Jump to content

Photo

Flare Overpowered?


  • Please log in to reply
181 replies to this topic

#21 Liquilol

Liquilol
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Aggra (Português)
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 193
  • Talents: Discipline 1/0/0/1/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1021
  • 3v3: 1468

Posted 14 January 2010 - 04:29 PM

flare can be overpowered (specially in rov) but imo not a winning factor.
  • 0
Question -"are gladiators good future managers? genuinely curious about your opinions guys."

Awnser -"Doubt it as a direct correlation. Not everyone can be the leader on a team.

However I wouldn't be surprised if gladiators have an abnormally high spacial IQ."

#22 Hallontagg

Hallontagg
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Frostwhisper
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 755
  • Talents:

Posted 14 January 2010 - 05:35 PM

Flare is a counter yes, but it's not like prot warriors. It's simply another tool, but I have to agree that the mechanics are pretty lame. And some tweaking wouldn't be a bad idea.

I would like a new graphic and some time before the flare hits the ground (1-2sec isn't too much to ask for), they might as well up the duration and CD with ~5sec. This would probably mean that flares will be used more as Trap protection etc, instead of instantly counter vanish. The 5sec CD/Duration increase would make flare a bit more stationary, as a result thinking ahead might be a bigger factor.

Would this be a tweak or a big nerf? I'm not sure, would be great if someone could comment and give some feedback.

Cryzz


Duration/cd wouldnt be too much of a change, we need less of our precious gcds to keep it up, but we cant change the location of it as often (depending on the situation its a slight nerf imo).
The problem with giving it time before it hits the ground is that we´re reliant on not getting the opener on us, if you do and use it well we are screwed save for major cd usage. Personally i think giving us a passive damage reduction during stuns/disarms (or maybe fear instead of disarm, it´d be much stronger though hunters do need help against teams with aff locks).
Giving us increased defenses would hopefully open up to moving us away from being glass cannons that are reliant on the partners doing something as soon as anything connects. (ie in the long run it opens up possibilities to reduce our burst, increase our sustained (mainly in melee) and (in my personal preference) removing our inability to shoot in melee. Which is a huge step, but the fact that we have so low uptime of actually dpsing in pvp means that when we do it has to really count, which is bad design imo.
  • 0

#23 fant0m8

fant0m8
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 4,336
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 14 January 2010 - 06:46 PM

Flare only seems overpowered if you're not familiar with the mechanics. (There are several examples of this in this thread alone. People thinking that it "covers all the area under its arc" or something stupid.)

It has a 20 second duration and a 20 second cooldown. It doesn't stop you from sapping/opening at the beginning of a match.

If you're unable to put out enough pressure to make someone move out of a 10 yard radius area, wtf is your team doing? (Talking about 3's/5's here.) Even if you don't, you've basically turned the arena for the Hunter team into an arena 5% as big as RoV, how is that not an advantage?

Let me say it again: the duration is the same as the cooldown... it's either on cooldown and somewhere on the map, and if you vanish outside of that area, he CAN'T put it back down until it disappears elsewhere (try noticing when he does put it down and don't vanish right when it's going to come off cooldown?). If it's not on cooldown, then it's not on the ground anywhere and you can vanish anyway, just don't stay stealthed in the same area or he'll flare you out (another hint, it's on the GCD).

I would have more sympathy towards Rogues and Flare if it wasn't so gamebreaking against a Hunter in particular to get off ANY restealths in a game. Rogue vs. Hunter has been balanced so that it's difficult to get a Vanish off, but when you do... you gain a ridiculous advantage. If the Hunter keeps you out of stealth, then HE gets the advantage.

Of course I hate it when this situation doesn't go my way, but it's the same the other way around as well. In my mind, that's balance, when the outcome depends on how well you use your skills to outplay the enemy classes.
  • 3
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#24 Icpie

Icpie
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 189
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 14 January 2010 - 07:14 PM

Flare only seems overpowered if you're not familiar with the mechanics. (There are several examples of this in this thread alone. People thinking that it "covers all the area under its arc" or something stupid.)

It has a 20 second duration and a 20 second cooldown. It doesn't stop you from sapping/opening at the beginning of a match.

If you're unable to put out enough pressure to make someone move out of a 10 yard radius area, wtf is your team doing? (Talking about 3's/5's here.) Even if you don't, you've basically turned the arena for the Hunter team into an arena 5% as big as RoV, how is that not an advantage?

