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hunter/lock/x - lock play style (aff)


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#21 Loincloth

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:26 PM

zajklon said:

i actually didn't downrep you, but okay bro :rolleyes:

i can downrep you 3 times now if you want me to prove it :')

but you on the other hand had to downrep me 2 times :( (and also lolled at the i'm a 10x better player than you :') can't talk with wotlk cleave heroes...)

I didn't down rep you but other hunters probably did. Don't worry its been offset by the down reps I got. People probably just don't like seeing one person thoroughly explaining their reasoning and another person throwing out 1 or 2 sentences saying they are wrong without any constructive advice or suggestions.
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#22 Loincloth

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:28 PM

Shammerz said:

Played the comp to r1 and giving my opinion based on the 200 games we played together netted me -rep and the comment "wrong".

Yeah well welcome to AJ. I get down repped so many times but luckily I get boosted up by people who see that I'm only trying to talk strategy and help lol. Even if some of us are naive its good to see that the hunter community sticks together and doesn't go around trolling like some other classes do :)
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#23 zajklon

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 07:47 PM

Shammerz said:

Played the comp to r1 and giving my opinion based on the 200 games we played together netted me -rep and the comment "wrong".

http://img168.images.../4545/ajlol.jpg

same. just remove the rep system all toghetter. besides 1 all my - reps have been trolls and i'm 95% sure that it is the same for every other aj member here.

#24 Loincloth

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:17 AM

Lol the rep system doesnt matter don't worry I wasnt the one that down repped you I think it was probably just an angry hunter. Here ill +rep you if it makes you feel better

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#25 Loincloth

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 03:17 AM

Oops cant give out rep because ive given out too much today. Ill remember to give you some later.
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#26 Kluian

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Posted 27 January 2010 - 09:29 PM

You can report undeserved -rep to Rapture if you're so inclined.

#27 Rith

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 09:26 AM

I played this comp against rmp today in skirms and it shits on rmp :(

Spam fear all day tho, I like it!

#28 Demonicsoul

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 02:15 PM

what happens if your rep drops alot?

#29 Ifix

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 02:21 PM

Demonicsoul said:

what happens if your rep drops alot?

nothing.

#30 Cogito

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 04:52 PM

I found one of the real strengths of the comp was its ability to switch.  The problem with focusing on only one target is that they can play hyper defensive, hugging the huntard, or LoS as soon as they start getting dotted.  If they do and you chase you can expose yourself or your healer.  Sometimes its worth it, but generally its easier to put pressure on anything thats exposed.

One of the best uses of this are applying a round of dots on the last fear and then swapping hard once it breaks. This works both on an off target or even healer.  By the time the healer sits through a full round of CC *someone* is going to be hurting and they are going to be paying attention to them and often expose themselves.  If their trinket is down and our pally can land a stun once the last fear breaks, they are fully dotted, and I land a silence chimera readiness chimera silence its very likely they will die.  Even if not, they are forced to choose between healing themselves or their partner.

To be honest we never really found peeling for the lock to be particularly effective.  Perhaps I just suck at it, but we tried frost trap and freedom and with all the gap closers that war and dk have we just weren't able to keep them off for any significant time.  We had much better luck with just going toe to toe in a dmg / cd race.  Scatter->Freeze on the healer, dotting both targets, popping rapid fire and forcing them to play defensive or die, our pally generally doesn't even freedom our lock but saves it for swaps to me vs TSG.

#31 Filovirus

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 05:53 PM

Cogito said:

To be honest we never really found peeling for the lock to be particularly effective.  Perhaps I just suck at it, but we tried frost trap and freedom and with all the gap closers that war and dk have we just weren't able to keep them off for any significant time.  We had much better luck with just going toe to toe in a dmg / cd race.  Scatter->Freeze on the healer, dotting both targets, popping rapid fire and forcing them to play defensive or die, our pally generally doesn't even freedom our lock but saves it for swaps to me vs TSG.

You're dead on about it being hard to peel for the warlock. We essentially never use frost trap, instead choosing to scatter>freeze trap a healer while we blast something down. TSG is a dps race that we usually win; the paladin has to blow bubble and trinket usually within the first 15 seconds. However switching off the warrior to the dk doesn't really do much because the dk still has a shitload of defensive cds, and he isn't going to die fast enough. Gotta kill that warrior. Plus, shitting on the warrior all game makes him play defensively (if he has a brain) and my paladin can keep me topped off.

I don't like switching to the dk because then the warrior has a 2h on again and is doing a fuckload of damage. What I love about going balls out on warriors is that their damage gets cut significantly and puts us in control of the game. We only really switch to the dk during the warrior's shield wall and then go right back on the warrior.

The game is heavily based on how good your paladin is at his cooldown management. Once he gets a good rotation set up for tsg it's pretty much free points. Be wary of the focus grips/mind freezes on your pally!

