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Earth shield becoming useless?


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#1 Shieldman

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 06:54 PM

It gets dispellde all the time. In 2.3 5/9 classes will be able to remove it. In 2v2, theres like a 75% chance a class will be able to remove your earth shield (or somewhere around 75%). I'm worried going this high up to resto might not be worth it anymore. I considered respeccing, but enhancment sucks (it sucks, also it sucks) and they are nerfing elemental. Also elemental is only good for 5v5 which I never do. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of 21/0/40, or something.
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#2 Bustuarii

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 07:15 PM

Even with the changes, I doubt you'll see much hunters in 2.3, so you most likely won't have to worry much about their arcane shots. Shadow priests cannot cleanse, and mass dispel is too mana inefficient to constantly use.
If you go up against other shamans, then you can of course purge them as well, so that's fair.
Mages' spell steal is also too mana inefficient; particularly since they cannot guarantee that they will steal your earth shield. I know I put detect invisibility and underwater breathing on all my allies before every match just to give them a little protection against dispel.

I don't believe there is a 5th class that can remove earth shield, so I'm not sure what you were thinking there (druid can only remove poisons & curses).

All-in-all, the only legitimate worry is verse priests & fellow shamans, so it's not as bad as it seems.
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#3 Sylvar

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:17 PM

I usually just put earthshield on my mate's pet and watershield on myself.
5th class is Felhunter btw.
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#4 Blessox

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 08:26 PM

Shadow priests cannot cleanse,


Priest can dispell in shadowform, somehow its not counted as a holy trick. Some stuff about school and disi being a subform of holy bla bla bla, but they can disp :)
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#5 Shieldman

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 09:04 PM

Even with the changes, I doubt you'll see much hunters in 2.3, so you most likely won't have to worry much about their arcane shots. Shadow priests cannot cleanse, and mass dispel is too mana inefficient to constantly use.
If you go up against other shamans, then you can of course purge them as well, so that's fair.
Mages' spell steal is also too mana inefficient; particularly since they cannot guarantee that they will steal your earth shield. I know I put detect invisibility and underwater breathing on all my allies before every match just to give them a little protection against dispel.

I don't believe there is a 5th class that can remove earth shield, so I'm not sure what you were thinking there (druid can only remove poisons & curses).

All-in-all, the only legitimate worry is verse priests & fellow shamans, so it's not as bad as it seems.


No.
First of all, the changes hunters are getting in 2.3 are more than just what you saw in the forums. They are getting a lot more. This is class number 1. Class number 2= warlocks with felhunter. Class number 3= shamans. Class number 4= Mages (I only have 2 buffs, bloodlust and earth shield both are very good to steal and cost more mana than spellsteal so go figure). Number 5? priests. Dispell CAN be used in shadowform, most priests are too stupid to utilize it.

EDIT: I must stress out that in 2v2 I'm with a warrior, and I only have two buffs. If Im fighting a class thats capable of dispelling more often than not they will steal it. I dont have to worry though. Its pretty common to find teams without warlocks/priests. Right? =/
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#6 Bustuarii

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 11:16 PM

I usually just put earthshield on my mate's pet and watershield on myself.
5th class is Felhunter btw.


Oh, I play a lock, and I didn't even think of that! It's on an 8 sec cool down, and earth shield has no cool down. My pet's devour magic is pretty much always on cool down anyway, so it's not like he can really offensively dispel earth shield whenever he wants.
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#7 Bustuarii

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 11:35 PM

No.
First of all, the changes hunters are getting in 2.3 are more than just what you saw in the forums. They are getting a lot more. This is class number 1.


I know, but still, Blizzard is careful w/ their buffs; even w/ the changes, I doubt we'll see hunters much in arenas. Possibly in 5v5 arenas, but very unlikely in 2v2 arenas.

Class number 2= warlocks with felhunter.

Yeah, I have a felhunter; 8-sec cooldown; enough said ^^

Class number 3= shamans.

You want your own class nerfed now?

Class number 4= Mages (I only have 2 buffs, bloodlust and earth shield both are very good to steal and cost more mana than spellsteal so go figure).

I don't remember the last time I saw a mage in 2's; they are too rare for it to be a concern.

Number 5? priests. Dispell CAN be used in shadowform, most priests are too stupid to utilize it.