Let me say it again: the duration is the same as the cooldown... it's either on cooldown and somewhere on the map, and if you vanish outside of that area, he CAN'T put it back down until it disappears elsewhere (try noticing when he does put it down and don't vanish right when it's going to come off cooldown?). If it's not on cooldown, then it's not on the ground anywhere and you can vanish anyway, just don't stay stealthed in the same area or he'll flare you out (another hint, it's on the GCD).

I would have more sympathy towards Rogues and Flare if it wasn't so gamebreaking against a Hunter in particular to get off ANY restealths in a game. Rogue vs. Hunter has been balanced so that it's difficult to get a Vanish off, but when you do... you gain a ridiculous advantage. If the Hunter keeps you out of stealth, then HE gets the advantage.

Of course I hate it when this situation doesn't go my way, but it's the same the other way around as well. In my mind, that's balance, when the outcome depends on how well you use your skills to outplay the enemy classes.



OP's probably mad @ hunter's b/c he was flared out and hit by kill shot for 9k or something.

Anywho, pretty much if you got flared out, you got:

A. Outplayed because you stealth or vanished in an obvious area.

B. Owned through shear random flaring via hunter.


Hunters have flare to counter rogues while rogues counter hunters deterrence. (Though the flare lasting 4 seconds after running out of it is annoying. What do hunters shoot out of that flare, tiny sticky flash lights?)
  • 1
Spoiler

#25 fant0m8

fant0m8
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 4,336
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 14 January 2010 - 08:59 PM

Flare Overpowered? 01-14-2010 02:06 PM Obvious bias causing misleading information.


So, Mr. Anonymous Down-Repper... why don't you give some actual REASONS for my supposed "bias" and give us some information that is not "misleading" about Flare?

Because I'm pretty sure that everything I said was true, and on the matter of bias, I have an 80 rogue (granted, he's a 3rd alt, but I have hit 1800 for his weapons and geared him up). Where's your Hunter?
  • 1
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#26 Danje

Danje
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Twilight's Hammer
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 264
  • Talents: Assassination

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:04 PM

Sad thing about this season is, any team that has a Rogue can be won by the Hunter standing on his flare the entire game.
  • 0

P.S. If you see a hunter in the street try not to make eye contact. If you accidentally meet his gaze, try standing still, if my theories are correct and hunters in fact share 68.4% of their DNA with the T-rex, he won't be able to see you and you may avoid attack.

Spoiler

#27 Hallontagg

Hallontagg
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Frostwhisper
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 755
  • Talents:

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:07 PM

Sad thing about this season is, any team that has a Rogue can be won by the Hunter standing on his flare the entire game.


you actually believe that? :s as Russet wrote, if the hunter only stands on top of his same-position flare the entire game you´ve made him make the arena a 10 yards radius circle for himself, he wont get an inch away from you with that.
  • 0

#28 Zybak

Zybak
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Darkspear
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 1,983
  • Talents: Feral 2/0/0/1/2/.

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:24 PM

Flare is stupid on ROV especially if its a hunter and a warlock when they flare the back your box and shadowfury the front....how dumb QQ
  • 0

#29 Mysteriouz

Mysteriouz
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Trollbane
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 179
  • Talents: Assassination

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:32 PM

The only thing I don't get about flare is the debuff after you leave the flare area. I totally agree with Russet, flare is balanced and it adds a certain agree of skill to Hunter/Rogue duels.

But the debuff? Naah.
  • 0

#30 Stealth

Stealth
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Blackrock
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 577
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:34 PM

just like mages?
//@the mage obv.
//also absolutely agree with myzt
  • 0
Posted Image

#31 Hallontagg

Hallontagg
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Frostwhisper
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 755
  • Talents:

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:36 PM

The only thing I don't get about flare is the debuff after you leave the flare area. I totally agree with Russet, flare is balanced and it adds a certain agree of skill to Hunter/Rogue duels.

But the debuff? Naah.


That is a matter of delay between you and the server, its the same with desecration, frost trap etc. I wish that could be fixe (since it fucks everyone over in different situations, as hunter deterence comes to mind).
  • 0

#32 fant0m8

fant0m8
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Eredar
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 4,336
  • Talents: Marksmanship

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:42 PM

The only thing I don't get about flare is the debuff after you leave the flare area. I totally agree with Russet, flare is balanced and it adds a certain agree of skill to Hunter/Rogue duels.

