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Rogue Metas


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#21 hid

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 07:52 PM

Dracula said:

Take this for example, your playing RMP and you open on something. You muti 2x and then env, and both mutis crit.

The damage you gained on the mutis FAR out weighs anything you would gain from FA/FW on the short seconds of the openers anyways. The same goes for swaps...

Seems totally reasonable to run with 5/5 lethal and poisons(to stack faster on swaps and openers) running with 5300 AP and 39% passive ARP with talents and items.

You have to consider in RMP esp when koreans play it it's rare for them to be on a target long enough to get use out of FA.

All I see is a load of assumptions without any data or even any reasoning behind it. I don't agree with anything you said here, you're wrong.

For example find weakness is _ALWAYS_ more damage than lethality, even if you got 100% critrate on a 600 resil target. If you don't understand why this is, please read up on it instead of replying to this thread and questioning what I've said again. :P

#22 hid

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:04 PM

Lieto said:

I was talking about mutilate. Also your calculation failed anyway unless your recount shows that 66% of your attacks crit on resilience. If anything even for shadow dance its closer to 33% (1% damage) rather then 66% (2% damage).

No, you don't understand how the RED stacks, the data I posted is correct.

Quote

Now about lethality again.
It increase the critical damage of mutilates by 15%. Lets say 10% on resilience.
Since around 45% of your mutilates crit on resilience (42% base crit +15% punct wounds -12% resi)
—  the overall damage increase for mutilate is 5%

You're using the same flawed calculations here as the ones I questioned earlier in the thread, please re-read my previous posts and you might understand why what you just posted here is so wrong. (A tiny hint: stop saying things like "let's say" when doing math, and actually calculate the exact value instead)

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Right there we already see how its more sht that FW already in ANY situation. (6%>5%)
And thats not even factoring FA which you will have 2/3 if you invest 3pts in FW.
IThere is no reason to build any assumption around the fact that all your mutilates crit because its simply not true but even if they somehow will crit added benefit from FA and FW contributing to envenom will easily outweight it. But again, it WONT chain crit 4 times in a row.

I hope thats enough maths for you.

What you just did here isn't math, it's random flawed assumptions backed up by more flawed assumptions, then you draw the wrong conclusion based on this and pat yourself on the back saying "I must be right" because your flawed logic and non-existant understanding of the game just "proved" that you're right.

I wonder why I even bother saying anything on these forums, so frustrating with clueless people questioning what you say even though they got no idea what they're talking about.

#23 Trakke

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 08:25 PM

SPELL REFLECT
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#24 Lieto

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 11:45 PM

Quote

You're using the same flawed calculations here as the ones I questioned earlier in the thread, please re-read my previous posts and you might understand why what you just posted here is so wrong. (A tiny hint: stop saying things like "let's say" when doing math, and actually calculate the exact value instead)

Quote

What you just did here isn't math, it's random flawed assumptions backed up by more flawed assumptions, then you draw the wrong conclusion based on this and pat yourself on the back saying "I must be right" because your flawed logic and non-existant understanding of the game just "proved" that you're right.

So are you saying that my calculations about mutilate damage increase with 5/5 lethality is wrong? Correct me then. What would it be?
Mutilate damage with 40% base crit on a target with 12% crit reduction with 5/5 lethality will increase by — *your answer here* (vs 0/5 lethality obviously)

Also, you are right that i should use "lets say" less but i simply cant be arsed to use calculator for this. From what i can count in my head its somewhat around 5% to 7.5% damage increase for your mutilate. Both numbers doesnt look particularly exciting.

Now to the gem part:

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Some quick math based on my gear and subt spec, the RED (only the 3% critdmg part, not the agi) is slightly more than a 2% overall dps
This is bsht tbh. And here is why:
To calculate approximate impact of this gem we need to determine how many of your attacks actually crit (including poisons etc). You have 50% crit which is 38% past resilience, that applies to everything but stab and ambush. Stab got 80% crit and judging by my recount is around 30% of your total damage on arena, 68% crit past resilience. So your average crit chance is (38% for 70% of your damage and 68% for 30% of your damage) is 48%. Lets make it 50%.

