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Double Reign L.O.L.


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#21 Morgasaurus

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:50 AM

Still substantially less burst than troll mage with talisman


you really think that thing is worth using? I'm debating about replacing mine with even a 2nd battlemasters trinket since i can't get anything else :confused:
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#22 Klöjvert

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 07:53 AM

highfive
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#23 Abek

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:08 AM

aww man, I envy you. srsly fuck human mages =D

and the fact you actually have both drops...i would shit my pants if I had one Reign.
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:mage:

#24 Pownmeisterz

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:09 AM

you really think that thing is worth using? I'm debating about replacing mine with even a 2nd battlemasters trinket since i can't get anything else :confused:


If you have replenishment up, and use evocation fairly often, it comes out to 50-70 mp5, increases your crit by .75%, and it makes your on-demand burst way stronger.

Popping the trinket, it takes 2 crits to beat the burst of reign, every crit afterwards will be positive gain. Assuming you have popped full CDs, within about 5 seconds of non-crits, talisman is already better.

Any spec a mage goes, they will never be strong without CD stacking, especially frost. Frost does something like 2k sustained dps without popping CDs. You get a shatter off that does 10k total(that pic is a FFB mage in PvE gear on a molten fury target with no resil), which a healer will easily heal through. Arenas isn't a sustained dps race, its who can make the most of a short time frame.

Not to mention, those trinkets are insane for PvE because of the ridiculous crit rate mages have, you'll often have them proc once every 10 seconds. Now look at arenas, how often will they go off then? Every 20 seconds? No, every 30 seconds? Probably.
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#25 Ellonija

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:13 AM

I wish the mages/locks in my guild that had reigns were any good at pvp.

Sigh.

Oh, I wish they were human too.
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#26

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:19 AM

http://www.wowarmory...imonde&n=Yurory

used to play this priest when it had ulduar regen trinkets as draenei and i thought it was OP rofl

hadn't armoried her since totc came out but holy fucking shit LOL
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Believe it or not I'm a nice guy with a mild mannered personality. So no, i wouldn't "choke someone", even though my 6pack abs allow me to do that


#27

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:20 AM

so yeah, next time you complain about double pve trinkets keep in mind 1% of the people that have them are nim and the other 99% are in the 1800 bracket
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Believe it or not I'm a nice guy with a mild mannered personality. So no, i wouldn't "choke someone", even though my 6pack abs allow me to do that


#28 Duckfloatz

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:28 AM

hypez has em 2bad he is super pvenerdgaynow:XXXX
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#29 Gari

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:36 AM

so yeah, next time you complain about double pve trinkets keep in mind 1% of the people that have them are nim and the other 99% are in the 1800 bracket


To quote GC:

Official Blizzard Quote:

If we gave warriors (especially Prot warriors) an ability to cause 50,000 damage in one hit with no preparation on a 90-minute cooldown, most reasonable players would call that a balance problem. The long cooldown doesn't save it. Beyond some point you can't balance a very powerful ability just by increasing the cooldown.


Damn... never though to quote him, but he is right there, the massive CD or in this case the rarity or the diffuculty (due chance and lolPvE) of getting OP don't justify it. Nor does that most of the people that can get double trinket just don't care about arena.

As stated in other threads, EmfH has the potential of being grossly inbalanced and worse yet, it rewards raiders in arena, so it's also poorly designated. I don't especially want humans to be nerfed to a crap race, but cant really see any reason not to change a very badly thought racial.
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#30 Vilerose

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:39 AM

To quote GC:

Official Blizzard Quote:

If we gave warriors (especially Prot warriors) an ability to cause 50,000 damage in one hit with no preparation on a 90-minute cooldown, most reasonable players would call that a balance problem. The long cooldown doesn't save it. Beyond some point you can't balance a very powerful ability just by increasing the cooldown.


Damn... never though to quote him, but he is right there, the massive CD or in this case the rarity or the diffuculty (due chance and lolPvE) of getting OP don't justify it. Nor does that most of the people that can get double trinket just don't care about arena.

As stated in other threads, EmfH has the potential of being grossly inbalanced and worse yet, it rewards raiders in arena, so it's also poorly designated. I don't especially want humans to be nerfed to a crap race, but cant really see any reason not to change a very badly thought racial.

He's saying people are wrong to compare the human racial to the epidemic that is/was wotf due to the rarity of double toc trinkets.
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#31 Final

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:43 AM

And Garli is saying that that's an awful excuse because there is still 1% of players that can get those and abuse them. It's a dumb excuse to say "MOST PEOPLE WON"T GET THEM SO IT"S BALANCED"
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LOL

sig anyone?


#32 Grilldarksorrow

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:46 AM

Warglaives etc.
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#33 Vilerose

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:49 AM

And Garli is saying that that's an awful excuse because there is still 1% of players that can get those and abuse them. It's a dumb excuse to say "MOST PEOPLE WON"T GET THEM SO IT"S BALANCED"

The exact opposite argument could be made:
Can something be imbalanced if you never encounter it? (if a tree falls in the forest...)
It's not a perfect analogy, but you get the point.

