Jump to content

Has the design of death knights been a failure in WOTLK?


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
85 replies to this topic

#1 GLopez

GLopez
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Emerald Dream
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 8870
  • Talents: Unholy 0/1/2/2/0/2

Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:58 AM

Think about it: The only thing our class does is promote the imbalance of another class. The only real exception to this is Shadowcleave, which is the closest thing death knights have to a RMP-like comp, and it's not even that tough to play for the death knight.

But look at our comps:

TSG: Death knight "sets up" kills as warrior does retarded damage, typically to a priest, warlock, rogue or shaman.

PHD: Death knight peels for the hunter as he does unbearable ranged damage to one target.

Double healer: Death knight keeps people in the open as a priest spams Mana Burn.

None of this is to say that the death knight is ineffectual when it comes to damage, but the fact of the matter is this class is the only DPS class in the entire game who has a secondary role in damage and a primary role in utility, particularly in living for ridiculous amounts of time while peeling with the same two abilities. And none of that is anything that's really unique to the class, which is why classes like warlocks and warriors can typically fill in for a death knight and also provide more pressure.

The biggest proof of this is what death knights face in 5v5, Which is almost non-existence. After all, if death knights do nothing but provide peels and tons of survivability, why would you ever take one in a bracket that demands some sort of unique offensive utility and pressure?

It's also the same problem with the imbalanced comps like spell cleave and old melee cleaves: All they do is exploit a very specific aspect of the game, particularly with burst damage. Similarly, all death knights do is allow a certain class to exploit its own imbalances, particularly with burst damage.

I've been kinda bored with 3v3 lately, and it's just had me thinking about this sort of stuff. The design we have now has basically created the most unimportant class in the history of the game.

Things like Dark Simulacrum and Necrotic Strike could obviously change this stuff up, but it's safe to say that Blizzard's design for death knights during all of WOTLK has been an outright failure.

#2

  • Premium Junkies
  • Curse Premium
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Fenris
  • Whirlwind
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 18 June 2010 - 01:58 AM

yes

#3 Pwnarii

Pwnarii
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 717
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:07 AM

yap
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

#4 Yahwee

Yahwee
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Archimonde
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 597
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:13 AM

GLopez12 said:

Think about it: The only thing our class does is promote the imbalance of another class. The only real exception to this is Shadowcleave, which is the closest thing death knights have to a RMP-like comp, and it's not even that tough to play for the death knight.

But look at our comps:

TSG: Death knight "sets up" kills as warrior does retarded damage, typically to a priest, warlock, rogue or shaman.

PHD: Death knight peels for the hunter as he does unbearable ranged damage to one target.

Double healer: Death knight keeps people in the open as a priest spams Mana Burn.

None of this is to say that the death knight is ineffectual when it comes to damage, but the fact of the matter is this class is the only DPS class in the entire game who has a secondary role in damage and a primary role in utility, particularly in living for ridiculous amounts of time while peeling with the same two abilities. And none of that is anything that's really unique to the class, which is why classes like warlocks and warriors can typically fill in for a death knight and also provide more pressure.

The biggest proof of this is what death knights face in 5v5, Which is almost non-existence. After all, if death knights do nothing but provide peels and tons of survivability, why would you ever take one in a bracket that demands some sort of unique offensive utility and pressure?

It's also the same problem with the imbalanced comps like spell cleave and old melee cleaves: All they do is exploit a very specific aspect of the game, particularly with burst damage. Similarly, all death knights do is allow a certain class to exploit its own imbalances, particularly with burst damage.

I've been kinda bored with 3v3 lately, and it's just had me thinking about this sort of stuff. The design we have now has basically created the most unimportant class in the history of the game.

Things like Dark Simulacrum and Necrotic Strike could obviously change this stuff up, but it's safe to say that Blizzard's design for death knights during all of WOTLK has been an outright failure.
mages??
Posted Image

#5 Angelo

Angelo
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Black Dragonflight
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1034
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:43 AM

Yahwee said:

mages??

No.

#6 Khader

Khader
  • Members
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Destromath
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 215
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/2/1/2/0
  • 2v2: 96
  • 3v3: 1480
  • 5v5: 957

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:44 AM

As much as I feel that deathknights are far too weak right now, I still hate you all for season 5 so I say you deserve it
Originally Posted by Mightlol  

ps : Barkskin > Bubble as a defensive cooldown, tho its right Bubble may be used as a " second trinket "

#7 Vtec

Vtec
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 904
  • Talents: Unholy
  • RBG: 3000

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:46 AM

Khader said:

As much as I feel that deathknights are far too weak right now, I still hate you all for season 5 so I say you deserve it

+rep because you made a large contribution to this thread.

