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Warlock 3.3 Specs


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#21 JaK91

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:51 PM

i can see how i can work it out as to i wont be stuck there on a gcd not able to dispel. i guess il just have to give it a try and see for myself.

and with the shadows embrace change i guess its worth it to not just spec into it at all. only reason i can think of is an extra debuff but we have ua as it is. we just need the season to start so we can see how effective this spec really is.
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#22 Elisha

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:56 PM

the question is...do you use your pet to improve your damage or do you stick it on healer/caster to ensure that it be able to counter or avoid trinking.
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#23 betruger

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:41 PM

I went a spec similar to this when they changed the talents around and added the glyph.

Pros:
> darkpact is great if you can remember to use it, your pet will not sustain more than 2 taps before you get a 2k mana tap that ooms him (and thus prevents him from shadowbiting at all for several seconds to start getting mana. Its worth around 2 lifetaps with a decent spellpower pool.
> shadowbite is decent damage, its about 800 damage every 2 seconds, your pet wont crit in pvp so dont expect more than that. Essentially shadowbite will do more damage than curse of agony.

Cons:
> your pet must be attacking something to make this work. Felhunters do not have dash/charge or even a high base runspeed. They saunter around at about 110% of normal run speed so any slows and you dont get bites, dont get mana, cant darkpact, wasted 3 talent points.
> Slow devours. You will literally have to spam your devour to get it to work if your pet is attacking something. 1.5 second pet GCD, 2 second cooldown on attack. Thats a .5 second window where you have to hit the button before you get another GCD.
> more slow devours. Pet has to be attacking something, devour has a 30 yard range. now if you want to devour something it has to run back to across the map at 110% run speed if it isnt in a frost trap/dececration/piercing howl/frost armor/earthbind ect
> Pet gets fucked up. With the AOE reduction gone and the natural inclination to kill any pet that is mindlessly following you around your pet will die significantly more if you dont want to waste your talent points. most games my pet is either following me for dispels and heals or parked in a nice place until i move it to another nice place.

On another note, you lose shadowembrace, which is certainly an undervalued talent imo. Nightfall procs are not uncommon with good haste gear, haunt is and 8 second cooldown and SE lasts for 15 seconds. While 5/5 is usually not available 4/5 is what i run, and 12% more damage on dots is nothing to laugh at once the buff comes through.

You also dropped soul siphon, which is 18% more drain life/soul damage. Drain soul is rather pathetic without this talent especially if you are not taking SE. Dont expect drain soul to hit for more than 6k without siphon, which isnt really a great execute considering its 2.3-5 second ramp time.
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#24 Kluian

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:54 PM

Don't want to find a dark pact bind ~_~
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#25 Smir

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 11:58 PM

v .... life tap
alt + v ... dark pact

trying to get comfort with it in bgs -.- (anyway, alt v sucks ^^)
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#26 JaK91

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:02 AM

shift c for dark pact, im used to life taping like 2-3 times and im ooming my pet quick but its getting its mana back soo fast. in bgs i can see its not a problem but i just want to see how it would work out in 3s. i think it will be a bit annoying but manageable.
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#27 Substantial

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:19 AM

Imp felhunter is trash and a waste of points. Dark pact is only good assuming that you're pet is always attacking someone to get mana back with shadowbite via imp felhunter. It's one of those things that seems good in theory but to think you're going to have your pet attacking someone that much is absurd. Basically, enjoy having your pet go oom in longer games.
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#28 Maddlexie

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 01:19 AM

Im a little worried about the global cooldown this causes devour if shadowbite is on auto, 2 second CD on 1.5 global. One second late on a dispel and It could be costly. Must test it more

People should also remember that the Shadow Embrace is only a nerf healing wise (takes 3 stacks to reach 30%, but no one really got it for that). Damage wise at 2 stacks, its the same 10%

After playing with a bit in bgs/duels/skirmish, i dont think i like, half the time, my devours had global cooldowns so i had to press devour again. and the damage wasnt that noticeable and as someone said earlier, my pet may be on a healer or stationary so they damage it adds (100-200 a hit) is unnoticed
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#29 Ensipid

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:58 AM

does anybody know how much mana you get per dark pact at max rank?


It scales with spellpower
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#30 Dxm

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 06:26 AM

is there a macro command to toggle shadow bite's autocast? if so, would this be useful?

/theoretical toggle macro off
/cast devour
/theoretical toggle macro on
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#31 Glickz

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:33 AM

nada post some sick recounts of arena battles where you have imp felhunter
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#32 lysia

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 07:53 AM

maybe for double healer lock improved felhunter + dark pact is nice.
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#33 Pyrilus

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 08:54 AM

is there a macro command to toggle shadow bite's autocast? if so, would this be useful?

/theoretical toggle macro off
/cast devour
/theoretical toggle macro on


Could give this a shot.
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#34 Robi

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:09 AM

Should look like:

/petautocastoff shadow bite
/cast Devour Magic
/petautocaston shadow bite

But what would it help? i mean if you push it there a) is GCD or B) is no GCD. as soon as you push it the pet will a) devour B) run to devour or c) do nothing cause of GCD. In seperate macros if you know there will be cc in next seconds that you have to devour it would help ofc.
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#35 Rith

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 11:10 AM

Imp felhunter is trash, I dont like the gcd with shadowbite and devours so I wouldnt bother getting it.
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#36 Demonicsoul

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:23 PM

[quote name='betruger']I went a spec similar to this when they changed the talents around and added the glyph.

