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SS Nerf Logic (Blue)


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#201 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:25 AM

we have to gem spell pen because blizzard havent gave us any through gear, so we cant gem ArP

gear: we need hit rating, so we cant take ArP pvp ring and neck

that means we have to take PVE gear, then we get 2shot even faster

things just dont add up:

to even think that we should stack ArP, we need some hit and spell pen standard on pvp gear so we have some space for ArP gemming


lol spell pent doesnt take up every gem. and u should only need 1 hit gem if any.
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#202 tafu

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:26 AM

its already been said multiple times that some stats are getting removed from the game, gearable arpen for example will significantly lower warriors dmg vs higher armor targets, and explosive shot got its nerf in season 6 chimera shot is lowered quite a bit by armor as many hunters can tell u, and time will probably see envenoms calculation being changed to not be so heavily magic based or have a higher resist chance like dks and hunters had added to there armor ignoring attacks.

besides ss hits 2 classes for somewhat lower dmg ..still far from to low for a good team to kill them, but it still hits us clothies for way to much, if i find a good dk ill try and grab a screen shot for a 9k ss on SL with 1171 res


You're proving my point for me. The new SS is way overpowered vs. clothies, but far too underwhelming vs. high armored targets.

And the fact that stats will be changed in cata doesn't help us at all now, does it? Especially right at the end of the damn season.
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#203 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:27 AM

Handed to them on a silver platter? You're a warrior, you have a spell interrupt and don't have to use it even ONCE to kill a healer in equal gear to you.

DK's have to throw every tool in their arsenal to kill a healer in equal gear to them. and that was PRE 3.3 Scourge strike.


What's your point with that?Have hybrid classes/dks not been babysat to hell in WOTLK because warriors are better at solo killing healers than death knights in arena situations?

What's next,death knights are generally overpowered because they're good at duels?These comparisons are worthless in this discussion.

The developers themselves have said that hybrids/new class have been their focus in WOTLK and everyone who's not close minded as fuck didn't need them to admit it to know it.The state of early wotlk(Or rather half wotlk) made a lot of people who played those classes imagining how things SHOULD be ,such as the "I must do 2x(now became 1.5 apparently?) the damage of an MS class",x hybrid class demanding that they form top 2v2 comps(which resulted in instagibbing players-or maybe you don't remember this) and other crap like that.
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#204 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:29 AM

just because you can bladestorm any person from 100 to 0 doesnt mean your good. go away
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#205 Typh

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:31 AM

lol spell pent doesnt take up every gem. and u should only need 1 hit gem if any.


but it takes slots up, if you take ArP and spell pen as your gems, you loose out on some STR, which makes all your other spells shitter, so whatever you gem, your in a loose/loose situation
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#206

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:35 AM

its really fucking dumb tbh, and the other sad thing is, scaling as a deathknight is terrible as fuck

if you have 2k AP more then another dk, you cant even tell the difference in damage

just to add in too, deathknights are one of the classes that get fucked over by resilience the most too, oh hi patch 3.3 lets give everyone 50 more resiliece through pvp sets, or elemental shamans 150 through double setbonus stacks.

how are we even going to think about dropping a elemental shaman when hes got like 1.3k resiliece+, mail armor and a shield, let alone all the plate which we 700+700 ss hit on


oh, and we cant get armor pen because we have to gem spell pen, n1


I always thought something as simple as a passive ability granting us passive spellpen would do a LOT. People often try to think too fully into class mechanics while forgetting about the basic stuff, to get a comparison I am just amazed by the stats warriors manage to get. Some of them are close to capping ArP passively, yet still have more or equal ap, simply because they have a talent in tier 1 which gives the same ap as the tier 2 blood talent, while it costs them 3 talents against 5 for us, and we have to gem spellpen. The 95 spellpen we get from gems are equal to 76 str which isn't negligible at all. I have yet to see a DK with the kind of stats warrior gets.
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#207 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:38 AM

but it takes slots up, if you take ArP and spell pen as your gems, you loose out on some STR, which makes all your other spells shitter, so whatever you gem, your in a loose/loose situation

ok with my current gem options, im going with 4 spell pent gems with back enchant, 1 hit gem on shoulders and 1 orange somewhere for meta...replacing all str gems for arp, gains about 6-9% arp(im a jc and heroic rings)...needle scorpion trinket, plus deathbringers will gives arp chance and a high base ap with chanace to increase crit or str or arp for some more rng dmg, titanium spikegaurds bracers, and tier 10 shoulders and helm and your looking at 750 resilience 30-40% arp as a human...those are my stats at least and im not the best around...
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#208 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:42 AM

but it takes slots up, if you take ArP and spell pen as your gems, you loose out on some STR, which makes all your other spells shitter, so whatever you gem, your in a loose/loose situation


also why'd you go arp on a dk? I have not done any maths and it's better for us warriors but:
+We have way less magic damage than you(str affects dots etc)
+You have fallen crusader which makes str scale better than it does for us (dont think you would go ciderglacier with arp gemming)
+STR gives damage to your ghoul and most important to gargoyle which people seem to underestimate

this is no replacement for math however,someone should pick a realistic gear set and do a str vs arp point for point comparison to see if it's worth it gemming arp in the first place(which i doubt for the reasons stated)
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#209 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:43 AM

you can still maintian high str and get armor pent...if all the warriors can do it why cant we

i mean im sitting on 2901 top dmg with horn, im sure 200 top dmg wont kill me for some arp
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#210 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:46 AM

you can still maintian high str and get armor pent...if all the warriors can do it why cant we

i mean im sitting on 2901 top dmg with horn, im sure 200 top dmg wont kill me for some arp


because warriors don't shoot deathcoils and have pets? I made a list up there

someone should do the math,we had plenty of people numbercrunching on the warrior forum when str vs arp was still in debate (including doing my own maths for myself)
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#211 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:48 AM

i'm building my set atm, as soon as i have the gear i can do it for you.
but thats what im going atm and if it doesnt work i dont see another choice for unholy
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#212 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:49 AM

and 400 ap wont kill your deathcoil and pet dmg
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#213 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:51 AM

also every 170 str? gives 1% parry before dr (which are negligible in pvp gear)
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#214 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:53 AM

so -1.5%parry rating for 9% arp isnt worth it?
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#215 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:53 AM

i dont see what your getting at
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#216 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:59 AM

and 400 ap wont kill your deathcoil and pet dmg


also arp gets better per point the more you get

i'd bet money str is better for death knights

if you get 10% arp while keeping the same ap it's a 3.5% damage increase against the armor of a pvp geared warrior
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#217 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 02:59 AM

you know i have a feeling im getting trolled here
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#218 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 03:03 AM

your not being trolled, dont worry hehe
what im trying to say is STRENGTH WAS the best stat for dks, and now our dmg sucks this is an optional gear choice for dks to try out and im hoping someone else can get gear faster then i can to test it but im working on it...strength is easily still a good stat for dks, but now it seems we have to do a 4 way balance on different stats :/
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#219 Powerslave

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 03:04 AM

I'd bet money str is overall better if someone did the math

for the average dk anyway
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#220 Squishyflap

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 03:06 AM

when going for glad you dont want just the average stats hehe, and atm if were all gemmed and geared str and our dmg is shit now we obviously need to change something
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