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African Turtle Cleave ~Team Strats~


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#1 Khanitus

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:21 PM

I'd like to open with the fact that blizzard does not know how to balance this game. There has never been a season where one or two lineups have not had a severe advantage over the rest. That being said I would greatly appreciate if the all the angry casters would not post about how OP prots are, we know and we have heard your argument. You didn't stop playing :druid::warlock: or :priest::rogue::mage: in burning crusade just bc others said you were OP so please don't expect me to. This thread is to help hunters that are looking for a new FoTM, which I personally think that draek and i have found.

G34r1n9: http://www.wowarmory...Hand&n=Khánitus

~1000 resil - The only target that can be ridden for a kill is the hunter, so I wear a solid amount of resil to keep me up
~6400 ap buffed
~40% crit
~7% hit

Spec & Pets: Spider as SV, other specs and pets on my armory are for lols / pve. Spider for the clutch ranged snare / cheesy pet name (Charlotte). Survival bc i'm terrible atm at marks due to serpent getting dispelled, me ragin over it, and refusing to learn to play it better. Also Surv bc sharing dr on silences messes up my warriors lock out on swaps. The lack of melee control you have with traps being 8 secs longer and having no wyvern makes surv seem like a better spec for the combo.

STRATS

I'm not going to write a strat for every team ever created but here is a few that have given us trouble in the past and what we do to take home the win.

vs :rogue::mage::priest: we do decently... if it's a good team they can land a kill on the hunter or the druid so be ready with RoS and Master's call on the focused targets. Our basic strat is i ride the mage stopping any poly's he casts with Los if its on me, or scatter be silence wyvern if my warrior is target to help draek keep dpsing. We make swaps to the rogue when he comes out of evasion or to the priest him he gets too close to the druid pressuring him with fears. Also if the priest finds his way into the open to start turreting mana burns on your druid, this is a great time to switch. On swaps get them as low as you can and once they start gettin topped off back on the mage to force him to continue to play defensively.

vs :druid::warlock:(aff):warrior: open on warrior with interupts on fear, again los'ing the ones on yourself and cd's to protect partners. Force a shield wall and swap to the druid with full stuns if he's in the open or hit the lock till you can hit the druid in the open or get back on the warrior once his shield wall falls off. If you shut down the warriors damage the lock cant out pressure the team if you are stopping his cc and slowing his dps when he's on the hunter with los'ing. If the druid is playing super defensively hiding around pillars ect making a swap to the warlock is also acceptable. If he keeps his pet next to him instead of on your healer open with a shockwave on both the warlock and his pet and make a coordinated switch on vent to the pet. He will most likely port and rez a new one which is a great time to start raping on the warrior again.

vs :hunter::deathknight::paladin: We originally started on the hunter but we had problems with him getting to line of site too easily / kiting the warrior. So instead we go on the DK who is a very good target to kill once you burn through his cooldowns. The reason we choose the dk is forced into the open to kill our team so its easy for both of our dps to be on him.. When we attack the hunter off the bat draek can be easily kited in a frost trap with web's stuns and chains. When we make swaps to the hunter it's when we have the dk in a defensive position and freedom is on cd. We lead web's and into stuns, to help insure that draek can get damage into the hunter b4 he starts getting kited. These kind of swaps on the hunter are only if his position gets too offencive leaving him in the open far from los. Main strat is to get on the dk to force ibf and ams then swap to the pally and get his bubble then back to the dk or the hunter depending on their positioning.

vs :deathknight::warrior::paladin: Open on the warrior while ccing the dk with swaps to pally. keeping the dk cc'ed while the warrior is playing offensive is the key here. first on the opening charge scatter frost trap entrapment into cyclone while at the same time forcing the warrior to shield wall. Then make a hard swap to the pally forcing bubble, then back on the warrior and ccing the dk. The only time they should get a kill is during their bladestorm stangulate combo, which is easily countered with Roar of Sacrifice and Safeguard(intervene) from the warrior.

vs :paladin:(ret):warrior::druid: open on the warrior with scatter entrapment wyvern cyclones on the ret locking down his damage with cc and kiting is key. Force shield wall /shield block on the warrior while watching the druid for swaps when he's in the open (charge shieldbash silence conc shockwave) usually will force a barkskin then back to the warrior for a kill, if he has a cd from his partners he might live. If not.. swap to the druid again and you should get a kill unless they have a bop. Just keep working those to targets and you should leave with a win. Use Roar when wings and/or bladestorm is being used.

vs :paladin:(ret):hunter::druid: Same thing as the warrior team, just use web on the hunter before the stuns, again to help make sure the warrior doesnt get kited too hard. This isn't as important as the hdkp team bc your warrior should stick to the hunter with out Chains of Ice slowing him down coupled the hunter not having freedom. Make swaps to the druid for barkskin then hunter then druid ect.. each swap should get you close to a kill just try to do it with stuns and LnL remember stacking disarm(hunter) and black arrow for a 16% increase in damage along with no deterrence. Make sure you are ready to LOS wiht your healer vs ret hunter teams bc they can dump a ton of into other hunters. So don't be over zealous with your positioning.

