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Hydra calls for hunter nerfs


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#21 nattehfat

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:19 PM

Cause if Hydra says it, it has to be true riite :D

+ for you

just make 0,5% of each class to get a gladiator, not total
so you wont be able to cry on your class if youre out of glad range
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#22 Felic

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:30 PM

+ for you

just make 0,5% of each class to get a gladiator, not total
so you wont be able to cry on your class if youre out of glad range


Yeah well I mean... Sure hunter damage can be retarded, but most likely not alone. It is only really Mages and perhaps Priests who cant take the heat for too long, but Hunters are pretty easy to lock down and shit all over on, and you got teammates + LoS most likely alot of the times.

I mean if Hunters dmg gets nerfed, I can probably afk with Sacred Shield on me. I think the fact that mages are using 700 resilience and pve gear is what makes it look worse than it is, and when coupled with another physical damage dealer (hunters always are basicly) they put shitloads of pressure on mages. As a Ret I could do same retarded damage on a mage, if I had him in a 5 sec stun he would surely iceblock if no heals.

Their CC isnt amazing and their survivability sure isnt either, and a famous Priest saying "hey they need nerfs" isnt going to help, cause Hunters can "counter" RMPs by locking down the mage.. If the hunter was BM or Survival there would be completly no way they could beat a mage. Mages should start using more PvP gear, and they are surely a fine class, with only 1 counterclass where as we all physical dmg dealing classes have to deal with 20xwizardcleaves all the time, or a RMP shitting all over you in 25 seconds unavoidable CC chains, cause a good RMP is the team with the best synergy in the fucking world.

Top 0,5% teams should get gladiator AND top 0,5% class. So it might be the same people, but the ones just outside it could get it too if they played a lame ass class.
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:o i didnt c wat u did thar, could you explain for us dumb ppl?


#23 tassili

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:36 PM

Yeah well I mean... Sure hunter damage can be retarded, but most likely not alone. It is only really Mages and perhaps Priests who cant take the heat for too long, but Hunters are pretty easy to lock down and shit all over on, and you got teammates + LoS most likely alot of the times.

I mean if Hunters dmg gets nerfed, I can probably afk with Sacred Shield on me. I think the fact that mages are using 700 resilience and pve gear is what makes it look worse than it is, and when coupled with another physical damage dealer (hunters always are basicly) they put shitloads of pressure on mages. As a Ret I could do same retarded damage on a mage, if I had him in a 5 sec stun he would surely iceblock if no heals.

Their CC isnt amazing and their survivability sure isnt either, and a famous Priest saying "hey they need nerfs" isnt going to help, cause Hunters can "counter" RMPs by locking down the mage.. If the hunter was BM or Survival there would be completly no way they could beat a mage. Mages should start using more PvP gear, and they are surely a fine class, with only 1 counterclass where as we all physical dmg dealing classes have to deal with 20xwizardcleaves all the time, or a RMP shitting all over you in 25 seconds unavoidable CC chains, cause a good RMP is the team with the best synergy in the fucking world.

Top 0,5% teams should get gladiator AND top 0,5% class. So it might be the same people, but the ones just outside it could get it too if they played a lame ass class.


+10 green bubble things to u
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#24 Effy

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:38 PM

Some mages use full resil gear versus specific hunter teams in tournaments or on live. Not like it makes a huge difference.. Blaming hunter damage because of the amount resilience mages use is a bit odd...
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#25 Getrugged

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:39 PM

Yeah well I mean... Sure hunter damage can be retarded, but most likely not alone. It is only really Mages and perhaps Priests who cant take the heat for too long, but Hunters are pretty easy to lock down and shit all over on, and you got teammates + LoS most likely alot of the times.

I mean if Hunters dmg gets nerfed, I can probably afk with Sacred Shield on me. I think the fact that mages are using 700 resilience and pve gear is what makes it look worse than it is, and when coupled with another physical damage dealer (hunters always are basicly) they put shitloads of pressure on mages. As a Ret I could do same retarded damage on a mage, if I had him in a 5 sec stun he would surely iceblock if no heals.

Their CC isnt amazing and their survivability sure isnt either, and a famous Priest saying "hey they need nerfs" isnt going to help, cause Hunters can "counter" RMPs by locking down the mage.. If the hunter was BM or Survival there would be completly no way they could beat a mage. Mages should start using more PvP gear, and they are surely a fine class, with only 1 counterclass where as we all physical dmg dealing classes have to deal with 20xwizardcleaves all the time, or a RMP shitting all over you in 25 seconds unavoidable CC chains, cause a good RMP is the team with the best synergy in the fucking world.

