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DK Diseases Undispellable


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#41 Skétch1296677762

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 06:18 PM

1 less thing to keybind now
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#42 Turgurr

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 07:44 PM

Calpurnia pmuch said everything that needed to be said, this was definatly a needed change.

Its also pretty obvious how out of touch sky is with this game now, really you shouldnt even be allowed to post here anymore. Those were some of the worst ideas for dk diseases I have ever heard.
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#43 Voxvicious

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 07:45 PM

phd godmode, dont know hwo to lose as this setup
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#44 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:04 PM

Calpurnia pmuch said everything that needed to be said, this was definatly a needed change.

Its also pretty obvious how out of touch sky is with this game now, really you shouldnt even be allowed to post here anymore. Those were some of the worst ideas for dk diseases I have ever heard.


Good to see you missed the ENTIRE point (that there are other ways than just nullifying abilities). However, retooling abolish disease and cleansing totem would be far better than just allowing diseases to stay on no matter what. Also annoying that it's just another blanket statement + insult with no breakdown of what's wrong with what.
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#45 Zrahni

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 09:58 PM

Deatknights still do low dmg but we will actually do something against shaman teams :o
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#46 nawty

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 10:17 PM

It's not the change itself, it's the concept of allowing a class to completely protect their dots vs dispells which will cause quite alot of uproar amongst the ones that can't.

DK's dont have alot of burst no, but they do have alot of spread dmg - that might get out of control if it can't be negotiated with via dispells, this is just a assumption that might be completely wrong. But if you think of comps like shadowcleave - the more uptime of dk diseases the more healing the other healer has to, the faster he goes oom. It's not a major buff, but it be a very annoying change to negotiate.


well yeah but almost no dk will bother to keep unholy blight on offtargets where they spread their diseases. I can't think of any scenario where I´d waste my only burst on putting deathcoil on offtargets for no reason other than to keep diseases up?
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#47 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 25 February 2010 - 10:54 PM

Point is no one really complains about Paladins cleansing diseases so I don't see the big deal in retooling abolish to just make it cure disease. However, the bigger point is there has to be a work around besides just making them stick NO MATTER WHAT.

Are you saying it would take forever for two auto attacks to stack diseases to a max stack of 4? (2 applications per swing, 4 applications max = 2 auto attacks). Shrug.

Really the big thing is I'm annoyed they're nullifying an ability when making it more like a paladin's version would be better, at least in my mind.
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I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes



I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.


i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day


#48 Azark

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 12:03 AM

Great change finally some good stuff blizz! dk's needed this one
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#49 Fierss

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 12:31 AM

abolish disease/poison and cleansing totem are pretty mindless. Not disagreeing with you necessarily. However I don't know (or care to think of) a logical middle ground for protection. Just flat 50% resist is stupid cuz all we need is more RNG in this game.


It's not that mindless when you can barely spare the 1 global half the time, if you even have a gap in the stuns and silences :P

The change itself is a decent one, I just don't like where that leaves the whole package. And, I'd much rather them just make abolish disease and cleansing totem not remove diseases in the arena, so I could still cast cleanse disease if I need.
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#50 Fierss

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 12:49 AM

I don't see how you can worry about being kited with chains desecration, grip, and ghoul stun. DKs have it better than any melee has ever had it when it comes to staying on their target. If you're peeled long enough for your football field of necrosis to fall off, and can't get back on your target by making them run at 10% speed, gripping them, or stunning them, the other team has earned a bit of breathing room :P
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#51 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:36 AM

1. What becomes of Icy Touch and Plague Strike with these stacking auto-applied diseases? Those are keynote abilities of the class that lead up to Scourge Strike in the Unholy tree.

2. There is already a significant ramp up time associated with the Unholy PvE rotation, you're suggesting to add more to this? You may not see it as such, but every second matters when you're trying to perform to the max in any progression guild.

3. Lastly, stacking diseases are never going to happen. They're not Rogues and auto-application of diseases just don't fit the lore associated with Death Knights.



And what of Cleansing Totem?

They're not "nullifying" the ability, use it on your teammates that have been caught in a Pestilence.


1) Why would Scourge Strike and Icy Touch suddenly stop doing damage just because the disease modifier has been put on white hits vs their special attacks? That doesn't even matter, at all.

2) Don't think diseases being applied on auto attacks is going to hurt that much when PvE has become so watered down and easy compared to what it once was.

3) A lot of things in this game have deviated from the original lore. Moreover, lore shouldn't dictate game mechanics. Game mechanics should dictate lore.

It's just retarded in every single way considering a lot of other classes have to deal with dispel/cleanses when it comes to boosting their attack damage. Ranged classes have to deal with that shit all the time, on top of already dealing with LoS issues. Immolate, frost nova, shadow word: pain, etc etc.

Lastly, the rate at which feral druids keep up their disease is absolutely ridiculous, and I'm not saying increasing attack speed for faster application of diseases is the way to go, but it's something to keep in mind coupled with the previous paragraph.

It doesn't have to be a rework of abolish disease then if you don't find it as bad to play against. Make cleansing totem just poison cleansing totem and have shamans manually cast a cure disease to rid themselves/teammates of them. Making totems/abilities become less useful and just making disease stack no matter what is a cop out. Rework the issues with the problems at hand by reworking those spells, not just overriding them with a more powerful DK ability.

