... I wish they would create a European league for real.  Teams like Utd, City, Chelsea, Barca, RM, AC, Inter, Juve, Bayrn, Dortmund, Lyon, Shaktar, etc.  Who would not want to see UTD take on RM twice a season?  So boring to watch normal games after seeing something as good as this.

Normal games? I dunno dude last time you guys played Reading you BARELY squeeked out a win in a 7 goal thriller, wouldn't exactly call that a shitty game lol.

Also I wasn't ACTUALLY agreeing with abulafia with my De Gea comment, I was making fun of him. I guess I should have made it more obvious
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#7835 Kawklee

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

As a law student I find the dichotomy between the strict and regimental European Civil Law Tradition and its fluid interpretation of fouls and rules in Sports really interesting.

Wheras in America with a Common Law Tradition, cases can literally swing on the interpretation of a judge and his mood, fouls and rules for sports are much more set in stone. And reviewed via cameras. And strictly enforced.

Food for thought.

#7836 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I think the ref was biased towards RM.  Patrice Evra was brought down by the last man and that was a straight red card.  RVP got booked for gently caressing Sergio Ramos' face... yet when Ramos elbows Evans nothing happened.  I have never seen a game stopped when a corner kick is about to be taken.  The rule is that the ball has to be close to the half way line before you can end the game.  You can't get any further away from the half way line than a corner kick and it had only just ticked over to 3 mins of added time.

I don't think the stats show a fair representation of the game either.  RM had more shots...but most of their shots where from outside the 18 yard box.  We had the better chances although fewer of them.  Wellbeck's and RVP's chances spring to mind... also Jones had a good opportunity to head the ball in.  For RM Contrea had a good shot saved by finger tips, but other than that you would expect a world class keeper to save all the rest of the shots RM had (Excluding both teams goal here).

All in all I think it was a fair result.  I would give De Gea man of the match just for his finger tip save... that was really top drawer.  How RVP missed from 8 yards out I just don't know... I would of bet my house on him scoring.

I dunno what to say.  I disagree.  Real Madrid certainly had more chances than just Coentrao's chance.  I think it's a bit weird to deny that fact just because a "a world class keeper" would have made those saves.  Ozil's volley with his right foot was a pretty alright chance.  Khedira's shot that took a deflection (off Carrick I THINK(?)) was another decent chance for Madrid, especially considering (1) deflections have a pretty decent chance of going in because it's something that's difficult for the goalie to account for and they've usually already made a decision on where to dive after the shot's taken (maybe sometime's before if they feel they can anticipate where the player will place it and (2) because it was a fast paced shot that De Gea did well to hold on to.  It's definitely something that he could have parried away for another chance in on goal.  I think Ronaldo's free kick, considering the distance it was taken from, the distanced it missed by and the reputation he has for making free kicks like that, was certainly a chance.  I mean just YouTube "Cristiano Ronaldo's top 10 free kicks for Manchester United."  I'd assume you being a United fan and all would remember these.  His free kick definitely had a chance of going in and De Gea stood there helpless (as most goalies do in that YouTube video I'm mentioning).  And lastly, Di Maria's volley from just outside the 18 had a chance too, if you ask me.  Maybe people will think that's pushing it but it didn't miss the post by much and had a LOT of pace to go with it as well.

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Also people saying stuff about RM buying players are just jealous... UTD have spent some big money on player too now and then.  Not as much as RM of course... but if you had RM finances you would use them ... simple as.  Would just be foolish not to.  I think RM best players were obviously Ronaldo but a close second was Contreau (or how ever his name is spelt).  Don't see how you can wish that Marcello was playing when he had an outstanding game in both defense and attack.

I'm torn because people such as myself and Breadstick have always said things like this.  So on one hand, I'm glad you're actually saying it now.  But on the other hand (and if I'm not mistaken) I feel like you're also one of the people that hate when City or Chelsea buy any top name player and break the bank.  Why the disdain towards Chelsea/City but you're okay with Madrid doing it?

View PostLmkt, on 14 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

What the fuck are you talking about? Why do we keep this kind of utterly retarded and ignorant bullshit in this thread? Syke?[/background][/size][/font][/color]

Dude, I don't know how often you look @ OT but Abulafia is historically retarded.  It'd serve you well to just keep that in mind when reading his posts.

View Postardnut, on 14 February 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

I think this is the first sensible think you have ever said in this thread...maybe there is hope yet.

