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New 31 Point Talent Trees


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#41 arthess

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:02 PM

To anyone that says x spec offers no damage and such. you missed the point of a short talent tree-- All of the +damage on a certain school of spell will be BUILT within the talent tree AKA mastery , no +X damage talent is in any tree and we only have the choice over the "fun" talents that are left over

-The tree is not bad attempt at all for a first time.

-i hope imp sheep is DR'd

we cant say that the removal of WC is that bad considering the xtra cc/defensive spell (curtain of frost/time warp) were getting. and also i heard somewhere that healer dispels are being revamped (not sure though).

WC is mostly rng anyway and don't even get stacked up against absorbs.
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#42 Watlok

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:04 PM

with that build i'd drop piercing ice and get Brain Freeze. as for the arcane tree im relatively sure u'd be better off with 2pts in Arcane Repulsion, i start most matches with Mage Armor, when i notice a melee train incoming i just swap to ice armor. Arcane Repulsion seems to be perfect for that, be opened on, knock opponents away 12 yards with 50% slow and just have a spare global breathing time to put on Ice Armor and cast a spell while they run back

Do repulsion/early frost put up auras while active? Like a visible buff that is undispellable? Pretty minor question, ultimately doesn't matter, but it'd be neat if they did for both the mage and his opponents.

Anyway, repulsion is very strong and when I can play cataclysm it will be the first talent I get. Probably 3 points in it too, because the emphasis it puts on your positioning when it becomes active again is amazing.

There are quite a few floater points in both builds, and I am pretty sure not getting BF is going to be bad. I just wanted to post two builds that approach things a little bit differently. If shatter effects incineration it'd be pretty neat, but frostbolt/arcane blast are conveniently not on it.
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#43 Lileith

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:18 PM

Every range talents are missing, and pushback reduction is somewhat broken (only in fire tree? 3 talent points? when every class get it for free at level 10, including hunter). I hope that all those will be included in the "Fire/Arcane/Frost Specialization".
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#44 Syaoran

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:22 PM

this is f'in bullshit, they even took the so called "fun" talents they were talking about...
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#45 Syaoran

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:27 PM

also u seem to be enabled to select even less of the "fun" talents... its just stupid
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#46 affix

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 07:59 PM

with that build i'd drop piercing ice and get Brain Freeze. as for the arcane tree im relatively sure u'd be better off with 2pts in Arcane Repulsion, i start most matches with Mage Armor, when i notice a melee train incoming i just swap to ice armor. Arcane Repulsion seems to be perfect for that, be opened on, knock opponents away 12 yards with 50% slow and just have a spare global breathing time to put on Ice Armor and cast a spell while they run back

the way brain freeze/arcane missiles are supposed to interact is that brain freeze replaces the AM proc, you don't get both

at present it is bugged and FFB can proc arcane missiles, but that's a bug
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#47 Watlok

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:08 PM

the way brain freeze/arcane missiles are supposed to interact is that brain freeze replaces the AM proc, you don't get both

at present it is bugged and FFB can proc arcane missiles, but that's a bug

I hope that bug becomes a feature.
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#48 Pownmeisterz

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:09 PM

Could you push for blink glyph being changed to remove snares? You should just tell them to remove IA, since its a pretty shitty talent in PvP and PvE unless they buff it to something like 30% or increase the duration by a lot.
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#49 affix

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:25 PM

Could you push for blink glyph being changed to remove snares? You should just tell them to remove IA, since its a pretty shitty talent in PvP and PvE unless they buff it to something like 30% or increase the duration by a lot.

atht'd be too strong in the context of a 15 second root break+sprint, imo
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#50 Svenn

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:39 PM

Official Blizzard Quote:

It's ZOMG AMAZING. We wouldn't go through all the work it is taking if we weren't convinced it was 100% win.


Great work, taking out good talents (Winter's Chill, Fiery Payback,Arctic Reach, Flame Throwing) and leaving other trash talents inside (3% crit over 3 talent points? seriously?)

After all their crap about making the trees better they're just dumbing down the game to please the casuals and people who just started playing.

(almost all the work they've done on Cataclysm is to make the game better for new players)

Also, friend of mine from beta says Flame Orb is shit. Slow and piss easy to dodge.


Glad I won't be playing Cata.
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#51 Watlok

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:54 PM

The idea is to remove talents that you 100% must take and bake them in to the spec/character mechanics. This leaves talents that are:

(1) situational
(2) have unclear value/add utility like the cooldown reductions in frost
(3) have a numerical effect like 3% haste early in the tree so you have to choose it over something t2 in the other secondary tree
(4) iconic talents that are no brainer must haves (aracne power/deep freeze/living bomb)

The end result they should be aiming for is talents varying based on the comp and playstyle of the player. Right now there is literally an optimal talent build unless you are counter-talenting in pre-arranged matches. Even in this shitty version of the tree there are a few valid options. Hopefully they take this idea further and make more drastic changes.