#32 Cogito

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 07:21 PM

Its a cost / benefit decision.  Tossing DoTs on something takes what?  2-3 GCDs (Cor, UA, CoA for an off target?)  Its really a question of what else your going to do with that time.  As a lock there is a diminishing returns on your single target DPS.  After your dots are up how much dmg does Drain Life really accomplish?  

Is there any reason not to spend the globals to dot up the DK and make him a viable switch target. It also forces the paladin to choose who to heal, and a heal on the DK is a heal *not* on the war which is a round about way of putting more pressure on the war.

#33 Rith

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 07:30 PM

If scatters arnt going on the dk then it doesn't hurt dotting the dk at all...

Honestly I would UA fear the DK, and then pally fear him if he lichbornes.

#34 Filovirus

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 08:33 PM

Cogito said:

Its a cost / benefit decision.  Tossing DoTs on something takes what?  2-3 GCDs (Cor, UA, CoA for an off target?)  Its really a question of what else your going to do with that time.  As a lock there is a diminishing returns on your single target DPS.  After your dots are up how much dmg does Drain Life really accomplish?  

Is there any reason not to spend the globals to dot up the DK and make him a viable switch target. It also forces the paladin to choose who to heal, and a heal on the DK is a heal *not* on the war which is a round about way of putting more pressure on the war.

The games that we have last like 30 seconds vs. TSG, sometimes even faster than that. My main priority is putting out pressure on the warrior, so haunt/ua/corr/coa, and whatever nightfall procs I get. I then get to a position where I can fear the paladin twice because the first one is trinketed usually. As I'm moving towards the paladin I roll a couple dots on the dk, but the games are usually too fast for this to amount to anything.

Basically the game goes like this:

Warrior charges in, I roll full dots on him, hunter scatter traps pally almost instantly before sacs if possible and then puts out as much damage into the warrior as possible. I then try to fear the paladin as he will have trinketed and sacced after the scatter trap, and then he has to bubble. At this point I refresh dots on the warrior if necessary, and if the paladin is still bubbled, I tab some dots onto the dk with lack of something better to do. DK is only switched onto if the warrior walls, and as soon as wall is down, we just kill the warrior. Once the pally has trinketed and bubbled (usually 20 seconds in), and your fear comes off dr, game ends pmuch.

This is all assuming that the tsg trains me and not my paladin or hunter. The game is a lot different if either of these things occur.

#35 Dpsonroidz

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 08:34 PM

I played Hunter, lock, pally in s5 ( we got gladiator with only like 70 games played) and I plan on running it again next season.

I agree with Filo, as the lock I would just do insane pressure on one target with my GCD's and CC the healer. I figured out pretty early that while dotting two targets is the way to go against certain comps, Full dots rolling/searing pain spam while loads of CC on the healer was our winning formula on the majority of games played rather than just throwing dots everywhere.

#36 Nadagast

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 09:02 PM

I don't understand how you're ever gonna get Fears on the Pally while you're being trained unless the TSG is retarded

#37 Loincloth

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 09:09 PM

Nadagast said:

I don't understand how you're ever gonna get Fears on the Pally while you're being trained unless the TSG is retarded

If you are putting out enough pressure as Pally/Hunter/X I have found that hunter cc alone is enough to make a TSG fall behind. When I played hunter/ele/holy my shaman would just sit there dropping totems and turreting damage and I would go cc the paladin by myself while throwing instants on whichever target was more viable. Most of the time that target is the warrior. I assume hunter/lock/holy is pretty similar as far as target calls, just the pressure is not as bursty, but just as devastating over the duration of a hunter cc chain with a little help with a hoj or fear or w/e

If it gets to the point where their paladin blows cd's before yours you basically have control of the game and once the bubble falls down they are donions. Our general mentality was that as soon as the other paladin bubbles it gives our paladin alot of flexibility to blow his if necessary because a win for our team is imminent.
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#38 Nadagast

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 09:25 PM

Yeah I didn't say anything about it being unbeatable, just that I don't see how you get in range to Fear the Pally while being trained against a TSG that isn't completely awful

#39 Instability

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 09:57 PM

Nadagast said:

Yeah I didn't say anything about it being unbeatable, just that I don't see how you get in range to Fear the Pally while being trained against a TSG that isn't completely awful

Honestly you wouldn't be able to, unless you're on RoV or the pally is too cool for school and stands out in the open.

#40 Dpsonroidz

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Posted 30 January 2010 - 09:57 PM

Yeah typically to land a fear on the pally on a TSG I would play near his pillar so when he comes in LOS to heal our hunter would scatter, then I could AoE fear the melee off me quick cast fear or deathcoil or something and shiz would die...in theory. But yeah theres no way you get a fear off against a competant TSG without some form of the hunter helping you keep the pally in place and even then its dicey. TSG is one of those comps where dotting two targets makes sense.




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