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3.3.3 Rogue Changes (Sub. Buffs)


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#21 Laserfeet

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 11:49 PM

it's sad that you're still going to have to use cripple with this spec even with the waylay change, I don't see my self going wound wound or wound deadly and using a 45 energy ability to snare, with a resource system like energy it doesn't make any sense to not have our snares be applied passively... definitely will try a SD Dagger spec again with this change but i think the bigger news is ghostly strike being a worthy talent point in a mutilate build
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#22 mschultz32

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:02 AM

Its still going to suck.
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#23 Bleikfeiten

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:06 AM

Man up and let's see some proper ARP shd rogues ^^
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#24 Popsycle

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:08 AM

so would Main Hand (Sword, Axe ect) and off hand shiv (dagger) give the dmng buff? Or do they both have to be daggers.
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#25 Synexus

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:08 AM

Man up and let's see some proper ARP shd rogues ^^

Agil will always be better than arp for rogues since you get more combo points when you crit; however, it is a good secondary stat to get. Agil>ARP>Crit>>>>>>>>>>Haste
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#26 maarko

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:12 AM

these changes make the tree even more bloated, you are going to have to put 55+ points into sub to make use of these changes.
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#27 Ashe

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:18 AM

Actually if they decide to man up and make the Wayway proc 100% from backstab, you might see yourself using deadly/wound while using backstab to apply a unremovable snare.

Spamming hemo for damage, backstab for snare deffo sounds really plausible, while using double wound or deadly/wound. All depends how Blizzard ends up doing it though.


Waylay procing 70% undispellable snare would be pretty sick.

I don't see the benefit of DP in MH, but offhand with 1.4 speed for faster procs (1.4oh DP proc isn't normalized like WP) + magical dot dmg might be nice.

Something like this for DP spec: 20/0/51
And this for double WP: 18/0/53.

Although anyone who's played sub recently, how's HAT in PvP in it's nerfed form?

Also, I'm not sure if Hemo is worth it / viable, because even at 165% dmg, it has lower crit (+15% crit with Puncturing Wounds) and dmg (195% dmg on Backstab with Opportunity + Sinister Calling) compared to Backstab + No slow refresh.
The only advantage is cheaper cost & debuff.
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#28 Magus

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:39 AM

if they move deadly brew down a tier it'd be tempting but these current changes wont outdo the utility of envenom me thinks. It will still be easier to get away from a shs rogue than a muti rogue if the other team has a shaman, druid or paladin via psn cleanse.
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#29 Touché1296682727

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:41 AM

can't wait to try 100% arp sub rogue on the ptr.


*hopes they have ICC items*
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#30 Meyy

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 12:47 AM

Could be fun for 5s at least.
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#31 assitoni

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 01:04 AM

c
r
a
p

no one will play this sh1t and stand behind the enemie to attack
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#32 jinsk

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 01:15 AM

from a noob pov this aint enough to get rogues off envenom, deadly brew and envenom is just too good, i guess they want to start these buffs for an hybrid spec in cata?
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#33 Ashe

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 01:37 AM

if they move deadly brew down a tier it'd be tempting but these current changes wont outdo the utility of envenom me thinks. It will still be easier to get away from a shs rogue than a muti rogue if the other team has a shaman, druid or paladin via psn cleanse.


Waylay slow is Physical. With 60%+ crit on Backstab it shouldn't be too unreliable.

Sub would still be somewhat inferior vs Plate teams but the return of the ability to Focus ShS Kick healers is quite nice.


Either way it's a good step towards making Sub viable.
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#34 Dxm

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 02:32 AM

this spec will be godlike with a feral druid, i hesitate to mention this fact here.

Rupture: The damage-over-time component of this ability can now produce critical strikes. +30% blood spatter +30% serrated blades + 30% mangle

90% higher rupture damage, not to mention it scales with sub's much higher AP.

feral druid has very high crit and attack speed, so HAT procs often and hemo charges get eaten up very quickly.

glyph for tott, so with filthy tricks you've got a 20s cooldown for a 10s uptime, your druid has +15% damage 50% of the time, scaling with his self +damage buff...

also sdance burst + feral burst, i'm not looking forward to trying to defend a priest against this shit
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#35 Ashe

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 03:02 AM

Infected Wounds is a good fallback as well for times when Waylay slow won't be up.

But are you certain Savage Roar still stacks with Tricks, they changed Hysteria / Avenging Wrath / Death Wish, etc to not stack, and although it's not listed, I'd assume Savage Roar would fall under the same "rule".

I'll see if I can test it tomorrow.
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#36 trickylol

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 03:08 AM

this spec will be godlike with a feral druid, i hesitate to mention this fact here.

Rupture: The damage-over-time component of this ability can now produce critical strikes. +30% blood spatter +30% serrated blades + 30% mangle

90% higher rupture damage, not to mention it scales with sub's much higher AP.

feral druid has very high crit and attack speed, so HAT procs often and hemo charges get eaten up very quickly.

glyph for tott, so with filthy tricks you've got a 20s cooldown for a 10s uptime, your druid has +15% damage 50% of the time, scaling with his self +damage buff...

also sdance burst + feral burst, i'm not looking forward to trying to defend a priest against this shit


afaik they don't stack, and if they do it's multiplicative.
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#37 Corre

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 03:14 AM

this spec will be godlike with a feral druid, i hesitate to mention this fact here.

Rupture: The damage-over-time component of this ability can now produce critical strikes. +30% blood spatter +30% serrated blades + 30% mangle

90% higher rupture damage, not to mention it scales with sub's much higher AP.

feral druid has very high crit and attack speed, so HAT procs often and hemo charges get eaten up very quickly.

glyph for tott, so with filthy tricks you've got a 20s cooldown for a 10s uptime, your druid has +15% damage 50% of the time, scaling with his self +damage buff...

also sdance burst + feral burst, i'm not looking forward to trying to defend a priest against this shit


Could probably drop crippling poison altogether with a feral druid meaning you have a lot more poison damage. Double wound would probably yield the most damage.
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#38 Wckedz

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 03:18 AM

why would u ever use deadly poison without master poisoner
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#39 Mik._.

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 04:29 AM

Blizzard is such a tease.
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#40 Dxm

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 04:38 AM

afaik they don't stack, and if they do it's multiplicative.


if they don't, then those talents need some review :\

why have two talents that do the same thing in two different trees? esp. if they don't stack with the mangle/trauma raid buff
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