Now 50% of your damage is affected by this meta and increased by 3%. 3% for 50% damage is 1.5% for 100%. Show me how did you get your "higher then 2%". m, mr math genius?

Throwing insults doesnt make you look smart.
I havent seen any of your calculations yet though.
And stop referring to "your little tool".
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#25 hid

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:11 AM

Lieto said:

So are you saying that my calculations about mutilate damage increase with 5/5 lethality is wrong? Correct me then. What would it be?
Mutilate damage with 40% base crit on a target with 12% crit reduction with 5/5 lethality will increase by — *your answer here* (vs 0/5 lethality obviously)

Also, you are right that i should use "lets say" less but i simply cant be arsed to use calculator for this. From what i can count in my head its somewhat around 5% to 7.5% damage increase for your mutilate. Both numbers doesnt look particularly exciting.

Now to the gem part:

This is bsht tbh. And here is why:
To calculate approximate impact of this gem we need to determine how many of your attacks actually crit (including poisons etc). You have 50% crit which is 38% past resilience, that applies to everything but stab and ambush. Stab got 80% crit and judging by my recount is around 30% of your total damage on arena, 68% crit past resilience. So your average crit chance is (38% for 70% of your damage and 68% for 30% of your damage) is 48%. Lets make it 50%.

Now 50% of your damage is affected by this meta and increased by 3%. 3% for 50% damage is 1.5% for 100%. Show me how did you get your "higher then 2%". m, mr math genius?

Throwing insults doesnt make you look smart.
I havent seen any of your calculations yet though.
And stop referring to "your little tool".

In my first post I explained that the meta isn't just a 3% damage increase on crits, because of how it double dips and scales with some talents, etc. Very simply put the RED meta turns the "2*normaldamage" calculations used for melee crits into 2*1.03*normaldamage, which in turn means that the actual damage is increased by 2*1.03 = 2.06 (ie, the same as 2 points in lethality).

The quick math I was talking about was just me throwing a very ugly (but accurate and pretty useful) perl script together with calculations based off of/borrowed from iDPS and DrDamage: http://pastebin.ca/1893132

#26 ohi

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:13 AM

off topic:

lieto are you aware that you are using boomkin boots with sp/crit?

#27 Supastarpowa

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:17 AM

ohi said:

off topic:

lieto are you aware that you are using boomkin boots with sp/crit?

LOL WTF

ps + rep and ive never repped anyone so know in your heart that its worth millions of rep

#28 hid

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:18 AM

ohi said:

off topic:

lieto are you aware that you are using boomkin boots with sp/crit?

Lol, that's just brilliant. :)

Edit: I also had to +rep you, after the guy above reminded me. :)

#29 clusky

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:36 AM

ohi said:

off topic:

lieto are you aware that you are using boomkin boots with sp/crit?

:o

+rep anyways made me laugh

Clustercluck said:

I'm sure your university doesn't appreciate you bloodlusting on their pianos

Kelarm said:

It's like trying to ride 3 horses with one ass.

#30 hid

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:40 AM

Assuming this isn't intentional (I highly doubt it is seeing how the boots are socketed with arp >.<) Ohi just gave this guy a pretty nice damage boost by pointing out he's got the wrong boots on ;)

#31 Lieto

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:48 AM

I think i just won like "the most stupid rogue of the year" title xD
Awgawd... this is frustrating.
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#32 ohi

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 05:59 AM

naaaaaaah =] everyone makes mistakes lol


thanks for rep friends!

#33 Touchmytail

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:48 PM

so fleet footed + snare meta stack, would voodoo shuffle stack with them aswell?

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yes; they're real Ray Bans

#34 Panzerkampf

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 09:37 PM

Touchmytail said:

so fleet footed + snare meta stack, would voodoo shuffle stack with them aswell?

yes

#35 Mewee

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 03:29 PM

Stun reduction meta

#36 Razorscythe

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 03:37 PM

ohi said:

off topic:

lieto are you aware that you are using boomkin boots with sp/crit?

because he wished to be a boomking and faceroll :D?




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