My bad ^^ You are correct about that. Priests are definitely the one strong counter to earth shield, but everything has a counter ^^
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#8 nub0rn

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Posted 07 October 2007 - 11:39 PM

you warlocks ever looked up earth shield mana cost? o_O if the shaman keeps recasting earthshield every 8s he'd be oom in no time.
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#9 Shieldman

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:31 AM

Oh, I play a lock, and I didn't even think of that! It's on an 8 sec cool down, and earth shield has no cool down. My pet's devour magic is pretty much always on cool down anyway, so it's not like he can really offensively dispel earth shield whenever he wants.


Earth shield costs 900 mana... I'm not going to recast it every time your pet removes it. Its 900 mana every 8 seconds for me+all the other mana expensive stuff I have to cast.

You want your own class nerfed now?

No, I want equal conditions like other casters. Priests 41 talent has 60% resistance to dispell, along with giving him 60% resistance to every other spell being dispeled. This is 60%+5%= 65%! Druids lifebloom gets purged, only 2/3 stacks get removed the final stack is still there. Oh, and if you remove ti you basicaly give a great heal to the target. Whats the downside to removing earth shield? Any purge/dispell/spellsteal/devour magic/arcane shot costs LESS than eearh shield. If you make earth shield a PROPER stackble aura (meaning 1 buff gets removed per dispell instead of all 10 charges at once) then it would be fair.
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#10 buena

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:48 AM

Comparison to pain suppression isn't really fair since it has a 3 min cooldown. But the idea of making dispell hit the charges seems fair.

Wait until we see how godly 700 spelldamage resto shamans become in 2.3 before we give them any more buffs tho.
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#11 Sylvar

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:03 AM

Earthshield is NOT useless, Hunters ARE viable in 2v2, And you CAN buff yourself with waterwalk/breathing to absorb it. Though it costs too many reagents >.>
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#12 Wonder

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:05 AM

1) A Shaman complaining about offensive dispels shows me that there is still some form of divine justice in this world.

2) Priests get 65% dispel resistance for 8 seconds every 3 minutes.

3) Lifebloom has to be stacked up to 3. It'd make sense for Earth Shield to only lose charges to offensive dispel if you had to cast it 10 times to max it out.

4) Technically, Rogues, Paladins, and Druids are the only classes without an offensive magic dispel.
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#13 Dimachaeri

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:13 AM

3) Lifebloom has to be stacked up to 3.


I was told a dispel removes all three, but gives you the final boom of one.
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#14 Shieldman

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:29 AM

1) A Shaman complaining about offensive dispels shows me that there is still some form of divine justice in this world.

2) Priests get 65% dispel resistance for 8 seconds every 3 minutes.

3) Lifebloom has to be stacked up to 3. It'd make sense for Earth Shield to only lose charges to offensive dispel if you had to cast it 10 times to max it out.

4) Technically, Rogues, Paladins, and Druids are the only classes without an offensive magic dispel.


1. Offensive dispelling is fair to other healers who have forms to negate it.

2. The fact pain suppression is on a cooldown and earth shield is not is the reason pain suppression is so much stronger than earth shield. But it doesn't change the fact that against a dispeller team earth shield is active 0% of the time where's at least with pain suppression you get some grace time where your buffs dont get removed.

3. If you purge lifebloom at 1-2 stacks you're just healing the target, hence the drawback of removing it. There is no drawback/difficulty in removing earth shield.

Oh, and lifebloom costs less than 1/4 of the mana earth shield costs.

4. Prot warriors don't play arena. Oh, and rogues pair up with priests a lot (who can dispell), paladins/druids pair up with locks and they can dispell. Like I said, more often than not earth shield doesn't work.
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#15 Shieldman

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:29 AM

I was told a dispel removes all three, but gives you the final boom of one.


You were told wrong.
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#16 Shieldman

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:32 AM

Earthshield is NOT useless, Hunters ARE viable in 2v2, And you CAN buff yourself with waterwalk/breathing to absorb it. Though it costs too many reagents >.>


That would work assuming my enemies could only purge once. They can do it a bit more often though. Water walking gets removed on damage. So even with a 8 second cooldown on devour magic you still have a 50% chance of removing it on the first try. Then a 100% chance.
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#17 Sylvar

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 07:59 AM

That would work assuming my enemies could only purge once. They can do it a bit more often though. Water walking gets removed on damage. So even with a 8 second cooldown on devour magic you still have a 50% chance of removing it on the first try. Then a 100% chance.