Top 0,5% teams should get gladiator AND top 0,5% class. So it might be the same people, but the ones just outside it could get it too if they played a lame ass class.


im so hot for you right now *rubs tender nipple*
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The hunter formerly known as Magecrusher <3

#26 tassili

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:39 PM

thats what i was saying in few hunter threads but i get glamed by some hunters like levidia and his others dogs (pets ?) hunter dmg compared with heroism is just retarded, it makes mage go block, it makes warrior go shield INSTANTLY and make ppls LOS , or die it there is no los , ranged class with instants (easy to play) with defensive BLINK + 2 oshit buttons = even more easy to play, + 17 sec cc chain on 30 sec CD im right ? lol retarded everty top team has hunter atm or at least few hunters in top 5


ranged class with a deadzone,easy to los since when do u lose to a hunter 1 on 1 as a priest l2p if u do,our damage is no more burst than envenom rogues overpower spaming wars locks frost mages ect
just cause we shit on pve geared mages dont mean we are op,althrough we are in a good place atm

how about s6 were we had traps fizzle and that patch with 17 nerfs in it and besides icc gear and ammo change we didnt really get buffed

s8 pvp gear will probly tone down our damage cause atm its high only cause of the high ammount of pve gear we can get and s7 gear is out of date in resli stam ect
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#27 gowiththeflow87

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:39 PM

shit is funny tho , hunter's current dmg maybe be a bit high but i believe the main reason he could whine about it is b/c hunters tend to shit on mages but he doesnt complain about RMP been dominant from the get go :rolleyes:...

The guy's godlike playing priest and his 2 other partners are similar players of his caliber with their own classes . You'd expect them to adjust to the situation with no problem especially when they play a comp thats always been really strong in hands of good players. I mean its not like hunters are as broken as prot warriors lol.
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#28 tassili

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:43 PM

shit is funny tho , hunter's current dmg maybe be a bit high but i believe the main reason he could whine about it is b/c hunters tend to shit on mages but he doesnt complain about RMP been dominant from the get go :rolleyes:...

The guy's godlike playing priest and his 2 other partners are similar players of his caliber with their own classes . You'd expect them to adjust to the situation with no problem especially when they play a comp thats always been really strong in hands of good players. I mean its not like hunters are as broken as prot warriors lol.


7 season of rmp being dominate and they being countered by something they go qq,ill trade detterance for iceblock anyday sit in while i wait for disengage dont have to worry about rogue vanish an cheapshoting/disarming ect
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#29 CadaverousDK

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:46 PM

Hunters dmg mostly retarded vs mages.

Quite high vs other classes then mages aswell but compared to elesham/warr/envemon rogues etc it's nothing special.


Apart from u can pummel/kick ele shamans and rogue are melee (enough said), hunters and just mental from start to finish.
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#30 Guest_Shizzle_*

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 02:56 PM

I have to agree that hunters damage is obscene and I think it should be nerfed somehow, but it has to be done in a correct way in that case. As a priest a MM hunter can rip through me rather fast if I don't LoS all the time and it seems a bit silly since realistically I can't stay away from them forever, pairing them with something that snares me well or stuns me and it turns stupid. But I know that hunters have problems against classes that can just dispell their serpent sting and that is pretty much all their damage, or burst if you want. Making it more even instead so that hunters could do nice damage against classes that could dispell poisons and not rape the ones that can't would be a nice solution imo. I like hunters and their playstyle, it's a fun and challenging class and when you meet a good hunter I always feel they really can play very well and deserve to be able to do that well against all classes instead of just some.
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#31 nattehfat

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:03 PM

Yeah well I mean... Sure hunter damage can be retarded, but most likely not alone. It is only really Mages and perhaps Priests who cant take the heat for too long, but Hunters are pretty easy to lock down and shit all over on, and you got teammates + LoS most likely alot of the times.

I mean if Hunters dmg gets nerfed, I can probably afk with Sacred Shield on me. I think the fact that mages are using 700 resilience and pve gear is what makes it look worse than it is, and when coupled with another physical damage dealer (hunters always are basicly) they put shitloads of pressure on mages. As a Ret I could do same retarded damage on a mage, if I had him in a 5 sec stun he would surely iceblock if no heals.

Their CC isnt amazing and their survivability sure isnt either, and a famous Priest saying "hey they need nerfs" isnt going to help, cause Hunters can "counter" RMPs by locking down the mage.. If the hunter was BM or Survival there would be completly no way they could beat a mage. Mages should start using more PvP gear, and they are surely a fine class, with only 1 counterclass where as we all physical dmg dealing classes have to deal with 20xwizardcleaves all the time, or a RMP shitting all over you in 25 seconds unavoidable CC chains, cause a good RMP is the team with the best synergy in the fucking world.

