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#41 Mrly

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 08:50 PM

obv im gonna make bullshit excuses cause im shit, but its cool that you took a literally 1 minute 30 seconds to type in "sanch" and "alazak". I play arcane cause im garbage then try to call things no skill yet dont see irony or hypocriticalness. FRP is really dominating live right now


hm thats all i read.
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#42 jaredd

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 08:55 PM

http://www.wowhead.com/item=32641

still the best imo :)
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#43 Feralswipes

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:16 AM

hm thats all i read.


its "alakaz", get it right kid
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+rep if i helped

#44 Fierss

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:38 AM

The number on my debuff frame has nothing to do with it, the actual stun time is still reduced by 1 full second. You can go test it in game right now.


lol
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#45 Knaittiz

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 12:52 PM

This meta just reflected a mage's polymorph which fucked up his evocation. <3
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#46 Gunnermaniac

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 12:59 PM

This meta just reflected a mage's polymorph which fucked up his evocation. <3


Deserves a FUCK YE
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#47 Knaittiz

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 01:10 PM

Deserves a FUCK YE

:cool:
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#48 Gunnermaniac

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 01:49 PM

No but in all honesty, poor mage.
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#49 KIA Skill

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:19 PM

My dk has been using this meta for a while now. I always wondered why until I saw him reflect a death coil and a hex in the same game vs an RLS and I laughed my ass off.
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#50 Bumhead

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:31 PM

I use , reflected a few HOJ's , more fun than 25 spell power or some shit which is harly game winning
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#51 Gunnermaniac

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:33 PM

I use , reflected a few HOJ's , more fun than 25 spell power or some shit which is harly game winning


3% crit damage is why the meta is good.
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#52 Feralswipes

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:43 PM

1% chance for a gamechanging reflect, GJ blizz
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#53 Bumhead

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 02:57 PM

3% crit damage is why the meta is good.


extra 1-200 damage :S spell reflect >>>> that
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#54 Gunnermaniac

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:00 PM

extra 1-200 damage :S spell reflect >>>> that


Well it's definitely more fun.
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#55 e1337

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:02 PM

Used it before, got some epic poly/cyclone/fear reflects.
Once reflected coi and dk kited himself, gj.
But well it's a random.
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Yeah, but have you really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like about the GCD hack?


Spoiler


#56 Ceraphin

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:12 PM

well i notice it quite rarely proccing but IF it proccs it's always winning the game. (like a non DR'd cyclone that some resto druid was casting me or or a HoJ in 2s)
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:)

#57 Nermó

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 03:16 PM

i hate this gem.
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#58 jizoke

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 07:24 PM

Some DK reflected my SW:P the other day.
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#59 Voksen

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 01:24 AM

First off great thread Art! I was thinking of re-opening the meta debate myself ;). You make good points about shatterplay and that 1% really seems worthwhile to try out. The people I've talked to all say it feels more like a 5% chance to reflect, or always seems to happen on clutch spells. Its hard to know if the thing is internally broken or tweaked "better" than advertised...but on paper the 1% reflect just seems like kinda weak RNG...that every now and than randomly wins you a game. Personally, I don't know if that would fit into my philosophy of out-working people as shatterplay...preferring instead to rely on consistent gains instead of gimmicks.

The trend to sport the reflect meta was re-popularized by some RMP priests and mages at tournament competition. I believe they used it because the stacked effect of both players running it meant statistically at least one clutch reflect for their team at some point in a series or definitely in the tournament. And of course, on that level a reflected cyclone or sheep wins you money....and since they're already so on top of their game to be at that level, I'm sure a bit of extra crit dmg or mana-return isn't really going to do anything dramatic for their success (aside from proper min/maxing for the fight).

So by that logic, its fantastic.

For the regular aspiring gladiator schmucking at or around less than cutoff rating; they can probably boost their mmr more consistently or thoroughly through more mana or more dmg (i.e. metas that do that).


I did a lot of thinking about metagems last week, valuing how effective each of them really were.

