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[3v3] wtf am i doing wrong


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#1 Lootalot

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:40 PM

Hi... I'm not that great of a player i admit and lately I've been confroted with a huge problem that makes my 3v3 (boring cleave) suffer quite a bit.

I hope i won't get trolled too much for the comp or the fact that i'm failing at it. I'm just playing wow for fun with some cool guys and I don't take arena too seriously.

My problem is that i get globaled by most spell cleaves too often. Especially Mage / Warlock / Shaman gives me a headache. At some point they will get a fear on me and if I'm walking in there direction it's an instant bubble. Next time I'm dead. I'm talking about the 2,5 ones and above of course. We tried having the disc priest doing the healing with me spamming cleanses on him so they can't jump me but if we're doing this they just pump out insane damage into our DK that i am forced to heal. Spellcoil / Fear -> silence -> dead. Often my priest is CC'ed with frog or sheep and three different debuffs so chances are high that i won't hit sheep with first dispell and after that i'm just dead either way.
Nearly forgotten to say that we're training the mage trying to get him out of mana to get a kill on him.

I wont stop playing the comp so please be a bit constructive.
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#2 Flayzor

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:51 PM

At first, learn spell names.

Spellcoil / Fear -> silence -> dead.

If you meant Death Coil, just bubble, bubble and once again bubble! Also, don't forget to use Holy Light. And don't cancel your Holy Light cast at 75% when you are in bubble, just keep them going. Basicly that's it or just stop playing boring cleave.
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#3 Savara

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 08:56 PM

Neverplayed that setup but if you're dying to spellcleaves its because:

a) you're not switching sacred shield fast enough

B) vs destro/elemental you're not dispelling enough, as long as you have immolate+flame shock dispelled they won't do any damage.

c) vs frost mage/elemental as soon as they switch on you, see if you can get a freedom up, have a lot of cleansing/dispells.

d) vs shadowpriest/mage as soon as they switch on you see if you can get a freedom up, however do NOT dispell here, if you dispell the wrong debuff its BOOM [email protected] DIspell only if 100% safe behind the pillar with a decent HP pool.

e) vs destro/frost, freedom+spamm cleanse/dispells

f) UA/elemental, sacred shield self>shock>freedom> have priest dispell you AFTER he has pom/shield/renew/whatever up on you, if he gets UA dispelled you might get fucked. After UA is removed you can assist dispelling aswell to avoid more damage.

e) your DK should be able to grip///interrupt///pet stun _one_ of the casters (either of the 3 used on a good timing will save your ass).

f) you're not using cooldowns right if you're getting shat upon, trinket right spells, auramastery before silences land etc.

Basically yeah, you counter most spellcleaves by switching sacred shield instantly, freedoming and SPAMM dispelling. Most teams damage goes shot to shit if you have everything cleansed off (unless ofcourse if its a SP team///UA lock). Keep in mind that Sacred Cleansing is currently "bugged" so a lot of spells get fully resisted (for example Frostbolt, theorethically it should only be the slow or some other debuff getting resisted, however Frostbolts get FULL damage resists aswell)

Also note that the priest dispell removes TWO debuffs while your removes one, so the Priest should be bashing that dispell button (ofcourse shield/heal but mainly dispelling since that gives you damage avoidance).
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#4 Lootalot

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:09 PM

At first, learn spell names. If you meant Death Coil, just bubble, bubble and once again bubble! Also, don't forget to use Holy Light. And don't cancel your Holy Light cast at 75% when you are in bubble, just keep them going. Basicly that's it or just stop playing boring cleave.


well sorry i didnt read it twice was just a stupid mistake because i wanted to type spell lock first but i interrupted it halfway because they just blanket silence or death coil...

And please just stfu if you dont want to contribute anything useful

Neverplayed that setup but if you're dying to spellcleaves its because:

a) you're not switching sacred shield fast enough

B) vs destro/elemental you're not dispelling enough, as long as you have immolate+flame shock dispelled they won't do any damage.

c) vs frost mage/elemental as soon as they switch on you, see if you can get a freedom up, have a lot of cleansing/dispells.

d) vs shadowpriest/mage as soon as they switch on you see if you can get a freedom up, however do NOT dispell here, if you dispell the wrong debuff its BOOM [email protected] DIspell only if 100% safe behind the pillar with a decent HP pool.

e) vs destro/frost, freedom+spamm cleanse/dispells

f) UA/elemental, sacred shield self>shock>freedom> have priest dispell you AFTER he has pom/shield/renew/whatever up on you, if he gets UA dispelled you might get fucked. After UA is removed you can assist dispelling aswell to avoid more damage.

e) your DK should be able to grip///interrupt///pet stun _one_ of the casters (either of the 3 used on a good timing will save your ass).

f) you're not using cooldowns right if you're getting shat upon, trinket right spells, auramastery before silences land etc.