I don't see how you can worry about being kited with chains desecration, grip, and ghoul stun. DKs have it better than any melee has ever had it when it comes to staying on their target. If you're peeled long enough for your football field of necrosis to fall off, and can't get back on your target by making them run at 10% speed, gripping them, or stunning them, the other team has earned a bit of breathing room


Agreed there.
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I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes



I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.


i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day


#52 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:37 AM

Not necessarily agreeing that this is the best change


And that's the whole point that people seem to keep overlooking with my posts. I'm not saying the ideas that I've come with are necessarily the best, but what they're doing now is just a lazy fix. There have to be work arounds.
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I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes



I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.


i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day


#53 Effy

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 01:42 AM

I don't know if you remember but in s5/pre-3.2 abolish disease used to tick once every 5secs, instead of 3. I remember it being far worse back then (especially because of the state of DK's) and less reliable than it is now. Changing it back to how it was, wouldn't be a bad thing either.

I don't mind the change thats on the PTR though. Something had to be done.
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#54 mcjagger1

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 02:02 AM

*DKs got buffed.
*Check DK forums

WHINE --- We need more buffs than that!

*Facepalm time
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#55 Gunnolf

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 02:29 AM

Maybe it's a bit of jealousy because vt is supposed to be our protection but is spam dispelled all the time.

You said before that you're against automated disease dispels, and that there should be some choice made by the player. I think most of us still want to be able to dispel diseases if we make that choice.

Also because of this, cleansing totem doesn't get nerfed and spriests cant use dp against shaman teams which makes me rage. That totem is so fucking annoying because every time the shaman lays 4 totems down, he puts cleansing down too.
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#56 Mackabre

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:17 AM

It's weird to tweak cleansing totem now since it affects diseases and poisons. When they nerfed it so it doesn't tick on initial put down, it actually buffed rogues more than dk's from my point of view.
I don't see them retooling cleansing totem anytime soon.
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#57 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 03:49 AM

1. I didn't say Scourge Strike (typo I presume? ;)), I specifically said Plague Strike and IT would become useless with diseases being applied by auto-attacks. They would be completely taken out of the rotation since diseases would be automatically applied. Their damage isn't really enough to keep them included in any PvE rotation (which is where the stacking disease issue comes in). That's nullifying two abilities right there. :(

2. Normal modes are watered down, but certain hardmode bosses are just as difficult as some TBC encounters. Anub in ToGC 25 is a good example of a boss that had a rather high difficulty level when people were wearing that tier of gear (the bosses before weren't, though). I don't know anything about ICC since I stopped raiding just after the patch was released, but I'm pretty sure hardmode LK is no joke. I really don't like the idea of stacking diseases, but that's just me personally. I log on my DK maybe once a week to WG for gems, so I might be behind with the times.

However, you do have a point with how watered down PvE has become. I remember the days of wiping for four weeks on pre-nerf-nerf Kael, and my guild wiped to Twins (Sunwell) for five weeks once they were released. :mad:

3. That's something for you to work out with the designers. :)

I think they needed to do something though.


1) Ok, good point.

2) Suppose hard modes actually make it more challenging than the regular versions. I'm not to accustomed with PvE, is there better loot for hardmodes? Kinda off-topic but just curious really.

3) Yea, but we know how that'd go.

That's correct, but there's also no "Abolish Magic", nor is there a "Magic Cleansing Totem". You can't really compare magic to diseases because of the lack of automation involved with fire-and-forget cleansing abilities. Let's take this question though, is any class (besides Destruction Warlocks, maybe) penalized as hard as DKs by cleansing? You have to keep in mind that DK single target damage isn't really that high, and the classes that are penalized by magic dispels still aren't exactly hurting in the damage department at the moment.


That's the thing. That's why I wish instead of making diseases just stick no matter what, they'd make abolish disease work like dispel magic. No "set and forget" type mechanic, something that you have to manually do. Same for the totem, prefer it just go back to poison cleansing and giving Shamans something like Cure Disease. I think if people saw Priest's/Shaman's disease curing abilities on par with Paladins, this DK change wouldn't even need to happen. As I said before, I don't think too many people have issues with Paladin's manually cleansing one disease at a time. I think redoing Abolish Disease and Cleansing Totem is the way to go, but yea I doubt they'd listen to me on this one.

Regardless of anything, you seem to be the only one that gets the point that I'd prefer Blizzard to try to come up with a more creative way to have the DK disease system work while still giving healers the option of removing them. Moreover, thanks for actually breaking down the arguments point by point rather than a retarded blanket statement like "heh nope wont work [email protected]".
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I used to beat off alot, and fail all my classes



I figured he's a phony but I was secretly hoping to get pounded by someone famous.


i wasnt aware that america was a country

i guess we learn things every day


#58 Mackabre

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 04:09 AM

I don't post much, but I try to be constructive when I do. ;)


Thanks for being constructive. :)
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#59 Calx

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 04:42 AM

i'd trade them VT's dispel protection system for what they get

since they're supposedly so jealous of VT's dispel prot effect
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#60 jrhowson

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Posted 26 February 2010 - 06:36 AM

i'd trade them VT's dispel protection system for what they get

since they're supposedly so jealous of VT's dispel prot effect


Sure but then again Shadow Priests actually do very sick burst and dots tick for way higher get affected by haste/crit too..

I'd actually prefer some kind of UA/VT type effect compared to what they are doing now, however how do you balance that with cleansing totem?
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