Top 0,5% teams should get gladiator AND top 0,5% class. So it might be the same people, but the ones just outside it could get it too if they played a lame ass class.

ey man, i upranked you for being funny
wanna get downranked for being constructive? i wanna see cries with l2play in 1 sentence

i play x / y / z setup
x is weak vs a (especially if we abuse 600-700resi cause its good vs b,c,d)
y is weak vs a
z is average vs a
b,c,d are strong against a
--------------------------
nerf a
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#32 Hallontagg

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:03 PM

I have to agree that hunters damage is obscene and I think it should be nerfed somehow, but it has to be done in a correct way in that case. As a priest a MM hunter can rip through me rather fast if I don't LoS all the time and it seems a bit silly since realistically I can't stay away from them forever, pairing them with something that snares me well or stuns me and it turns stupid. But I know that hunters have problems against classes that can just dispell their serpent sting and that is pretty much all their damage, or burst if you want. Making it more even instead so that hunters could do nice damage against classes that could dispell poisons and not rape the ones that can't would be a nice solution imo. I like hunters and their playstyle, it's a fun and challenging class and when you meet a good hunter I always feel they really can play very well and deserve to be able to do that well against all classes instead of just some.


You´re summin it up quite okey, though i have to say that its not only hunter damage that is obscene, just about every class does just as sick damage, (ie damage is an issue, but its not a hunter issue per se). Combine a ele shaman destro lock or even frostmage with something that locks down so they can burst and you´re going to see the same kind of damage, hey even just combining 2 melee and you´re going to see it. Once again damage is too high for just about every class, its NOT JUST HUNTERS.

Its so sad, and funny at the same time, to see whine all the time about a class which due to our limitations has been forced to be frontloaded, and then due to being a physical damage class, hurt classes weak too physical damage whose tools are to keep melee at range.
If anything all you mages, priests and other assorted players should want our melee limitation removed because that would be the first step to making our damage balanced.
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#33 sockersot

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:05 PM

Well i agree with you Felic. Hunter damage is quite over the top, mostly agaist cloth classes and in most cases mages especially. However as Felic just stated hunters cc / survivability is quite bad and filled with buggs.
Hunters CC is basically the most easily avoidable and rng based out of all classes. Conclusion, we have to wait 30 seconds in order to throw a "solid" trap, and by solid i mean scatter (just to be a little bit more assured you will hit your target) and trap. Scatter is RNG based on movement, if some other cc is currently on a target, lets say fear, the target will run away from the actual trap due to the fact that fear makes your character run faster. You simply need 1 second interruption between the scatter and the aiming of the trap, lets say a charge? shadowfury stun? gauge? poly? fear? disarm? silence? charge?.. or wait lets just have ur teamm8 stand on the scattered person to take the trap (GG!). On top of that we have to think about the trap not resisting, not bug, aimed properly, timed perfectly. Hence it is one of the most risky CC in game, feel free to argue, however you will lose (unless you are a retard who thinks your right cause ur mom told you to believe in urself).

Survivability is quite failing as well due to our key-abilities to survive, like masters call, deterrence, disengage, fd, scatter shot, silence shot (all of these are not defensive abilities but they do fail). Scatter and silence shot fail due to a macro bug, what it does is that it shoots the scatter at the current target when you are using focus macro, on a different focused target. Now that would make me unable to cc for about 30 seconds?.. or simply die cause LOL 10k chaosbolt.
Deterrence fails becuase you can so easily get fucked through it anyhow, disarm fucks it all up, u can get stunned, cc'd, killed through it.. some argue that you pop it to late, but how can it be that i pop deterrence and i get killed form a lava burst that comes through deterrence on the 4th second of the duration of 5 seconds?.. It doesn't remove any current dots either so warlocks / sp shit on hunters so hard its not even funny. IF i get cc'd in a deterrence it wont work at all, they can completely abuse the hunter. By stunning, killling, disarming, cc-ing or w/e. Masters call doesn't work properly as it buggs 10-15% of the times, mostly on ROV (100% if your pet buggs, u need to spend 1-20 seconds trying to get it of the elevator, or you have to do a 5 sec interruptable pet removal to call it back during arena vs wiz cleave, yes.. totally doable) but that's due to the elevator bug.
FD should make your enemies incoming casts etc on you get interrupted due to the fact that they lose the sight of you, however this buggs and casts doesn't get interrupted, hence you die, or get caught in a cc.
disengage is easily abused by either stunning, fearing, charging, rooting etc at the same time i press it or right before i jump, and i won't move one inch. if you fear me and i disengage (tho on my screen i'd be feared 20yd away from you, talking about priest fear) i'd RUN back to the spot i disengaged from and THEN start moving like a feared character).