According to every bandwagoneer out there, human racial is ridiculously overpowered.
There is nothing inherently overpowered about it, just poor implementation on Blizzard's part to allow stacking of the same trinket.
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#34 Gari

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:51 AM

And Garli is saying that that's an awful excuse because there is still 1% of players that can get those and abuse them. It's a dumb excuse to say "MOST PEOPLE WON"T GET THEM SO IT"S BALANCED"


Yeah, but he is right in saying that WotF changed more matches than EmfH. At least i do belive it, no way to prove it but most of us would agree.

I still think both should be changed, that or ALLOW ME TO GO HUMAN! :D

Don't get me wrong, i have loled hard at warstomping RPMs while my warr whirlwinds, but i hate my model and i crave double pve trinkets.
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#35 Final

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:51 AM

If that's the case. Let's give 1 australian ele shaman the power to instantly kill 1 player on the other team every game. Now assuming he queues at times when you never queue you never encounter him, but he's easily #1. Would this be considered balanced?
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LOL

sig anyone?


#36 almightykyle

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 08:52 AM

http://www.wowarmory...reaker&n=Rossii

http://www.wowarmory...ker&n=Dantonsus

and I'd gladly trade out a trinket each to have rossii's fear be useful vs undeads human racial is strong but I'd rather have 2 pvp trinkets versus virtually every team. I do agree they should tone down the human racial or at least make new wg trinkets with up to date stats somewhat in line with the pve alternatives
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#37 Gari

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:00 AM

There is nothing inherently overpowered about it, just poor implementation on Blizzard's part to allow stacking of the same trinket.


Nahh, not really, what happens when you get a better MP5 or burst DPS trinket next raid? What if the best 2 caster or melee burst are different like an ArP trinket + death veredict?

IMO, whats poor implementation on Blizz is to make PvE items BiS to PvP. The humans are just 1 step more free to take advantage of this, 1 step that ain't aviliable to every other race, and that step is huge (at least for healers a lot of Mp5 can come from the trinket), thus is OP.

TBH, i would rather just have PvP items being BiS for PvP, but since that is not going to happen, just a change of EmfH would be nice.
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#38 nim

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 09:20 AM

For starters let me make it clear I agree that something which is OP 1% of the time still needs to be nerfed and there's not doubt Blizzard agrees. Anyone remember when you could go into negative resists and it sometimes incurred crazy damage bonuses when hit? It's an old precedent.

Moving on, here's the problems as I see them in order of severity.

1. ToC Trinkets need to be nerfed ASAP. Double stacking them is crazy stupid. Humans are not the only Class able to abuse this, merely the most able. Depending on your comp and class it can be very worth using Double ToC, a Priest running Prolly/Priest/Warrior or an Ele Shaman in a 2346 team for example. One ToC trinket per person please.

2. Because of powerful Procs and on use abilities Trinket Slots are almost, if not as important as Weapon Slots. Since Season 1 Arena and PvP trinkets have been limited to an after thought. There must be a range of Arena and PvP trinkets available that are on par with the current raid content or those with access to PvE gear will have a significant advantage.

3a. The first problem with EmfH in this situation is that it scales. Rune of Audacity has 111 SP on it, the Scale of fates has 125. Only 14 more SP, but Reign jumps that lead up to 39 SP and who knows what Ice Crown holds. The easy fix to that side of the problem is above in my second point, keep the god damn PvP trinkets up to date.

3b. The real meat of EmfH is that it lets essentially choose your own Racial from whatever is available in the range of trinkets. Generally this isn't a huge deal, it really isn't. Before Reign the best trinkets a Human Mage could get for PvP were Scale and either Embrace of the Spider, Battle Master, or maybe Eye of Brood Mother. Since everyone gets one trinket in addition to their PvP trink your racial ability is, in essence, whatever the weakest of your two trinkets provides for you (since anyone can, and would use the more powerful of the two for their second slot). So pre 3.2 Human Mages either got a stacking Spell Power Buff, Last Stand or Haste Proc, none of which are staggeringly powerful. Nerf double ToC Trinkets and Human Casters are back to using one Reign and the Scale of Fates. Since any Mage would be using Reign no matter what the Human "Racial" becomes a Haste Clicky that's worse than the Troll Racial, no big deal.

TLDR: Want to Nerf EmfH? Get rid of double stacking ToC trinkets and provide PvPer's with trinket options that don't suck ass, problem solved.
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#39 Ellonija

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 11:06 AM

If that's the case. Let's give 1 australian ele shaman the power to instantly kill 1 player on the other team every game. Now assuming he queues at times when you never queue you never encounter him, but he's easily #1. Would this be considered balanced?


let that be me plz
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#40 Vidra

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 11:37 AM

If that's the case. Let's give 1 australian ele shaman the power to instantly kill 1 player on the other team every game. Now assuming he queues at times when you never queue you never encounter him, but he's easily #1. Would this be considered balanced?


i would 1v2 him, or 2v3 him, or 4v5 him
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