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no dks in top 100?


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#41 Pitiless

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:50 AM

Our reputation plummetted, gnaw got nerfed to double its cooldown and SS got nerfed _again_ to be the current version in 3.3. Once again people said "DK's are fine". Now we finally got a buff in our long list of nerfs and now we are "more than fine". Can you spot the pattern? We're fine as long as we suck. Such is the legacy of season 5.


Actually I'd say before the recent buffs most people thought DKs were a little weak and could use some help (including me). Now most people think DKs are fine and that it's about time DKs stop constantly crying.

You don't have large burst damage. As an unholy dk you spread diseases around and usually end up topping the meters in overall dmg, while having strong defensive cooldowns and decent peels. If you don't like that game design then re-roll a class with strong burst. You're never going to have both.
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#42 Schmeiser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:55 AM

Lawdy thinks he's a warrior
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#43 Varash

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:02 PM

Actually I'd say before the recent buffs most people thought DKs were a little weak and could use some help (including me). Now most people think DKs are fine and that it's about time DKs stop constantly crying.

You don't have large burst damage. As an unholy dk you spread diseases around and usually end up topping the meters in overall dmg, while having strong defensive cooldowns and decent peels. If you don't like that game design then re-roll a class with strong burst. You're never going to have both.



.
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#44 lermont

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:09 PM

The amount will hit cloth and plate for a similar number yes, but our damage vs cloth (compared to the current SS) will actually go down. Its all about weapon scaling on the strike itself vs different armoured targets. The 3.2 scourge strike (which most of us want back) crit for about 4.5-5k back in late season 7 before 3.3 came out.


How will it make ss damage go down on cloth, please enlighten me. Atm i have around 25% phisical damage mitigation, so lets say your scourge strike has 50% phisical component in it, i end up taking 12,5% less damage from your SS due to my armor. If your ss was fully shadow damage then i take 12,5% more damage , simple? And if you think that 5,5 scourge strike crits are fine, than you are biased as hell. There is one major thing that will never allow for such damage - your perfect well around class. There is way to stop retarded damage from any class, hell, even hunter dies in 2 globals against wizard cleaves, however thats not the case with dk. You are GODLIKE.

Now you could ask for SS total damage damage nerf alongside it, but that will nerf dks' pve damage , SS would hit for less on fully sundered target. Blizz is reluctant to nerf PvE cos of PvP.

Once again people said "DK's are fine". Now we finally got a buff in our long list of nerfs and now we are "more than fine". Can you spot the pattern? We're fine as long as we suck. Such is the legacy of season 5.


Nobody likes dks , i think you know the reasons: too good anti-kiting and survivabilty and too many bugs, make people's in pve and pvp fps drop a lot. DKs are the most hated class in wow hands down.
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#45 Lawdyx

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:13 PM

Nobody likes dks , i think you know the reasons: too good anti-kiting and survivabilty and too many bugs, make people's in pve and pvp fps drop a lot. DKs are the most hated class in wow hands down.


hunter > *
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#46 SeedSargeras

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:16 PM

Some people will never take off the S5 Goggles, and are permanently scarred from S5 apparently. Those people will never be happy with any positive changes or some kind of buffs to the DK Class until the class gets removed.
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#47 Varash

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:17 PM

hunter > *


idk, i think DKs are probably more hated overall then hunters
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#48 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:17 PM

Actually I'd say before the recent buffs most people thought DKs were a little weak and could use some help (including me). Now most people think DKs are fine and that it's about time DKs stop constantly crying.

You don't have large burst damage. As an unholy dk you spread diseases around and usually end up topping the meters in overall dmg, while having strong defensive cooldowns and decent peels. If you don't like that game design then re-roll a class with strong burst. You're never going to have both.


Not exactly. Some started to admit that DK's needed help, but whenever we brought up the fact that DK's were weak and needed this buff, or that buff, we were told "OH IT WILL BE SEASON FIVE ALL OVER AGAIN" - even in the case of completely reasonable changes (such as the unholy blight disease cleansing blocker that came in 3.3.3).

Basically, as long as we said nothing we needed help but whenever conversation actually started we would get flooded by people who are amazingly still butthurt over season 5 saying that DKs are still overpowered or are fine. This demographic was largely rogues/mages/priests, and it continues to this day.

And you honestly expect people to reroll after possibly making DK's their new main and spending a lot of time and effort on it? No class is a utility class, no class is a support class. These are just apologetic terms people give to shit classes. Every class brings both damage and utility or healing and utility.