#8 Taylorswift

Taylorswift
  • Churp
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 550
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:51 AM

GLopez12 said:


None of this is to say that the death knight is ineffectual when it comes to damage, but the fact of the matter is this class is the only DPS class in the entire game who has a secondary role in damage and a primary role in utility, particularly in living for ridiculous amounts of time while peeling with the same two abilities.


sounds like really good mages in really good rmps

(orangemarmalade's damage/damage taken after every match this past mlg)

#9 Deathlygnome

Deathlygnome
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1323
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:53 AM

Taylorswift said:

sounds like really good mages in really good rmps

(orangemarmalade's damage/damage taken after every match this past mlg)

Beyond terrible comparison.

#10 Taylorswift

Taylorswift
  • Churp
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 550
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:55 AM

Deathlygnome said:

Beyond terrible comparison.

really?
i don't see how the mage's role in rmp is more damage than utility.
utility, survive until your team can burst---burst something down

#11 Bullcopter

Bullcopter
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Burning Legion
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 196
  • Talents: Fury

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:56 AM

the difference is the mage can burst with a fbolt ice lance insta ffb for some pretty high pressure

#12 Deathlygnome

Deathlygnome
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1323
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 18 June 2010 - 02:57 AM

Taylorswift said:

really?
i don't see how the mage's role in rmp is more damage than utility.
utility, survive until your team can burst---burst something down

Except a mage can make use of his utility while ripping someone apart? They don't waste a major part of their damage to keep someone slowed for 3 seconds before any other slow becomes stronger.

#13 Taylorswift

Taylorswift
  • Churp
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 550
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:00 AM

Deathlygnome said:

Except a mage can make use of his utility while ripping someone apart? They don't waste a major part of their damage to keep someone slowed for 3 seconds before any other slow becomes stronger.

i suppose you are unable to attack after you use strangulate and deathgrip

#14 Salladhar

Salladhar
  • Junkies
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • US-Frostmane
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 460
  • Talents: Unholy

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:03 AM

Taylorswift said:

i suppose you are unable to attack after you use strangulate and deathgrip

Strangulate and Deathgrip are your amazing utility retorts? Seriously?

Lolflay said:

I can honestly do nothing but laugh at you if you think that mages are super strong on the highest level of play.

#15 Taylorswift

Taylorswift
  • Churp
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 550
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:05 AM

Salladhar said:

Strangulate and Deathgrip are your amazing utility retorts? Seriously?

shit, you're right




















i forgot gnaw


but anyway, back to op's actual topic, you can't say their design is a failure..it is almost as if dk's are at a BC state while these other classes that you listed are at a wotlk state

see hunters and warlocks in all of bc

#16 Deathlygnome

Deathlygnome
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1323
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:07 AM

Taylorswift said:

shit, you're right

i forgot gnaw


but anyway, back to op's actual topic, you can't say their design is a failure..it is almost as if dk's are at a BC state while these other classes that you listed are at a wotlk state

see hunters and warlocks in all of bc

I know hunters weren't exactly #1. But are you saying warlocks were bad? Sl/Sl locks could solo certain 3s comps. Someone report this kid for trolling.

#17 Raia

Raia
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Lightbringer
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 3742
  • Talents: Retribution
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:11 AM

Spread damage is so useless guys :rolleyes:

I'll give you 6k Scourge Strikes if you remove Chains or Desecration.

#18 Atraille

Atraille
  • Premium Junkies
  • Curse Premium
  • Posts: 474

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:14 AM

I don't think the class design is bad...

I think the comps are just limited because you're a melee with no MS... which appears to make the situation worse than it is.

See Beast Cleave and Hunter/Ret/RSham.

I don't think it's so much a problem with design... but other factors... that may make it seem that way.

#19 Deathlygnome

Deathlygnome
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1323
  • Talents: Frost

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:15 AM

Atraille said:

I don't think the class design is bad...

I think the comps are just limited because you're a melee with no MS... which appears to make the situation worse than it is.

And no CC. And no ways out.

But cya later.

#20 Taylorswift

Taylorswift
  • Churp
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 550
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 18 June 2010 - 03:18 AM

Deathlygnome said:

And no CC.
desecration
chains
other things referenced above




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<