Seriously I didn't think about waterwalking being removed in combat 0.o, aplogies. And You can reaply water breathing though.

I earthshield my partner vs locks, and watershield myself. If for some reason the felpuppy is send to my partner,instead of me, it's obvious we win the fight.

Against mages; Mages run double dps, if they steal they burn a global cooldown, making it easier for you to survive their starting burst.

Priest: Lol check my 2v2 partner, priests are no issue for me.

Other shaman: Fair game.

Seriously, earthshield is fine, and not your only defence. Luckely for us, we can cast it on others as well.
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#18 Shieldman

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 03:53 PM

Thats not the point. My point is I spent 41 talents on earth shield and its useless 90% of the time. Also, rebuffing water breathing doesn't work as my GCD is way too important to waste.
Look at other healer's 41's (in healing)

Paladin: if its used while in bubble it cannot be removed, and normally the bubble itself cannot be removed (1 class out of 9 can do it, fair game).

Druids: 1 class can banish you, you're immune to sheep/sap. Again, ONE class gains an advantage over you.

Priests: 65% chance to resist dispells on all your buffs+65% damage reduction/lightwell cannot be removed (the well itself, not its effect)

Shamans: 5/9 remove earth shield. No drawback.

See what I mean here? There is no drawback/difficulty in removing earth shield, and we have no way to counter it.
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#19 nub0rn

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 04:27 PM

Thats not the point. My point is I spent 41 talents on earth shield and its useless 90% of the time. Also, rebuffing water breathing doesn't work as my GCD is way too important to waste.
Look at other healer's 41's (in healing)

Paladin: if its used while in bubble it cannot be removed, and normally the bubble itself cannot be removed (1 class out of 9 can do it, fair game).

Druids: 1 class can banish you, you're immune to sheep/sap. Again, ONE class gains an advantage over you.

Priests: 65% chance to resist dispells on all your buffs+65% damage reduction/lightwell cannot be removed (the well itself, not its effect)

Shamans: 5/9 remove earth shield. No drawback.

See what I mean here? There is no drawback/difficulty in removing earth shield, and we have no way to counter it.


actually holy ultimate is circle of lol, not lolwell.
You CAN recast earth shield after all and its just incredible strong if not dispelled. as opposed to the 8s pain supression on a clothy with NO ADDITIONAL DEFENSE. That means NO shield, NO mail, NO natures guardian. pain supression is selfcast only so if you're going to compare these two bear that in mind...

oh and i'd take earth shield over circle of healing anytime.
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#20 Shieldman

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 10:27 PM

actually holy ultimate is circle of lol, not lolwell.
You CAN recast earth shield after all and its just incredible strong if not dispelled. as opposed to the 8s pain supression on a clothy with NO ADDITIONAL DEFENSE. That means NO shield, NO mail, NO natures guardian. pain supression is selfcast only so if you're going to compare these two bear that in mind...

oh and i'd take earth shield over circle of healing anytime.


My bad, mixed up those two abilities. It doesn't change what I said though, 31 point soulwell is unremovable where's 31 point mana tide totem can be 1 shotted by a lvl 1 mage stave before its had time to proc once (you got full 3 seconds to do this which is enough for double GCD). As for priests not having no additional defense what the hell are you on about? You have prayer of mending/renew/PW:shield/blessed resilience/15% resistance to stuns (orc racial :D) and fear. But fear isnt that common in pvp anyway right/recover health when getting crit/extra armor from inner fire. No defenses?

And yes, I know a lot of those abilities are subject to being dispelled, but at least during pain suppression you're very hard to dispell, where's with earth shield its subject to dispell 100% of the time. And against teams that cant dispell? You have the same advantages as me.

One last thing: While a lot of your defenses are vulnerable to purge, 60% of my tricks can be negated by EVERY CLASS by simply walking up to my totem and whacking it. Not 5/9, but 9/9. So yeah, when I invest 41 talents into a buff I'd expect to be able to use it from time to time.
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