vs :mage::warlock::druid: This has been one of the hardest comps for us to play against. If the lock is ua, which most will be now, we open on him while ccing the mage's poly's with los and scatters and wyverns leading into cyclones. Once the warriors stun cd's come back up we look for an opening on the druid and make a hard swap with stuns. Once barkskin is used then back on the warlock looking for swaps to the pet from shockwave. Another way to play this is pressuring the mage and los'ing/ccing the lock with swaps to the druid. This only works if the mage doesn't deadzone the warrior in nova's, you can counter this by staying at the right range for your warrior to intervene out then charge the mage. At any time during this match your warrior gets sheeped be ready to los hard untill he comes out and can start peeling their dps.

vs :shaman::warlock::paladin: Start on the warlock with interupts on the shaman's burst, again with los and cc leading into cyclones. The paladin is the swap target vs this combo but be quick about it. Force a bubble or get off him leaving 2 casters open can lead to a dead teamate very fast. Don't go for kills on the locks pet if he is destro, doing so releases pressure allowing the two 20k burst combos to start to be lined up when you can get a kill when their pet is still up.

"The most important thing to remember when you're switching around is DO NOT TUNNEL HEALERS. They're going to pillar you and your partner almost immediately, and unless you're playing with a Rogue or an Arms warrior, chasing behind the pillar can cost you a win. Your first switch is virtually guaranteed to trigger Barkskin or Pain Suppression, and your only goal after that is to get 5x sunders up and then switch back to a DPS target. Remember, you should be pressuring whatever target your abilities will most effectively lower the DPS of. Hunters will kite you and Ele Shamans will tank you. They are not good targets; even though you can interrupt Ele shaman spells, your team won't put out good pressure and the healer will start CCing/Dispelling to take control of the game." -Draek, WorldofMing

For a warrior's guide to African Turtle Cleave (much better written) see http://wowriot.gamer...-African-turtle

P.S. REMOVE RoV! NONE LIKES IT + TOO MANY BUGS = GET IT THE FUCK OUT OF THE GAME!

TY for the support/hate it's what keeps me playing!! Feel free to send me PM's if you are to shy or too n00b to post on this forum! It's about time hunters got a FOTM amirite?

Sorry for the shitty writing/spelling/grammer ima math major :P

Happy Hunting
~Khánitus~

+++
:hunter::warlock::druid: play this one mildly defensive open on the lock with cc's on the hunter scatter -> cyclones. Once you have used your cd's look for a swap to the druid and cyclones on the lock. If this isnt available do to the druid playing super defensive losing and the hunter has overplayed his position you can put some pressure on him until you have cd's back up for the warlock. Remember that hunter destro dps can be very deadly in a short amount of time so be ready to los and stay in intervene LoS of your warrior so he can get to a pillar w/o wasting major defensive cds.

:rogue::warlock::shaman: Open on the lock w/o stuns off the bat and try to get the rogue out of stealth with flares track hidden and warrior shouts. Once the rogue opens get on him with a stun lock out till he uses evasion then get back on the lock for 15 secs then to the rogue with stuns back to the lock and finally to the rogue. Your cc should be on the lock when you make switches to the rogue and cyclones on the rogue should be made when he evasions. Something to keep in mind kiting away from their shaman opens up your druid from cyclones, and takes the lock away from his port. Also clutch intervenes from the pet/warrior destroy this team along with getting in combat asap considering the majority of the battle vs rls is in the opener and 45 secs after that

To all the haters... I know im not the best hunter in the world, but I am doing my best to get a solid combo, no matter how other players perceive it, out into brackets so that hunters can enjoy wow again. For one season I'm trying to help hunters have fun playing a combo that can get #1 in a bg, granted its not bg9. I think that Jhazy is running my comp as MM with a pally @ around a 90% winloss on bg9. If you want to follow a real hunter playing a solid comp on a legit bg he's the man to idle, not me. I'm just a lowly pawn that brought the battle plan to the masters, they will be the ones who bring out the OP'ness of my, well thier new comp. Looking forward to reading his guide on how to play this new fotm!

GL to all the noobies trying this and the best of luck to Jhazy on bg9!
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#2 Scarie

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:23 PM

first
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#3 Palfighter

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:24 PM

Stop with the stupied team name pleas

Ps: i liked the effort u layed put to this strategy guide
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Warrior/Paladin s1-s4
Hunter/paladin S5
Warrior/elementalshamman/paladin S6

#4 Khanitus

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:25 PM

uh im the african draek is the turtle and cleave bc its wotlk makes sense to me
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#5 Felic

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:35 PM

Doesnt :P
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:o i didnt c wat u did thar, could you explain for us dumb ppl?


#6 Khanitus

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:38 PM

w/e back on topic plx
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#7 Biggnome

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:41 PM

Thanks. Rolling prot now. Cya @ rank 1 next week :D
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by the way, it's RMP, not PMR


So if your from US and still saying PMR, your doing it wrong!

