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no dks in top 100?


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#21 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:49 AM

you still hit for 3k, and that was at the start of season 7, now you obviously hit for more with a ranged more or less spammable ability. For comparison mage needs to cast a full frostbolt for same damage, the one that gets interrupted in one of 4 ways you got to interrupt casts on very short cd (stun, mind freeze, dg, strangulate) + you have hero class survivability meaning only another hero class can kill you (which havent been introduced yet sadly). So quit your whining, you guys are too spoilt with season 5 experience.


Don't be so ignorant. Death coil is restricted heavily by resource cost, it has less than 10% chance to crit in PvP.

This is WotLK, burst lands kills. You take time to cast your frostbolt but it does more damage, has a far higher crit chance, barely any resource cost, is spammable without any setup (though obviously you have to be in a position to spam it without being interrupted) and don't forget mages have absolutely amazing CC and melee lockdown that no other class even comes close to.

If you cast sheep twice on a target, grats, you just did more lockdown than a DK can using a 10 second,25 second, 1 minute and 2 minute cooldown (i.e blowing every cd). And you can do it again after the 15 second DR timer runs out. If your team is nuking down a healer and you CS a cast followed by a deep freeze (or vice versa) which have a 24 and 30 second cooldown respectively, then grats you've done as much lockdown as a DK does on a healer thats being nuked. Mages have higher arena rep than DK's for a reason, your class is simply better in the current arena environment. There is no two ways about it.

And as a mage don't talk to me about survivability. For cloth yours is amazing. I play a warlock aswell, you guys really dont know how good you have it.

And this is just 3v3. You dominate us in 5v5 aswell.
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#22

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:51 AM

my mind blast only has 10% chance to crit in PvP buff shadow priest damage
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Believe it or not I'm a nice guy with a mild mannered personality. So no, i wouldn't "choke someone", even though my 6pack abs allow me to do that


#23 Lawdyx

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:54 AM

.

this dot expresses my feelings towards the OP
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#24 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:56 AM

my mind blast only has 10% chance to crit in PvP buff shadow priest damage


Invalid comparison is invalid. Does mind blast do the majority of your damage in PvE? Is it a nuke you do not have baseline and must spend 41 talent points in order to reach? No and no. SW:P, devouring plague and vampiric touch are your main damage abilities in both, while mind flay in PvE beats mind flay in PvP for obvious reasons.

And you know very well shadow priest pressure is fantastic, especially when under the effects of bloodlust/heroism. Why even post that?
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#25 brownieownz

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:56 AM

Interesting post aye chap
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"Shamans need a fucking rocketship that they can hop into in combat and fly into space to up their survivability"

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 10:59 AM

Invalid comparison is invalid.


lol hardly

I can't believe you think DKs need a damage buff or any buffs at all after the most recent patch
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Believe it or not I'm a nice guy with a mild mannered personality. So no, i wouldn't "choke someone", even though my 6pack abs allow me to do that


#27 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:05 AM

lol hardly

I can't believe you think DKs need a damage buff or any buffs at all after the most recent patch


Really? Its not hard. SS at the moment still hits for too little on plate/mail with a shield, and we obviously wouldn't want it buffed against cloth for balance reasons.

This would require the shadow version of scourge strike to come back, which would make us hit for less on cloth and more on plate. There's nothing wrong with that. Obliterate should have been kept for PvE anyway.

About the mind blast thing, it also hits and crits harder than SS and requires no setup either (well except for 5 stacks of shadow weaving on yourself, but thats a given. Also applies a 20% healing debuff. So yeah, pretty invalid comparison.
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#28 Lawdyx

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:05 AM

lol hardly

I can't believe you think DKs need a damage buff or any buffs at all after the most recent patch


we dont need buffs we need changes
all our abilities are awfully designed, their scaling is complete shit and our dmg is WAY misplaced
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#29 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:08 AM

we dont need buffs we need changes
all our abilities are awfully designed, their scaling is complete shit and our dmg is WAY misplaced


Exactly what i've meant. By misplaced he means that we end up getting massive scores at the end of an arena match due to the stupid way our spread damage works. This is very nearly useless, focused damage is what gets you kills.

Im pretty sure every arena dk would be happy to see a reduction in disease damage for a boost in single target damage.
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#30 lysia

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:15 AM

if dk's want more single target dmg, they should be a more viable target aswell, atm it's almost impossible to kill a good dk with a brain. Ams/icebound/chains spam/amz/pet sacrefice etc etc. get rid of ams it's 5 sec magic bubble on 45 sec cd. pretty retarted if you ask me.

over and out.
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#31 Lolflay

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:23 AM

DKs don't need damage buffs, what you're on is getting chewed slowly but steadly, your job is to make sure you pick up a comp which rewards high passive damage which utilizes no burst as a thing to land the kill.

All DK comps work like this nowadays, why fight the class design ?
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#32 lermont

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:27 AM

Really? Its not hard. SS at the moment still hits for too little on plate/mail with a shield, and we obviously wouldn't want it buffed against cloth for balance reasons.

This would require the shadow version of scourge strike to come back, which would make us hit for less on cloth and more on plate. There's nothing wrong with that. Obliterate should have been kept for PvE anyway.

About the mind blast thing, it also hits and crits harder than SS and requires no setup either (well except for 5 stacks of shadow weaving on yourself, but thats a given. Also applies a 20% healing debuff. So yeah, pretty invalid comparison.


do you realise if they make ss as full shadow damage it will impact clothies just as much as plate armor? Atm all cloth classes have at least 5k armor, giving your ss shadow-only damage will make you hit clothies for approximately 15% more damage.