OK looks like everyone is biased and ref made bad decisions both way... no point arguing any further.  I must be biased also.

I'm finding it hard to get excited about our next game (FA cup vs Reading) after playing RM ... I wish they would create a European league for real.  Teams like Utd, City, Chelsea, Barca, RM, AC, Inter, Juve, Bayrn, Dortmund, Lyon, Shaktar, etc.  Who would not want to see UTD take on RM twice a season?  So boring to watch normal games after seeing something as good as this.

I've been saying this for like 2 years now.  I'd absolutely LOVE it.

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I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#7837 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

And people keep saying (maybe it's just ardnut at this point), "I don't know how you could have wanted Marcelo in over Coentrao."  This is all hindsight bias on everyone's part who is saying this.  I already explained it too.

View PostSykeasaurus, on 13 February 2013 - 10:18 PM, said:

He was very good; I'm not denying that.  I just prefer Marcelo to Coentrao.  At least in a situation when a goal is needed.  Coentrao performed really good in an attacking sense today but that's not usually his norm.  I think most people would agree:

Marcelo's attacking ability >> Coentrao's attacking ability.
Coentrao's defensive ability > Marcelo's defensive ability.

>> being much greater than
> being greater than

Though Coentrao, like I said, definitely had a game that was worthy of a "Marcelo attacking ability", so to speak.  It's just not commonplace comparatively to Marcelo's and naturally I like the one that is more consistent.

If it were the start of the game, 0-0, I'd prefer Marcelo.
If it were 1-1 draw and you were trying to push for a win, I'd prefer Marcelo.
If it were a 1-1 draw and you were trying to hold for a draw, Coentrao would probably be better.

it's a really shitty analogy but if the two of them were midfielders, Marcelo would fill a CAM role and Coentrao would fill a CDM role.

Coentrao had an amazing game.  Who is to say Marcelo wouldn't have matched him?  Who is to say Marcelo wouldn't have eclipsed him?  Citing Coentrao's good performance vs. Marcelo's performance (a.k.a. nonexistent seeing as he didn't play) is ridiculous.  You just can't look at Coentrao's good performance and 100% know that Mourinho's decision was good and valid.

Point is, HISTORICALLY, Marcelo has a far better attacking form for Madrid than Coentrao.  That is why I would want Marcelo to start in a 0-0 game over Coentrao.  Coentrao is a fine person to play for holding a lead or trying to hold on for a draw.  He isn't a shitty player and attacks well for Portugal so it's not THAT surprising he had a good attacking game; Marcelo just has a consistently better attacking game and Coentrao has a consistently better defensive game.

Having Ronaldo and Marcelo both down the left side is a lot of offensive pressure.  Marcelo more than likely isn't as good as Roberto Carlos (yet) but he's getting better and better each time he's given the chance to attack.  He fills an attacking role for Madrid in a similar fashion to Dani Alves for Barcelona.

If you go back in time to BEFORE THE GAME WAS PLAYED, and I'm sure I said this so many times in this thread before, if I had to pick a player to start I'd go with Marcelo.  Do you remember his game vs Manchester City in the group stages?  He's a big reason Madrid put up enough goals to beat them (I think game that ended 3-2 in favor of Madrid).

That is why I wanted Marcelo to start.  And I'll say it again.  Coentrao played very, very good and I'm nothing short of impressed/very content with his performance.  I think he played his role extremely well.  But saying I wish we had a Marcelo in when it was at the start of game is just that, it's a wish based on past performance but it's NOT DISCOUNTING Coentrao's performance, as it was very good.

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#7838 Lmkt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:00 PM

dude is that really such a big deal
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#7839 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:14 PM

Is what such a big deal

bk said:

I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes


Insight said:

I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.

View PostTw1zle, on 07 August 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day

#7840 Slashgiggle

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostSykeasaurus, on 14 February 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

I'm torn because people such as myself and Breadstick have always said things like this.  So on one hand, I'm glad you're actually saying it now.  But on the other hand (and if I'm not mistaken) I feel like you're also one of the people that hate when City or Chelsea buy any top name player and break the bank.  Why the disdain towards Chelsea/City but you're okay with Madrid doing it?

Because people feel like Chelsea/PSG/City don't deserve it. Because United had to take a very long and hard road to get to the top and doing it any other way is simply unacceptable. It's obviously not just United, lots of clubs/fans feel that way.
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