The utility card that people play whenever DK's are discussed is overused and exagerrated. When you see classes like mages, hunters, warlocks, warriors having the damage that they do along with their utility (two polymorphs or two fears in a row has the same effect as every single DK cooldown chained into eachother) and then you see death knights, you see a gap in design.
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#49 Lawdyx

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:17 PM

lawdy thinks dk's need to come a warrior without ms, and with chains, 10+ defensive cd's and a pet and the same dmg as warrior . rofl.


that's exactly what we are now?
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#50 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:23 PM

How will it make ss damage go down on cloth, please enlighten me. Atm i have around 25% phisical damage mitigation, so lets say your scourge strike has 50% phisical component in it, i end up taking 12,5% less damage from your SS due to my armor. If your ss was fully shadow damage then i take 12,5% more damage , simple? And if you think that 5,5 scourge strike crits are fine, than you are biased as hell. There is one major thing that will never allow for such damage - your perfect well around class. There is way to stop retarded damage from any class, hell, even hunter dies in 2 globals against wizard cleaves, however thats not the case with dk. You are GODLIKE.

Now you could ask for SS total damage damage nerf alongside it, but that will nerf dks' pve damage , SS would hit for less on fully sundered target. Blizz is reluctant to nerf PvE cos of PvP.



Nobody likes dks , i think you know the reasons: too good anti-kiting and survivabilty and too many bugs, make people's in pve and pvp fps drop a lot. DKs are the most hated class in wow hands down.


I thought I made it clear in my post. 5.5k maximum was on mages only, with best in slot weapons. This is because most mages wear fuck all resilience. I also added the factor of shadow resistance, since dk's can only afford to stack about 130 you have a 100 lead as a mage if you use mage armour and play with a priest (i.e, most mages). This means that SS damage could crit you for as little as 3.5/4k which is very low compared to the current SS which crits as much as 6-6.5k on mages who use pve pieces and pvp. Vs warlocks you're talking 4k, priests about the same. Mages also kite better, how often is a dk going to even hit you?

Heavy armour wearers you're talking about 4.5k, maybe 5k with procs up but thats probably pushing it.

There is no bias here, that damage is fine. Please do not forget that DK's have about 24% crit with scourge strike in PvP, and if its full shadow it gets rinsed by shadow res.

Seems to me that you just knee-jerk on my replies without even understanding what i'm saying.
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#51 Rendom-N!cke-

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:24 PM

Probably because 2s and 5s are balls and makes up a chunk of the top 100 requirement :P


this exactly
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#52 Shaodan

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:01 PM

idk why all of you think that DK should be a bursty class, you've got a bunch of defensive/peeling spells, and your sustained damage is pretty good imo. its just the design of the class, its like a destruction lock QQing about not having sustained damage =/
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#53 Naga

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:13 PM

idk why all of you think that DK should be a bursty class, you've got a bunch of defensive/peeling spells, and your sustained damage is pretty good imo. its just the design of the class, its like a destruction lock QQing about not having sustained damage =/


We probably whine because most games theese days dont go for enough time to take advantage of our sustained dmg, i cant use my sustained dmg if my partner gets blown up in 30 sec, and untill people figure out thats what we are whining about we will never ever agree.

YES we have great aoe and we win overall meters, but we dont do any REAL pressure, ala a hunter or war, and since thats the kind of dmg that gets kills, it should be pretty self explanatory (spelling?).
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#54 Skillionaire

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:20 PM

who said it's a supporter class? does it say so in the wotlk manual or on the blizzard homepage or where do people get this bullshit from? just cause dks can use chains and grip they are automatically a supporter class?


This, pretty much.

But I guess it's the AJ-bandwaggon-syndrome. Someone states "lol ur not sposed to have dmgz cuz u gusy r support class noob" and most clueless people just jump on it and use this argument in any thread where the class gets discussed, without an ounce of understanding about what they are stating.

Also, people have no clue about how horrid mobility DK's have. Probably the worst of all melee.

Anyway, I think the disease protection buff was huge and it does certainly help against abominations like cleansing totem (yes, some shamans can admitt it). The problem with DK's are that they are balanced for PvP purely around the Unholy tree and blizzard insists on that. At the same time they insist to make it the highest DPS spec for PvE aswell. If Frost was the main Dps tree for PvE we would never have seen Scourge Strike getting redesigned 4 times within a month or two... it ended up being a huge nerf in PvP. It literally hits mail & plate like a wet noodle. A 41-talent ability that the entire tree is built around... it's disgustingly bad design.
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#55 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:25 PM

idk why all of you think that DK should be a bursty class, you've got a bunch of defensive/peeling spells, and your sustained damage is pretty good imo. its just the design of the class, its like a destruction lock QQing about not having sustained damage =/


Bursty? Ele shamans doing 10k lvb's is bursty, shatter combos and chaos->conflag is bursty. We want consistant damage across all armour types, instead of 6k crits on cloth and 2k on plate we want about 4k-5k on both. Thats not any kind of serious burst, its just steady damage.