Basically yeah, you counter most spellcleaves by switching sacred shield instantly, freedoming and SPAMM dispelling. Most teams damage goes shot to shit if you have everything cleansed off (unless ofcourse if its a SP team///UA lock). Keep in mind that Sacred Cleansing is currently "bugged" so a lot of spells get fully resisted (for example Frostbolt, theorethically it should only be the slow or some other debuff getting resisted, however Frostbolts get FULL damage resists aswell)

Also note that the priest dispell removes TWO debuffs while your removes one, so the Priest should be bashing that dispell button (ofcourse shield/heal but mainly dispelling since that gives you damage avoidance).


OK thank you for being constructive but sacred shield is purged off instantly. It seems the only team giving us major trouble is Mage / warlock / rshaman. LSD is just a hardcounter at a certain level i think but i can live against LSD like forever if i'm not overextending because i get bored after 20 minutes (yeah i know; getting bored playing boring cleave).
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#5 ratzor

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 09:45 PM

Well I've never really played it, only against, and I can say the 'power' of the comp (which isnt all that good to begin with...) is the capacity to outlast and peel. Most teams will be forced to go on your priest to stop burns (correct me if I'm wrong), so ask him to wear more resilience. Furthermore, try to exploit deathgrip->chains with burns, as the target is slowed forever even if he gets out of CoI slow desecration will be all over the place and burns will land almost always. I can't give you much more detail because as I said I never played that comp.. remember to use freedom on whoever's getting nuked hard and just kite around a pillar with desecration down. VS spellcleaves ask your DK to go on whoever target is giving you most issues (usually a warlock), and ask from him to interrupt certain spells (many times he can cast a fear, and it'll just get dispelled, no need to mind freeze, it's actually better as lock won't really know when he'll interrupt).

I hope that helped a bit. The only times I've lost to 'boring cleave' were when I eventually just went oom from all pestilence/burn and spread damage the comp has. Make sure you dispel pleas, innervates, etc.
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#6 Lootalot

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:26 PM

well. Don't want to be an ass or something but i think i made it clear that we don't lose cause our priest is dying because he isn't. It's just me getting globaled against those anoying mage/lock/shaman teams.
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#7 ratzor

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:39 PM

Yeah I guess my reply was a bit too general. Well if you get globalled it's almost always because you are bad positioned. You should try to stick next to a pillar at all times and, in RoV, when you see the ropes moving, start moving to the next pillar (with hand of salvation on if needed, if you got glyph). Make sure to change sacred shields as soon as you can, and if you are going to get swapped to very often, I'd think of beaconing yourself to heal yourself in-between globals when you heal someoen else and of spread damage that might help them score the kill on you. Be FAST at dispelling those immolates, which can account for a big part of a warlock's burst. Don't worry if you dispel Flame Shock (30% casting speed to shaman). If the DK dies it's because he manages his cooldowns in a very, very, wrong manner.

Again, vs spell cleaves you need to watch the CC. Make sure priest SW:D the sheep, you fear the succubus if there is one, sacrifice, etc. I'm going to repeat myself here and highlight the importance of playing next to a pillar as a paladin in double healer with a priest. Not much to say, we all know how stupid the burst/cc combination of a decent harry potter team is, just be aware of target swapping (always watch focus's target) and change sacred shield as soon as you notice the swap. If it's on you, start running away to a pillar with freedom (in case you get conflag slow, saves a GCD that might be needed later on).

Your comp isn't too awesome though... but yeah if your DK dies to a wizcleave you should just stop playing it.

Edit: if you see a lot of damage coming in, start precasting holy light. For the first one, at least, use holy wrath on the felhunter if there is one so you don't get spell locked. Otherwise just fear it. Turn Evil glyph is awesome as double healer. If there isnt a pet on you and you are maxraging next to a pillar with holy lights its very unlikely anyone will die, even with bloodlust on their part. Remember sheep is 30yd range though, so even if you think you're pretty far away, you might still get sheeped.
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#8 dopin

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:44 PM

At first, learn spell names. If you meant Death Coil, just bubble, bubble and once again bubble! Also, don't forget to use Holy Light. And don't cancel your Holy Light cast at 75% when you are in bubble, just keep them going. Basicly that's it or just stop playing boring cleave.


wtf r u talking about? 1/10
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Warlocks are the long distance runners of "being OP"...go Warlock.