Cons:
> your pet must be attacking something to make this work. Felhunters do not have dash/charge or even a high base runspeed. They saunter around at about 110% of normal run speed so any slows and you dont get bites, dont get mana, cant darkpact, wasted 3 talent points.
> Slow devours. You will literally have to spam your devour to get it to work if your pet is attacking something. 1.5 second pet GCD, 2 second cooldown on attack. Thats a .5 second window where you have to hit the button before you get another GCD.
> more slow devours. Pet has to be attacking something, devour has a 30 yard range. now if you want to devour something it has to run back to across the map at 110% run speed if it isnt in a frost trap/dececration/piercing howl/frost armor/earthbind ect
> Pet gets fucked up. With the AOE reduction gone and the natural inclination to kill any pet that is mindlessly following you around your pet will die significantly more if you dont want to waste your talent points. most games my pet is either following me for dispels and heals or parked in a nice place until i move it to another nice place.
QUOTE]
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#37 Demonicsoul

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 12:24 PM

fucked up the quote, but agree with you betruger
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#38 Nadagast

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 02:25 PM

nada post some sick recounts of arena battles where you have imp felhunter


Unfortunately my recount logs from last season are all gone, but IIRC Dark Pact was giving me something like 70% of my mana back, with Life Tap being the other 30%

The point of the spec is not to have your pet attacking something the entire game. You use your pet almost like you used to, for mostly stomping totems (with a mouseover Shadow Bite macro) but you additionally try to have him assist dps if you feel like you won't need a Devour or if you're going for a kill. You still need Life Tap bound. The pet does recover mana quite fast though if you leave him on a target for extra DPS

I'm not even that great at controlling him, but consider the amount of extra damage you can get in a 10 second CC chain on their healer if you are controlling him very well:
5x Shadow Bite for 500 each = 2500 damage + 5x Auto for 300 each = 1500 damage. That's 4000 extra damage in a 10 second CC. If you didn't have Imp FH, and you put your pet on them, you'll gain 2000 damage (99% of people won't bother pet attacking without Imp FH so the number in reality is probably 0). I think if you control the pet half-decently, Imp FH are the 2 best DPS improving points after the standard talents taken in Aff, and the better you control, the better Imp FH is. And Dark Pact is something that you might as well take once you have 2/2 Imp FH

Pros:
> darkpact is great if you can remember to use it, your pet will not sustain more than 2 taps before you get a 2k mana tap that ooms him (and thus prevents him from shadowbiting at all for several seconds to start getting mana. Its worth around 2 lifetaps with a decent spellpower pool.
> shadowbite is decent damage, its about 800 damage every 2 seconds, your pet wont crit in pvp so dont expect more than that. Essentially shadowbite will do more damage than curse of agony.

Yep the Felhunter will run oom if you Pact twice in a row, and while you do want to avoid this if you can, it's not really the worst thing in the world if it does happen. He'll regen enough for a Shadow Bite in a few seconds and after 1 Bite he'll have enough to do a Spell Lock and Devour. You still need Life Tap bound

Cons:
> your pet must be attacking something to make this work. Felhunters do not have dash/charge or even a high base runspeed. They saunter around at about 110% of normal run speed so any slows and you dont get bites, dont get mana, cant darkpact, wasted 3 talent points.

You don't need to have the pet attacking something 100% of the game for the talent points to be worth more than anything else you can do with the last 3 points of an Aff spec. I'd estimate (pulled directly out of my ass) even if the pet is only attacking 10% of the game, it's still a better use of 3 points than anything else you can get

> Slow devours. You will literally have to spam your devour to get it to work if your pet is attacking something. 1.5 second pet GCD, 2 second cooldown on attack. Thats a .5 second window where you have to hit the button before you get another GCD.
> more slow devours. Pet has to be attacking something, devour has a 30 yard range. now if you want to devour something it has to run back to across the map at 110% run speed if it isnt in a frost trap/dececration/piercing howl/frost armor/earthbind ect

This all comes down to the fact that your pet shouldn't be and doesn't need to be attacking something the entire game. Dark Pact won't entirely replace your Life Tap key, it will just be a source of faster, no-HP-cost mana, which is useful when you're not being trained (it saves a GCD) and extremely useful when you are being trained for obvious reasons.

> Pet gets fucked up. With the AOE reduction gone and the natural inclination to kill any pet that is mindlessly following you around your pet will die significantly more if you dont want to waste your talent points. most games my pet is either following me for dispels and heals or parked in a nice place until i move it to another nice place.

Don't just send your pet in at the start of the game and let it sit there autoattacking something the entire game. Use your pet pretty much like normal, leave it back at the start, and once the game is a bit underway, start stomping totems, or assist dps with it.

On another note, you lose shadowembrace, which is certainly an undervalued talent imo. Nightfall procs are not uncommon with good haste gear, haunt is and 8 second cooldown and SE lasts for 15 seconds. While 5/5 is usually not available 4/5 is what i run, and 12% more damage on dots is nothing to laugh at once the buff comes through.

I don't know for sure one way or the other, but I'm almost 100% positive that 3 pts in Imp FH + Dark Pact gives more damage than 3 in Shadow Embrace

You also dropped soul siphon, which is 18% more drain life/soul damage. Drain soul is rather pathetic without this talent especially if you are not taking SE. Dont expect drain soul to hit for more than 6k without siphon, which isnt really a great execute considering its 2.3-5 second ramp time.

I like Soul Siphon, and if I play with a Hunter or Rogue I'll probably get it instead of Imp CoA, but again I'm pretty sure Imp FH is a larger damage increase.
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#39 Lauviah

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:22 PM

^ hmm, dark pact out of gcd? Last time I used it was in vanilla so don't know ;p
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#40 Jugg

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 04:24 PM

Think he's comparing the mana back from one DP to two lifetaps.
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