#8 Namakaokahai

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:45 PM

What a surprise


i lold
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#9 Khanitus

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:48 PM

marks is actually the less skilled spec imo similar to destro vs ua keeping pressure and swaps using a 22 sec internal unseen cd is alot harder the keeping serpent sting up on 2 targets and swapping in between with a much simpler rotation that can be easily altered, 2 deterrence in case you waste the first one. its not that i can't play it @ 2800 its that i play better as surv and its what works better with the team.


brb making 2nd thread for ppls to take their shot @ me lol
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#10 Ghouse

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:54 PM

your WLD strat says something about a pally, i assume you meant their warrior?
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#11 NiceHealz

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 08:56 PM

Nice post.

Wouldn't 10% more AP for the warrior, more frontload damage, an extra disarm & an extra silence (even though it's DR'd w/ warrior shield bash) be better than survival for this comp?
Other than longer trap duration & Wyvern sting, what would the surv hunter bring that a marks hunter couldn't do better.
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#12 Khanitus

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:04 PM

your WLD strat says something about a pally, i assume you meant their warrior?


fixed
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#13 Levidian

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:08 PM

Nice post.

Wouldn't 10% more AP for the warrior, more frontload damage, an extra disarm & an extra silence (even though it's DR'd w/ warrior shield bash) be better than survival for this comp?
Other than longer trap duration & Wyvern sting, what would the surv hunter bring that a marks hunter couldn't do better.


Hunters don't have a disarm man. I wish people would quit bringing that up.

If we want to our damage for 10 seconds + use multiple globals to disarm someone we can but it's completely pointless 99% of the time. The only time it ever makes any sense for a hunter to disarm is when they've already won 3v2 and you're just trying to guarantee they don't get a counter kill.
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#14 Khanitus

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:10 PM

Nice post.

Wouldn't 10% more AP for the warrior, more frontload damage, an extra disarm & an extra silence (even though it's DR'd w/ warrior shield bash) be better than survival for this comp?
Other than longer trap duration & Wyvern sting, what would the surv hunter bring that a marks hunter couldn't do better.


ty. 10% ap sounds very important but its the worst stat for a prot warrior so it would be a minor change in damage output. the disarm is a smaller duration then wyvern, vs most characters with a weapon chain or talent, and it takes 2 gcds and alot of my burst compared to the one gcd and no damage loss. the silence is decent vs double caster teams but it doesnt provide any support vs double melee teams that can zerg down our druid.

surv has more survivability, higher sustained damage, better overall controll of the map, a smaller cd on disengage, infinite mana for long games which are inevitable and personally it fits my play style more
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#15 Ragerlis

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:19 PM

surv has more survivability


Nah

But survival is better playing setups without magic dispell.

Any peel to save the druid against cleaves is a must, there is no reason to bring one skill(silence) if warrior already do it, obviously can be better against spell cleaves, but its not gamebreaking.

Its like playing shaman hunter at 2v2, survival is better, priest hunter or druid hunter marks is better, this team cant avoid magic ccs(Except from stupids aoe spell reflects), so wyvern is a good call.
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#16 energyzetwo

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:22 PM

this comp has strats? based on draeks video i assumed it was spam buttons and back peddle until someone was dead
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I think it's a lot better to spread aids everywhere


#17 acuria

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 09:29 PM

this comp has strats? based on draeks video i assumed it was spam buttons and back peddle until someone was dead

.
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Have not played since wrath. month late into xpac. what the fuck happened to horde. mine as well faction change.

#18 Loincloth

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:30 PM

Good guide and Im actually probably going to be cheesing it with one of my friends Prot warriors in the beginning of next season, and while you have played the comp and might argue that survival might be better for the comp you yourself basically admitted that you're bad at MM and then turn around and try to promote yourself by saying that MM is the less skilled spec by comparing it to destro as opposed to UA?......

First of all anyone who thinks survival is hard in any way is kidding themselves, second, the fact that your warrior can keep something in place while you tee off on them with 3 explosive shits and aimed shot serpent dispell w/e in between is nothing compared to what affliction has to do with managing dots with durations while making sure dispell protection is active on the correct target, haunting to keep themselves up, micro'ing a pet that silences and dispells teammates, and making sure they correctly utilize a spammable cc... the only comparison you can make between a survival hunter and a affliction lock is that you do damage over time.... but you do yours with essentially 1 button and dropping a frost trap on cd. I appreciate the effort you put into making the guide and ill probably be reading through it again before I play with a prot if I decide to do so but your true colors kind of came out when you tried to justify what is essentially a ranged ret pally spec by saying it requires skill..

Cheers though and again thanks for taking the time to make the guide
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#19 Alloraan

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 10:47 PM

You seriously need web so that your warrior can get on something?
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#20 aspectz

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Posted 21 December 2009 - 11:35 PM

marks is actually the less skilled spec imo similar to destro vs ua keeping pressure and swaps using a 22 sec internal unseen cd is alot harder the keeping serpent sting up on 2 targets and swapping in between with a much simpler rotation that can be easily altered, 2 deterrence in case you waste the first one. its not that i can't play it @ 2800 its that i play better as surv and its what works better with the team.


o
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