Their goal should be to dumb down the characters in order to regain a handle on the balance of the game. You literally can not balance the current WoW because whoever was adding skills/talents/abilities was a complete mongoloid who had no comprehension of the mechanics to begin with. Adding in new counters for very specific problems created problems in other matchups. If cataclysm is a reset and creates a tighter playstyle I can only support it*.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR READING AND COMPREHENDING THIS POST.

*it's not a reset, but this is a big step in the right direction
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#52 Spiderr

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:55 PM

these trees fucking suck what were they thinking
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[08/08/2010 15:12:49] spiderzor: Vanguards is streaming

[08/08/2010 15:13:13] spiderzor: no smourne though cause it's TR :(:(

[08/08/2010 15:13:47] Ragrek: I'd use T2 anyway

[08/08/2010 15:14:00] Ragrek: resilience is more important than the pitiful damage increase


-Ragrek, DK with Shadowmourne playing Boring Cleave

#53 Affect

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:19 PM

^agreed every class tree is just fucking atrocious. While I do understand it's still early blahblahblah lots of things will change. They still have taken out any versatility in across the board talent specs, which is somewhat to a degree understandable. However the compensation they're offering is so unarguably under par and a complete mess. For example right now you're just a fucking idiot of even thinking of going frost in Cata with these changes "thus" far. Arcane looks amazing, so much for broadening the horizen (making all specs viable for whatever) They better get their shit together.
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#54 angra

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:20 PM

I hope they plan on making arctic reach baseline with frost spec. I can't even imagine playing with CoC and nova having a small cone/radius. Also, do they intend on leaving every caster at 30yd range on their spells?
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#55 nim

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 09:58 PM

Hmm, I'll give it some time, but those are prertty lack luster trees.
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#56 KIA Skill

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 01:53 AM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the MASSIVE nerf to hot streak for pvp (and probably PVE). 3 crits within 6 seconds? in PVP almost not possible on a single target, in PVE going to be extremely difficult on a single target.

Also the removal of mana regen talents pretty much throws the thought of fire pvp even being remotely viable.
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#57 nim

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:00 AM

Yeah, the Hotstreak thing is dumb. Should be at least 10 seconds.
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#58 Hidden

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 02:27 AM

Two questions aimed at Affix as I'm probably not getting my key until friday:

1. How is mana right now? In PvP/PvE? Do you even use Molten Armor as Fire with the current mana situation? (They removed the 3%/5 sec talents)

2. English is not my mother tongue but when translating it to my mother tongue, Hot Streak may have 2 different behaviors, what's the right one?
a) You crit with a spell and have to crit twice in the next 6 seconds to activate Hot Streak.
B) You crit with a spell and have a 6 seconds window to crit again. If you crit again in that time, you have another 6 second window to crit again and proc the talent. Thus you could also crit at 0 seconds, 4 seconds and 9 seconds and - since there's a maximum of 6 seconds in between two crits - you still get the proc.
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#59 nim

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 04:08 AM

Two questions aimed at Affix as I'm probably not getting my key until friday:

1. How is mana right now? In PvP/PvE? Do you even use Molten Armor as Fire with the current mana situation? (They removed the 3%/5 sec talents)

2. English is not my mother tongue but when translating it to my mother tongue, Hot Streak may have 2 different behaviors, what's the right one?
a) You crit with a spell and have to crit twice in the next 6 seconds to activate Hot Streak.
B) You crit with a spell and have a 6 seconds window to crit again. If you crit again in that time, you have another 6 second window to crit again and proc the talent. Thus you could also crit at 0 seconds, 4 seconds and 9 seconds and - since there's a maximum of 6 seconds in between two crits - you still get the proc.


1. Everything I've heard says casters pretty much don't go OOM.

2. It's "a"
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#60 Hidden

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 07:24 AM

1. Everything I've heard says casters pretty much don't go OOM.

2. It's "a"


Is that information from the latest patch or before?
Because looking at all mana and mana regen changes when going from 3.3.5 to 4.0 makes me think mana as fire must be horrible in Cata:
+ more mana from gear because of SP being removed and int and stamina being increased
+ no slight mana cost increase on crits through burnout
- fireball costs 6.4% base mana/second instead of 6.~3% base mana/second (2.5 sec cast instead of 3.0 and slightly reduced cost)
- no more 50% spirit regen when casting
- no more ignite restoring 2% base mana per tick
- way less crit (removed crit talents, molten armor scaling removed, harsh drop in crit when leveling) to get mana back from MoE

And if it's really 'a', then the new Hot Streak looks not only like a big nerf but also really horrible taking the overall drop in crit into account.
However that assumes it doesn't proc from DoT crits, it's a whole different story if it does.

Edit: This is all assuming you're still using molten armor for DPS purposes.
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