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why are we stacking haste?


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#21 daays

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 08:56 PM

i dont know where your getting your numbers from but 150 haste which is all three off pieces only gives you about 4.8% haste. I dont know how the belt and bracers from ToC can give you 20% alone.


Bracers of Autumn Willow
Belt of Pale thorns
Relentless Gladiator's Blade of Celerity
Relentless Gladiator's Compendium
Titan-Forged Band of Ascendancy
12sp/10haste gems x8

Total 322 haste = 9.82%

Add in the 10% haste from GotEM and 1% from Celestial Focus and you're at 20.82%

In the mean time, with the new set bonus changes, you'll have 2850+ SP while keeping 900 resilience.

I'm a JC/enchanter so I'll have

6.1% hit
121 spell pen
2923 SP
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#22 natureswill

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 08:59 PM

again, doest seem worth it
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#23 daays

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:02 PM

again, doest seem worth it


Whatever you wanna think. I actually don't sacrifice any spell power with my build

Honestly, and I know many people will disagree, but SP is feeling more and more like mp5.

It's good on paper, but in practice, it's different.

Quick example, mp5 sounds good on paper. More mana over the course of the fight, more chances you get at casting spells. The only thing is fights end quickly(most are 2-4mins) and rarely run longer than that. So for 99% of the fights, you're not running out of mana. So stacking mp5 isn't that useful as mana isn't an issue.

Spell power is going in the same way imo. Right now, I could have 3500sp and my hots still wouldn't be able to keep someone up from a focus fire. So that leaves you with the option to either nourish, cyclone, or root.
Now CCing the target is better in almost every way, as you prevent more damage than you could heal with nourish.( let alone they now are free to do what they want)
But let's say you nourish. It doesn't matter that you have 300 less spell power now. All that matters is that you're casting nourish. You're buying time for the person to get out of range, LoS, have cooldowns back up, for their team to get off DR for CC, etc.
Healing for 6k instead of 6300 doesn't mean much.

So as far as I'm concerned it's gonna be

Hit/spell pen > haste > spell power

Trying out a stam build though atm. Wanting to see if teams who see a druid with 33k hp will swap to me or not. Let alone if having the extra HP during the swaps buys my team enough time to peel.


Still waiting for someone to logically dispute this.
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#24 Arrann

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:08 PM

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#25 Triceps

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:11 PM

still kinda failthread
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#26 Drikor

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:11 PM

Its personal preference I guess, but I agree with Daays, Haste will be fucking awesome.
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#27 inhume

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:14 PM

the only problem with the whole haste argument is its taking instance by instance instead of looking at a whole. yes, at one point healing for 300 more isn't going to make the difference but over time the multiple healing for 300 more could make the difference. basically take haste if you value short term investments and take spell power if you prefer the long-term investments.
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#28 daays

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:16 PM

the only problem with the whole haste argument is its taking instance by instance instead of looking at a whole. yes, at one point healing for 300 more isn't going to make the difference but over time the multiple healing for 300 more could make the difference. basically take haste if you value short term investments and take spell power if you prefer the long-term investments.


What is long term in your opinion?

Almost every 3v3 fight is over within 3mins.
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#29 neener69

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:48 PM

Bracers of Autumn Willow
Belt of Pale thorns
Relentless Gladiator's Blade of Celerity
Relentless Gladiator's Compendium
Titan-Forged Band of Ascendancy
12sp/10haste gems x8

Total 322 haste = 9.82%

Add in the 10% haste from GotEM and 1% from Celestial Focus and you're at 20.82%

In the mean time, with the new set bonus changes, you'll have 2850+ SP while keeping 900 resilience.

I'm a JC/enchanter so I'll have

6.1% hit
121 spell pen
2923 SP

just wondering what gems u will be using
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#30 Kluian_

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 09:52 PM

Remember haste will also close the gap between your rejuv application and first tick if you use the glyph. It also closes the gap between when you can give someone a rejuv and swiftmend right after. However, keep in mind you need uptowards 850 haste and in a PvE raid environment to see Rejuv go down from a 3 second tick to 2 seconds.

I haven't played resto in arena in a while, but the apparent downfall is when your opponents switch to targets that don't have hots. The quicker you get the hots up (and the faster rejuv ticks) the better you'll probably be off. Getting CC's off quicker isn't too shaby either.

The only bad side to haste is the possible effect of running yourself oom quicker, but as long as your not overhealing too much you're prolonging your teams survival.

I'm guessing a majority of PvP druids will push for the ~364 haste benchmark to atleast soft cap their gcd on lifebloom. (364 haste if they don't have any talents in celestial focus). Also with this haste (and if speced into GotEM + Rejuv glyph), rejuv will tick every ~2.5 seconds.

Remember haste will also close the gap between your rejuv application and first tick if you use the glyph. It also closes the gap between when you can give someone a rejuv and swiftmend right after. However, keep in mind you need uptowards 850 haste and in a PvE raid environment to see Rejuv go down from a 3 second tick to 2 seconds.

I haven't played resto in arena in a while, but the apparent downfall is when your opponents switch to targets that don't have hots. The quicker you get the hots up (and the faster rejuv ticks) the better you'll probably be off. Getting CC's off quicker isn't too shaby either.