And its the stupid design of dks that blizzard is stuck into. Too much survivability simply doesnt allow for good burst or cc, or we are back into s5.
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#33 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:30 AM

if dk's want more single target dmg, they should be a more viable target aswell, atm it's almost impossible to kill a good dk with a brain. Ams/icebound/chains spam/amz/pet sacrefice etc etc. get rid of ams it's 5 sec magic bubble on 45 sec cd. pretty retarted if you ask me.

over and out.


I beg to differ. It actually completely depends on the comp the DK is playing in that decides whether he is a viable target or not.

For example when I played shadowcleave on my warlock we peeled people off the druid so well, and off my lock (have portal also ofc) that the most viable targets for many teams was in fact our DK. Shadowpriest/rogue/rshaman, RMP and wizard cleaves had far greater success killing our death knight (even with perfectly rotated cooldowns) than the rest of us.

To be honest only melee pain-trains like TSG and rpala/war (or hunter) rdruid stuck to my lock or our druid.

Now since 3.3.3 and the warrior revenge change I have a feeling people will tunnel the DK far more in TSG (this was a strategy that worked well for my TSG last season anyway) because warriors will do considerably more damage when focused by melee now than ever before.

Honestly seeing all the DK opposition I think that due to the comps we play in. You're worried that if DK's ever do get threatening damage then you wont know what to do vs things like PHD.
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#34 Lawdyx

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:30 AM

DKs don't need damage buffs, what you're on is getting chewed slowly but steadly, your job is to make sure you pick up a comp which rewards high passive damage which utilizes no burst as a thing to land the kill.

All DK comps work like this nowadays, why fight the class design ?


who said it's a supporter class? does it say so in the wotlk manual or on the blizzard homepage or where do people get this bullshit from? just cause dks can use chains and grip they are automatically a supporter class?
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#35 stazzy

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:32 AM

do you realise if they make ss as full shadow damage it will impact clothies just as much as plate armor? Atm all cloth classes have at least 5k armor, giving your ss shadow-only damage will make you hit clothies for approximately 15% more damage.

And its the stupid design of dks that blizzard is stuck into. Too much survivability simply doesnt allow for good burst or cc, or we are back into s5.


our dmg is fine on clothies, maybe abit too strong but nothing overboard, its vs plate we need help.
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#36 stazzy

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:34 AM

whats ironic is that most people said we were fine pre 3.3.3.
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#37 Schmeiser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:35 AM

our dmg is fine on clothies, maybe abit too strong but nothing overboard, its vs plate we need help.


And how do u propose to change that without it being as op as fuck on clothies?
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[16:09] maajty: wlp was the strongest setup
[16:09] maajty: after lsd

RPS 2.2k hero talking about s8

#38 Feya

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:38 AM

do you realise if they make ss as full shadow damage it will impact clothies just as much as plate armor? Atm all cloth classes have at least 5k armor, giving your ss shadow-only damage will make you hit clothies for approximately 15% more damage.

And its the stupid design of dks that blizzard is stuck into. Too much survivability simply doesnt allow for good burst or cc, or we are back into s5.


The amount will hit cloth and plate for a similar number yes, but our damage vs cloth (compared to the current SS) will actually go down. Its all about weapon scaling on the strike itself vs different armoured targets. The 3.2 scourge strike (which most of us want back) crit for about 4.5-5k back in late season 7 before 3.3 came out.

Given that there has been a resilience buff since then, but also weapons have scaled up, we'd be critting about 5.5kish on mages (considerably less due to partial resists if you're running with a priest plus mage armour), less on warlocks and quite a bit less on priests due to talents like spell warding and shadowform for sp's. This is all considerably less on cloth, but the damage boost would be 2k more on 2h plate (rets/warriors/other dks) and as much as 3k more on 1hr and shield mail/plate (resto/ele/holy).

We're just asking for consistancy since we're being refused straight out more damage ("we think death knight damage is fine in PvP") and refused any kind of minor mortal strike effect. We do kinda need more comps to play in, you have to admit.

Edit: Elene, in season 6 when SS hit a lot harder but people survived it with disease cleansing and the fact we had no mortal strike, people said we were fine. They only said frost was OP which we could all agree with and it did need to be nerfed (well, really only the sigil needed the frost strike portion removed). Then SS got nerfed to hit about 25% less (-8% from SS itself, -10/12% from the new resilience buff, -5% from desolation not being on desecration anymore) then people once again said "DK's are fine".

Our reputation plummetted, gnaw got nerfed to double its cooldown and SS got nerfed _again_ to be the current version in 3.3. Once again people said "DK's are fine". Now we finally got a buff in our long list of nerfs and now we are "more than fine". Can you spot the pattern? We're fine as long as we suck. Such is the legacy of season 5.
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#39 Lawdyx

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:38 AM

And how do u propose to change that without it being as op as fuck on clothies?


make it shadow?
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#40 Schmeiser

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 11:43 AM

Wow lawdy calm down the rage :P I was just wondering hihi, i dont give a shit if u hit for plate the same as cloth just if u dont hit cloth for huge numbers, i dont need tsg or phd to rape clothies even harder
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[16:09] maajty: wlp was the strongest setup
[16:09] maajty: after lsd

RPS 2.2k hero talking about s8




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