Just picking a few example. Yes KILL SHOT is great, but there is a 0.5-1sec delay on it, and its a KILL shot. Sure it does insane damage if it critts, mine does 5-12k depending on class it hits. Chimera shot does alot of damage as well, however just as much as lava burst, chaosbolt, shatter combo, envenom, shield slam, bladestorm etc... its all the same in dmg. Why hunter is focused so much is because our damage might be the most rapid one, we can put ALOT of damage really FAST into one target, comparable to ele or destro... Hunters damage is alot more avoidable tho, hunters are shit easy to lock down if you play it properly, ofc its also map dependant.
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#34 Felic

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:10 PM

ey man, i upranked you for being funny
wanna get downranked for being constructive? i wanna see cries with l2play in 1 sentence

i play x / y / z setup
x is weak vs a (especially if we abuse 600-700resi cause its good vs b,c,d)
y is weak vs a
z is average vs a
b,c,d are strong against a
--------------------------
nerf a


I know, I just had a moment of weakness there rofl.. Apperently it payed off, got my 3rd green blob lol, wasnt even trying to :-D I guess you actually get +rep if you dont troll all the time huh? Always thought it was a bad thing lol

Edit: ps you can see what -rep you get from having a priest on you ass that didnt like you
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:o i didnt c wat u did thar, could you explain for us dumb ppl?


#35 Guest_Shizzle_*

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:12 PM

You´re summin it up quite okey, though i have to say that its not only hunter damage that is obscene, just about every class does just as sick damage, (ie damage is an issue, but its not a hunter issue per se). Combine a ele shaman destro lock or even frostmage with something that locks down so they can burst and you´re going to see the same kind of damage, hey even just combining 2 melee and you´re going to see it. Once again damage is too high for just about every class, its NOT JUST HUNTERS.


Yeah I know, but that's just the sad state of WoTLk pvp according to me, can't expect them to change everything. It's kind of the same with the casters that you included in your example tho, if you can dispell a destruction warlocks immolate for example you take away a huge amount of their damage potential. This will be fixed if blizzard implements that every class gets dispell like they said they will in Cata, but same here I think it should be done in some other way then just giving everyone dispell since it kind of takes away the point of having a dispeller in your team etc, ruins the "uniqueness" of a class if you want to put it that way.

That's why I'd like to see them trying to fix it on the hunters end instead of giving everyone abolish poison, even if I'd love being to get away from rogues etc and all that it would just feel a bit silly. Better trying to get a proper way of fixing it and at the same time removing the problems that I have seen some people whine about against teams that just remove serpent sting and disable the hunters ability to put out any pressure (Don't know if this is true tho haven't tested myself I'm just going after what I've seen on the forums so could be wrong ofc).
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#36 zhecar

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:14 PM

7 season of rmp being dominate and they being countered by something they go qq


Only current situation counts when it comes to balancing.

Talking about RMP you often hear something similar to
"You've been overpowered for x seasons, now it's others turn"
Oh come on, thats not balancing.


OT I think Hydra got a point, though it's good to have setups which softcounter RMP. (There always where some though, it's never been like RMP has no counters)
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#37 Lolflay

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:18 PM

All these walls of texts pointed at the fact hunters are not op - just silly.

I'll get downrepped for this ( and frankly I don't care, I'm playing a spec which was/is shit for quite some time, and even when it was shit it had few situations where it was really grossly overpowered and I even said it wasn't fine - for example warriors barely getting to point where they had 20 rage in TBC and not scratching me at all for up to two to three minutes while we're killing his druid ), but hunters are able to do some RIDICIOLUS damage while having a CC combo which is fucking retarded at most times ( scatter into freezing trap, you're out of game for ~10 seconds ), and if they're paired with a lock you can expect a 20 second CC chain under which they can kill something even if they're handless and just rolling their head over their damage binds.

Hunters are not overpowered, they're ok - however you've got some highlights where your class is absolutely fucking retarded - snake trap, while stuck in a freezing trap on the floor, damage being spammed onto you, and if for example a class wants to swap onto a hunter, melee - he'll just elegantly disengage on other side of freezing trap, and if it's a dangerous caster he can just LoS the cast or ask his partner to stop it.

