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Cata Mage Suggestion - FrB and FFB


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#1 Vilerose

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:39 AM

I sent this to Affix to pass on if he sees fit, but I figured I might as well ask opinions from others as well..

I've been thinking about the latest changes to Frostfire Bolt (no dot and 2.5sec base cast time).

The way I see it (unless I'm missing more info), not much differentiates Frostfire Bolt from Frostbolt in the current beta build except two talents - Piercing Ice and Brain Freeze, which only affect Frostbolt. Additionally, Frostfire Bolt doesn't seem to serve any real purpose except as a proc for ONE of the talent trees, which admittedly is a pretty weak role for one of the three abilities mages learn from 70 to 80. Finally, many consider the current Deathfrost final mastery to be somewhat 'lackluster'.

Given this, my suggestion is to make Frostbolt more of a frost-version of Scorch (utility+moderate damage) and to allow Frostfire Bolt to become frost's main nuke.

---

The way I envision it:

Frostbolt cast time would be reduced to something like 1.5sec base cast time and deal less but still moderate damage.

Frostbolt would then serve 3 purposes: 1) Frostbolt, though still longer in cast time, could serve as R1 frostbolt does now - for slowing applications and deliberate ranged debuff cover; 2) Frostbolt would still trigger the deathfrost mastery to give all other spells additional damage*; 3) Frostbolt could be used as a way to deal moderate damage when mages know they don't have the time/opportunity get a full Frostfire Bolt off.

*Frostbolt thus becomes a very unique version of say Scorch or Immolate. While all three of these increase the damage of other spells by a certain percentage, Deathfrost damage increase is 1) a buff on the mage (Blizzard can easily modify the duration of the buff to reflect balance) rather than a debuff on one target, and 2) modified by the amount of mastery stat a Mage chooses to wear. This adds depth (more on this later).


Frostfire Bolt, as the main nuke, would be affected by both Piercing Chill** and Brain Freeze.

Given the choice, Frostfire Bolt should be the preferred method of choice for dealing damage so long as the caster has the Deathfrost buff. Thus, Frostfire Bolt should have the super damage per cast time necessary to make it preferable. Without the Deathfrost buff, however, the damage for Frostbolt would be maybe roughly 1.5/2.5 x Frostfire Bolt damage.

**Piercing Chill should no longer be triggered by Frostbolt because that would make it too powerful. Allowing it to still trigger Brain Freeze would be a balance decision based on whether Blizzard believes frost mages to be under/overpowered at the end of beta.

---

Reasoning:

This adds significant depth in both Frost PvE and PvP without even requiring the use of additional keybinds (which Blizzard dreads). Mages of all specs have always been considered to have one of the easiest, and most monotonous, PvE rotations and this would go a long way to help vary it up. In addition, this would solve problems and provide further depth simultaneously in PvP..

1) The loss of r1 frostbolt in cataclysm appears to be devestating, and the implementation of frostbolt as proposed here would give mages the option of using frostbolt in the same way that r1 frostbolt is currently used.

2) This would lessen Mage reliance on haste stacking in PvP (something Blizzard wants to fix in cata). The reason Mages currently benefit from haste so much is because they have no way to deal moderate to significant damage except through the current frostbolt which has a long base cast time. My proposal would make it so that Frostbolt would deal moderate (not significant) damage on a shorter cast time. Though frostfire bolt would be preferable for damage purposes, this gives Mages a casting option when they are pressed for cast time in PvP and would thus lessen Mage dependence on haste.

3) Due to the fact that deathfrost is a buff on the mage (presumably undispellable), frostbolt need not be cast on the target you wish to go on, giving the mage the option to attain the deathfrost buff by doing moderate damage the kill target or using it for utility on another target (options give depth).


Anyways, looking for opinions.

#2 berethorn

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:48 AM

+1

#3 Valmior

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:56 AM

mmm
:mage:

#4 Jimpro

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 01:59 AM

I Like it.

#5 Disorderly

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 02:06 AM

+rep
I've been wanting to see Frostfire Bolt get a more meaningful place in frost's rotation for awhile. One problem I see is brain freeze procs being too infuential to our burst. Fire is plagued with the same problem.

#6 Pinlol

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 02:51 AM

i'd say FFB is the weakest of all new spells you get from 70-80 (might be wrong, its late and im not thinking straight :O). We never use it outside of our Brainfreeze Procs, while shamans for instance use lava burst on Cool down.

Quote

you DO realize that beast cleave is a horrible comp, right?

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http://www.xfire.com...ideo/pinsleepe/

#7 Tevien

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 04:30 AM

AMAZING idea, would love to see this implemented.

#8 Lipgloss

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 04:33 AM

Vilerose said:


Anyways, looking for opinions.
heres an opinion

grow
the
fuck
up
idiot
(asymptotically__)

#9 Vilerose

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 05:08 AM

Lipgloss said:

heres an opinion

grow
the
fuck
up
idiot
(asymptotically__)
godblesszugrug

#10 Revert

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 05:15 AM

very interesting idea and I think I like it. Recently heard that the frost mastery was already changed to increase damage against frozen targets, although I can't confirm it.

edit: ok yeah the mastery was changed to read:
Mastery: Frostburn - All your spells deal 7% increased damage against frozen targets. Each point of mastery increases damage by an additional 2.5%.

#11 Xxlegolasxxz

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 05:33 AM

r1 mages theorycrafting just makes me oh so wet

#12 Darckli

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 06:57 AM

As I posted in another thread, this was in fact the direction the spells were headed. Frostbolt turns into the debuffer/setup, and FFB is the main nuke, provided it gets full talent support. They just veered off in another direction with the mastery, though.

EDIT: Alright so, since Affix isn't around, I feel obligated to correct people on beta things. Deathfrost is NOT a Mage self buff. It goes on your targets, when you hit them with spells.

Debuff, NOT a buff.

#13 Buglamp

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 09:26 AM

Posted this same suggestion earlier in the deathfrost thread :P
Early frost just needs to DIAF it's a horrible replacement for r1.

#14 Subzerø1296683626

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 03:23 PM

awesome idea +rep

#15 Zelas

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 08:30 PM

Awesome idea. +rep.

Would love to see that implemented.
People who throw kisses are hopelessly lazy.
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#16 wytewidow

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:21 PM

this idea gets the MVB stamp of approval

#17 Durotann

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Posted 21 August 2010 - 10:40 PM

I support this change.




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