The only bad side to haste is the possible effect of running yourself oom quicker, but as long as your not overhealing too much you're prolonging your teams survival.

I'm guessing a majority of PvP druids will push for the ~364 haste benchmark to atleast soft cap their gcd on lifebloom. (364 haste if they don't have any talents in celestial focus). Also with this haste (and if speced into GotEM + Rejuv glyph), rejuv will tick every ~2.5 seconds.

*edit* Soft cap on LB with GotEM is actually around 734 haste. Was thinking you had 8% more haste but that is PvE buffs.
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#31 Paxton

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 11:11 PM

While the Rejuv glyph may be arguably good or bad, I could care less about it when it comes to the new haste changes. The rejuv glyph is not the reason to go haste.

Haste will now be viable because you're already getting a very good supply straight through talents which allows you to hit a noticeable amount without sacrificing other stats.

GotEM is going to feel like a small nerf for those who choose to stay away from haste because of the GCD bonus removed from WG/Rejuv. This is a fairly legit buff for those who are taking advantage of a bit of haste and not sacrificing much in exchange. There is just too many numerous advantages of lower GCDs and casts while there is only 1 for stacking SP.
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#32 Reliuna

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 12:33 AM

Why do people think they have to sacrifice like 500sp for 400haste?

I got 2800sp and 425 haste, the difference with haste gear is significant compared to using 0 haste. With this haste gear, playing double healer in 3v3 I can still use innervates on my priest sometimes since a druids mana effecienty isn't bad.

Playing 1 healer and using all innervates for yourself and having almost no games turn into mana battles there's less reason to not stack haste.

With 3.3 coming I would consider it somewhat dumb not to stack up haste.

In ToL + relic proc I got 3150sp.
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#33 neener69

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 01:22 AM

Why do people think they have to sacrifice like 500sp for 400haste?

I got 2800sp and 435 haste, the difference with haste gear is significant compared to using 0 haste. With this haste gear, playing double healer in 3v3 I can still use innervates on my priest sometimes since a druids mana effecienty isn't bad.

Playing 1 healer and using all innervates for yourself and having almost no games turn into mana battles there's less reason to not stack haste.

With 3.3 coming I would consider it somewhat dumb not to stack up haste.

In ToL + relic proc I got 3150sp.

i want ur belt lol but i hate pve:(
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#34 Ifix

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:04 AM

if you are a pve nerd like me,go for min maxing instead of reliuna's setup (imo) i used my 258 gear rather then relentless while using ress insig,ended about 50 sp undre him 70 haste (Not got haste book/dagger yet,will loose some sp for gemming spell pen,so i'll end up about 2700 spellpower (non tree,i'll have alot more in tree due to pve gear)with 450 haste,and about 250 mp5 while casting (Not counting solace.) while maintainign 870 ressilience.
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#35 mr.fabulous321

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:35 AM

I got a q, if we decide to use haste, what is a good number of haste to aim for? and what would be best way to achieve it, gems? gear? bm trinkets? enchants? etc...? what r u guys gunna do
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#36 inhume

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:48 AM

What is long term in your opinion?

Almost every 3v3 fight is over within 3mins.


long term is any fight that lasts long enough for each hot to take full effect rather than the instant effect of a healing spell. but since this is wotlk , haste looks like it'll be a lot more beneficial to gem haste rather than sp because everything is taken by the global in wotlk , rather than the series of actions. it all depends really how risque your partners are feeling every arena match. if you feel like your partner's aren't going to survive the extra .25 seconds, then you'd gem haste. if you feel like the .25 seconds doesn't matter every global, gem spell power/mana regen.
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#37 mr.fabulous321

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:55 AM

Think A sexy mana trinket will be nice for if your stacking haste, solace for example.
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#38 Kluian_

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 04:58 AM

I got a q, if we decide to use haste, what is a good number of haste to aim for? and what would be best way to achieve it, gems? gear? bm trinkets? enchants? etc...? what r u guys gunna do


With GotEM your gcd on lifebloom will be 1.227 . To soft cap that then you need 22.7% haste from other sources, which you probably won't do in PvP gear (~743 haste rating)
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#39 Innate

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 05:04 AM

The bigger question is, why do people need to sit an debate the same numbers and ideals over and over all day long? I realize this is arena junkies, but honestly, the pros and cons should be fairly obvious just by looking at the tradeoffs. If you think it suits your playstyle, try it out, the worst thing that could happen is you decide you don't like it and spend a bit of time and money re-gearing and re-gemming.

I'm only half-geared (don't really play much anymore so I'm gearing slowly) and I already really like the haste I have, I can only imagine how much more I will like it fully geared with the new talents.

Stop playing follow the leader, and just try things out for yourselves :)
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#40 Kelustu

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Posted 08 December 2009 - 05:46 AM

I'm going for haste neck/cloak/weapon/OH and SP/haste gems, but won't be bothered to pick up the rejuve glyph. I'm sticking with barkskin, innervate and swiftmend, and theres no way in hell i'm dropping swiftmend, and it would have to be a crazy good argument to get me to drop barkskin or innervate.
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