Plus our quality of utility is nowhere near high enough to justify such pathetic single target pressure. Oh yeah, and how often do you really see a destro lock complaining about lack of sustained damage? Pretty much never, because if you have good enough burst in WotLK you've got it made. Sustained damage has always been weak unless in the presence of MS. But then again burst + MS (like the ele shaman/arms warrior/hpala team) works well too.

This, pretty much.

But I guess it's the AJ-bandwaggon-syndrome. Someone states "lol ur not sposed to have dmgz cuz u gusy r support class noob" and most clueless people just jump on it and use this argument in any thread where the class gets discussed, without an ounce of understanding about what they are stating.

Also, people have no clue about how horrid mobility DK's have. Probably the worst of all melee.

Anyway, I think the disease protection buff was huge and it does certainly help against abominations like cleansing totem (yes, some shamans can admitt it). The problem with DK's are that they are balanced for PvP purely around the Unholy tree and blizzard insists on that. At the same time they insist to make it the highest DPS spec for PvE aswell. If Frost was the main Dps tree for PvE we would never have seen Scourge Strike getting redesigned 4 times within a month or two... it ended up being a huge nerf in PvP. It literally hits mail & plate like a wet noodle. A 41-talent ability that the entire tree is built around... it's disgustingly bad design.


Like I said, support class/utility class is an apologetic term for a shit class. It's basically the label you put on something underpowered when you don't want it buffed.
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#56 kkambanite

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:48 PM

ROFL waste every second GCD on coi and whine for a dmg buff.

But yes, dks should do more dmg on plate
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#57 Groundead

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 03:43 PM

ROFL waste every second GCD on coi and whine for a dmg buff.

But yes, dks should do more dmg on plate


I agree, make chains undispelable. Problem solved.
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#58 Deathlygnome

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:06 PM

considering that 5v5 is about mana above all else, where DKs can do the most damage as well as stop people from drinking with diseases always making people stand up across the map, it's a valid argument


Our diseases don't make people stand up anymore when drinking. Or if they do I haven't seen it in a long time. Besides if you got out of combat to go drink that abolish and that cleansing totem just powered through those diseases in seconds with no unholy blight.

ROFL waste every second GCD on coi and whine for a dmg buff.

But yes, dks should do more dmg on plate


We waste every rune on chains of ice because it's the only reason we're on that team.

I love when people try to compare our spread damage with a UA locks acting like they're even mildly similar.
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#59 Pitiless

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:13 PM

And you honestly expect people to reroll after possibly making DK's their new main and spending a lot of time and effort on it? No class is a utility class, no class is a support class. These are just apologetic terms people give to shit classes. Every class brings both damage and utility or healing and utility.


I said if you want to be a class with high burst to re-roll.

I don't know why you keep saying people think DKs should be nothing but a utility or support class. Where do people keep saying that? I never did, even though you quoted me and responded with that. DKs do high sustained damage and usually come out on top on damage at the end of the match if it lasts more than 2 minutes, and burst damage on classes less than plate isn't bad.


This, pretty much.
But I guess it's the AJ-bandwaggon-syndrome. Someone states "lol ur not sposed to have dmgz cuz u gusy r support class noob" and most clueless people just jump on it and use this argument in any thread where the class gets discussed, without an ounce of understanding about what they are stating.


Like one person in this thread has said that lol. Yeah what a huge bandwagon that is :rolleyes:

Also, people have no clue about how horrid mobility DK's have. Probably the worst of all melee.


Yeah, with death grip basically being a shadowstep and with chains of ice at ranged...I don't think so.
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#60 Deathlygnome

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 04:17 PM

I said if you want to be a class with high burst to re-roll.

I don't know why you keep saying people think DKs should be nothing but a utility or support class. Where do people keep saying that? I never did, even though you quoted me and responded with that. DKs do high sustained damage and usually come out on top on damage at the end of the match if it lasts more than 2 minutes, and burst damage on classes less than plate isn't bad.




Like one person in this thread has said that lol. Yeah what a huge bandwagon that is :rolleyes:



Yeah, with death grip basically being a shadowstep and with chains of ice at ranged...I don't think so.


You just made your own opinion invalid for us, thanks for saving us the effort.

We ARE the least mobile melee right now. What we do to slow other people has NOTHING to do with how much we can move. And when shadowstep is eaten by grounding, with a smaller range. Let me know.

It'd kinda be like saying 'Spriests mobility is fine, with imp fade and mind flay at ranged', only that imp fade actually does help them move.
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