But the debuff? Naah.


Yes I agree, the debuff should definitely fade faster. That's unfair.

The range should also be clearer, and it should be obvious the moment it starts affecting an area. Rogues don't like that it's unclear, and I don't either.
  • 1
Bye again! This game isn't fun when you don't know anyone else that still plays.

#33 Darksoldierr

Darksoldierr
  • Junkies
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Twisting Nether
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 1,000
  • Talents: Enhancement 1/0/2/2/1/2/0
  • 2v2: 848

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:52 PM

Im sure, there are way bigger problems in the current arena "balance" than Flare :)
  • 0
What do humans know of our pain? We have sung songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea.

#34 Stealth

Stealth
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Blackrock
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 577
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:58 PM

u know blizz, they also (read only) care about small things
  • 0
Posted Image

#35 FujiwaraTakumi

FujiwaraTakumi
  • Premium Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Frostmane
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 149
  • Talents: Assassination 0/1/2/1/2/2/0
  • 2v2: 951
  • 3v3: 1653

Posted 14 January 2010 - 10:22 PM

That is a matter of delay between you and the server, its the same with desecration, frost trap etc. I wish that could be fixe (since it fucks everyone over in different situations, as hunter deterence comes to mind).


It's not, nobody has 3000ms between them and the server without complaining about that before flare. It has something to do with combat pulse or whatever the hell it's called. The debuff sometimes will go off almost instantly if you happen to move off of the flare when the pulse occurs. In an instance where you leave the flare right after the last pulse though, the debuff may be on you for another 3-4 seconds.
  • 0

#36 Offbalance

Offbalance
  • Members
  • Worgenclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 6
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 14 January 2010 - 10:32 PM

Yes I agree, the debuff should definitely fade faster. That's unfair.

The range should also be clearer, and it should be obvious the moment it starts affecting an area. Rogues don't like that it's unclear, and I don't either.


yes, exactly this. Avoiding flares and other methods of bringing you out of stealth if sort of a fun challenge and feels like it raises the skill cap, guessing where the edge of flare is is not.
  • 0

#37 Hallontagg

Hallontagg
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Frostwhisper
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 755
  • Talents:

Posted 14 January 2010 - 10:34 PM

It's not, nobody has 3000ms between them and the server without complaining about that before flare. It has something to do with combat pulse or whatever the hell it's called. The debuff sometimes will go off almost instantly if you happen to move off of the flare when the pulse occurs. In an instance where you leave the flare right after the last pulse though, the debuff may be on you for another 3-4 seconds.


hm true, i stand corrected. =)
  • 0

#38 Nemzz

Nemzz
  • Merker
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Defias Brotherhood
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 868
  • Talents: Assassination

Posted 15 January 2010 - 03:32 AM

I don't mind flare if it wasn't for the fact that the debuff lasts for like 5 seconds after leaving flare radius.


this. never happened at 60/tbc
  • 0

Heard wow char. names cant be longer than 12 letters. Ok, i admit im a retard, thinking that wow players might use their brain once in a while is unforgivable.
Also heard that people who are playing in good setups are hopelessly BAD.

So im a wotlk hero, yet managed to accomplish more in 4 months than you in your whole wow career,

Rank 2 0 time gladiator who has achieved bigger and better goals in WOW than you

#39 Gluttony

Gluttony
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Area 52
  • Retaliation
  • Posts: 473
  • Talents:

Posted 15 January 2010 - 03:42 AM

they only gay thing about flare is that debuff stays for multiple seconds after you leave the area of it
  • 0
" I am not positive I am HIV positive"

#40 Aasgeir

Aasgeir
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Jaedenar
  • Misery
  • Posts: 688
  • Talents: Arms

Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:19 PM

im fine with flare, however i hate the fact that you can sit on for as long as you want and fuck up the rogues opener completely. with good ms its not possible to get cheap shot off, only sap if you sprint and spamm it. getting a cheap shot off is at times more important than getting sap off.

+obviosuly, mensioned already; that the debuff stays on you for infinite time + graphic issues + the fact that hunters already can knock you out of vanish by just pointing your direction.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<