#9 Lootalot

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:46 PM

positioning might be the issue but i am already at a pillar. I come out to shock / FoL and get deathcoiled. If i'm walking in the wrong direction they wait until its up again. Well, seems like cat and mouse and i just need to escape long enough until the mage is out of mana :(

Nevertheless thanks to the people trying to help.
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#10 klanksterr

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 11:59 PM

coil is a 2 min cd. if you start running into los of some harry potters just trinket it and go back to pillaring. make sure your priest doesnt get feared when they come to howl you and have him dispel you unless it's a ua lock even then if your priest has a shield/pom/renew on himself he can dispel ua without much trouble.
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#11 ratzor

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 11:18 AM

positioning might be the issue but i am already at a pillar. I come out to shock / FoL and get deathcoiled.


It's not like death coil is on a 30 second cooldown. If you see the lock walking towards you (to get in range), or targetting you or whatever, ask your priest to mash his dispel-the-paladin keybind so when/if you get deathcoiled it'll get dispelled instantly. In any case though, death coil lasts about 3 seconds, so by pure logic you will me max. 6 seconds away from your pillar (run away+run back). With sacred shield changing, heals from your priest and freedom you really can't die in 6 seconds. Dunno really.
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#12 Savara

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 03:04 PM

Coil is what, 3 seconds? If you get coiled in the open you are most likely going to get a fear right after >> they do their cool stuff. As soon as you're getting coiled out have your Priest bash dispell button to get fear/other shit off.

Yes even tho they purge Sacred shield its still worth renewing it if they're on you (assuming you ain't going to holy shock/freedom for that specific global cooldown), since it proccs on first hit almost you are most likely going to get the damage absorbed and then dispelled after.
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#13 Coldfame

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 03:52 PM

DISPELL MORE
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#14 Alkazard

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:33 PM

In most comps I'd find another problem, in yours I'd say your priest is slow on dispels.
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wear bigger wizard hats *<|¦-)


#15 Mightlol

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 06:42 PM

Use Divine Sacrifice as a personal defensive cooldown, and wear over 1k resi.

That ought to help.

edit : before critizing my sentence, i highly recommend you to read again your talent " Divine Guardian ".
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TSG shouldn't win against an equally skilled LSD but 99% of all LSDs are super retarded so it's quite easy to zerg the druid from start to finish.


#16 Lootalot

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Posted 05 August 2010 - 07:57 PM

i know what it does. But do you really think 20% will safe my ass against a frickin destruction warlock having immolate up on me with some silly mage debuffs preventing a fast dispell on it and also being purged to hell?

My personal thought is that we have to have us both on defensive mode nearly whole game and both line of sight their CC. But does that put any pressure on them regarding their manapools? I dont even care if it takes 10 minutes to get them oom...
I'm sorry the boring cleave guide isn't really up to date anymore so I'm asking this in hope to get any useful hint to do better against them.
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#17 Mightlol

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:40 PM

i know what it does. But do you really think 20% will safe my ass against a frickin destruction warlock having immolate up on me with some silly mage debuffs preventing a fast dispell on it and also being purged to hell?

dont see it this way, tell yourself it will save you.
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TSG shouldn't win against an equally skilled LSD but 99% of all LSDs are super retarded so it's quite easy to zerg the druid from start to finish.


#18 Kairu

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 06:14 PM

My question is, what is your DK doing that they both get to cast into you all the time like this?
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:paladin: WotLK!
Spoiler

#19 Fspoon

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 06:52 PM

I'm going to agree with the man that said your priest is slow on dispels, hes only there to dispel burn and fear with assist heals only when needed. Also the dk has like 5 ways to stop/slow burst on you so just stagger ghoul stun,strang and grips.
You should be fine as long as you call out when you think you are about to get nuked and have the dk use one of those and/or have the priest pain sup/dispel you.
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Dk need's mobility, the idea is I stay middle of arena like moron so every single guy from the enemy team burst the shi t out of me, and dk is free to make presure, since u guys are not use to comps with double healers becouse they are lame, coz u never play em or never been 2.8k+ its normal to dont know.


#20 Spiderr

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 07:00 PM

get the DK to sit on the mage
spam burn the mage
you win
it's such an easy comp to beat, you just don't have to be a retard
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Posted ImagePosted Image


[08/08/2010 15:12:49] spiderzor: Vanguards is streaming

[08/08/2010 15:13:13] spiderzor: no smourne though cause it's TR :(:(

[08/08/2010 15:13:47] Ragrek: I'd use T2 anyway

[08/08/2010 15:14:00] Ragrek: resilience is more important than the pitiful damage increase


-Ragrek, DK with Shadowmourne playing Boring Cleave




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