The +3% crit damage is almost worthless on resilience targets, I'm running with 3/5 shadow power now because the loss of 40% crit damage might sound like much in theory but in reality it has a very small impact on your overall damage on 1200 resilience, let alone the miniscule 3% from the metagem.

10% Stun reduction is almost worthless as well, seeing as we already got 30% from unbreakable will. The metagem and the talent does indeed stack with each other, but not additively for 30+10=40%, but multiplicatively so its more like 33%. I did a lot of testing with a rogue friend, cheapshotting and kidneyshotting me for over 30 minutes, with both 10% stun reduction gem, 15% stun reduction (TBC gem) and 0% stun reduction in pve spec. The difference in stun lenghth with metagem is not noticable at all if you already are talented in UW.

Ember Skyflare diamond: 25spellpower + 2% intellect
In my pvp gear (4p wrathful, 277 tier chest, 277 valanars) I got 1164 intellect
That's +23 intellect which is 358 mana. Terrible choice.

Beaming Earthsiege Diamond: +21 Critical Strike Rating and +2% Mana
With my 21k manapool it's an increase of 420 mana. Bad.

Insightful Earthsiege Diamond: +21 Intellect and Chance to restore mana on spellcast
This one is very decent, as not only does it give you 315 mana passive (and a small bit of crit), it has also been said to have a 15s ICD. Wowhead estimates the proc to be worth about 60-75 mp5 in a near constant casting situation, which is about half of what a normal version solace provides. Not too shabby, considering the other alternatives are pretty bad.

Considering the metagems of wotlk are all pretty terrible and not very gamebreaking, it's safe to assume that it won't have much of an impact on your games which one you take. With that said, the spell reflect meta could be a fun option, or maybe even the TBC one that gives you +5% stun resistance, which is cool whenever RNG is on your side. However, the mana restore meta is probably the best right now, too bad it has no offensive passive stats.

But after seeing this thread im probably gonna try and run around with the reflect meta a bit and see how I like it, as I dont really lose anything important by switching.


Agree with this logic pretty much (I have also done a TON of over-analyzing here LOL). I've been running with the mana-restore lately and its a huge increase. I forget the conversion to mp5, but I think its in the 60-80 mp5 range, which ilvl budget-wise would be the equivalent of a LOT of +crit, or sp, or anything. The mana-restore fits in well with my whole "outplay" philosophy and also closes the gap for my mana issues until I actually get proper mana gear like solace or more mooncloth...at which point I won't use the mana restore meta anymore.


****

As someone else pointed out, this is IMO the single best meta in the game:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=32641

The stun RESISTANCE follows the same purpose as the spell reflect, where some clutch RNG will win you a game. Again, maybe spell reflects will win you more games than resisting a stun...which is better probably depends on your style or what gives you trouble on your mmr/BG. But consider the 5% over a 1% chance. On paper its much more "probable", and from what I can deduce, like the reflect meta, it seems to happens much more often than advertised, or at much more clutch times.

Consider most of the stuns in the game:
Bash, maim, pounce, gnaw, intimidation, deep freeze, impact, HoJ, CS, KS, Bash, Shadowfury, charge, intercept, concussion blow, war stomp, sap, etc....

If I were a shaman I'd probably be all over that meta. As a priest with unbreakable will, RESIST seems more valuable than additional stun duration reduction (which as mentioned is on multiplicative diminishing return).



REFLECT SPELL vs. RESIST STUN

As a shadowpriest, resisting a stun can be equally clutch as reflecting a spell. Reflecting a spell like deepfreeze or shadowfury at 1% is about as clutch as resisting one (stun) at 5%. But also being able to resist kidneys and gnaws and the likes of stuff that really set you behind...seems quite appealing to me.

Moreover, when you REFLECT a sheep or cyclone onto a target that you're killing anyway...you may have fucked yourself by stripping dots or stopping a kill, or proc'ing some ability or setting off diminishing returns for your own team. REFLECT is the most RNG of all....RESIST is sorta less chaotic RNG (for your own team).

+Rep if these comments made good sense and/or helped anyone.
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#60 psyhawk

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 01:27 AM

dont think stuff like shadowfury can be reflected, but i could be wrong
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