Just because 90% of hunters don't know how to play, it doesn't mean your class should be granted instant gratification as it was the case for deathknights, paladins and you yourself back in season 5.
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#38 Mitearidon

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:19 PM

he is 100% right. the low representation is due to the following reasons:

1# the hunter class does not appeal to that many players. most people find the class boring to play. (not a hunter-flame. it's just the general opinion amongst people playing this game)

2# very few people playing hunter can actually play.


I'm NOT SAYING YOU ARE SHIT just because you're a hunter. don't get me wrong. but overall the "skilled" hunters are a very rare breed.

there is NOTHING wrong with the hunter class as far as utility, burst, cc & survivability goes. it is over the top imo. regardless if I play my mage, lock(!), shaman or dk... hunters are the LAST thing I want to face in any bracket. like someone stated earlier, it feels like going against a ranged arms warrior.


many people would argue that my main, a mage, is just as overpowered. I do feel mages are strong now, yes. we're in a better place than we've ever been (even s1-s2). but they are not as strong as hunters played at the same level tho. not at all.
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Shadowmourne is fine


All the people against it are just as biased aswell


PROTECT THE ORANGES AT ALL COST!!!

#39 Ampd

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:27 PM

I play with a Hunter and have always played with one since S3. There is absolutely no way that they are underpowered at all, they could use nerfs, but not as much as some other classes... at all.
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#40 Kubuss

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 03:34 PM

Well i agree with you Felic. Hunter damage is quite over the top, mostly agaist cloth classes and in most cases mages especially. However as Felic just stated hunters cc / survivability is quite bad and filled with buggs.
Hunters CC is basically the most easily avoidable and rng based out of all classes. Conclusion, we have to wait 30 seconds in order to throw a "solid" trap, and by solid i mean scatter (just to be a little bit more assured you will hit your target) and trap. Scatter is RNG based on movement, if some other cc is currently on a target, lets say fear, the target will run away from the actual trap due to the fact that fear makes your character run faster. You simply need 1 second interruption between the scatter and the aiming of the trap, lets say a charge? shadowfury stun? gauge? poly? fear? disarm? silence? charge?.. or wait lets just have ur teamm8 stand on the scattered person to take the trap (GG!). On top of that we have to think about the trap not resisting, not bug, aimed properly, timed perfectly. Hence it is one of the most risky CC in game, feel free to argue, however you will lose (unless you are a retard who thinks your right cause ur mom told you to believe in urself).

Survivability is quite failing as well due to our key-abilities to survive, like masters call, deterrence, disengage, fd, scatter shot, silence shot (all of these are not defensive abilities but they do fail). Scatter and silence shot fail due to a macro bug, what it does is that it shoots the scatter at the current target when you are using focus macro, on a different focused target. Now that would make me unable to cc for about 30 seconds?.. or simply die cause LOL 10k chaosbolt.
Deterrence fails becuase you can so easily get fucked through it anyhow, disarm fucks it all up, u can get stunned, cc'd, killed through it.. some argue that you pop it to late, but how can it be that i pop deterrence and i get killed form a lava burst that comes through deterrence on the 4th second of the duration of 5 seconds?.. It doesn't remove any current dots either so warlocks / sp shit on hunters so hard its not even funny. IF i get cc'd in a deterrence it wont work at all, they can completely abuse the hunter. By stunning, killling, disarming, cc-ing or w/e. Masters call doesn't work properly as it buggs 10-15% of the times, mostly on ROV (100% if your pet buggs, u need to spend 1-20 seconds trying to get it of the elevator, or you have to do a 5 sec interruptable pet removal to call it back during arena vs wiz cleave, yes.. totally doable) but that's due to the elevator bug.
FD should make your enemies incoming casts etc on you get interrupted due to the fact that they lose the sight of you, however this buggs and casts doesn't get interrupted, hence you die, or get caught in a cc.
disengage is easily abused by either stunning, fearing, charging, rooting etc at the same time i press it or right before i jump, and i won't move one inch. if you fear me and i disengage (tho on my screen i'd be feared 20yd away from you, talking about priest fear) i'd RUN back to the spot i disengaged from and THEN start moving like a feared character).

Just picking a few example. Yes KILL SHOT is great, but there is a 0.5-1sec delay on it, and its a KILL shot. Sure it does insane damage if it critts, mine does 5-12k depending on class it hits. Chimera shot does alot of damage as well, however just as much as lava burst, chaosbolt, shatter combo, envenom, shield slam, bladestorm etc... its all the same in dmg. Why hunter is focused so much is because our damage might be the most rapid one, we can put ALOT of damage really FAST into one target, comparable to ele or destro... Hunters damage is alot more avoidable tho, hunters are shit easy to lock down if you play it properly, ofc its also map dependant.


i can't believe you actually believe what you're writing.
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