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*Ponders* A way to fix mages in pvp :)


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#1 Shotokan1087

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 06:14 AM

What if they juts gave us haste on pvp gear instead of crit :)?
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#2 Neverready

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 06:17 AM

What if they juts gave us haste on pvp gear instead of crit :)?


You guys are broken in pvp?
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#3 Shotokan1087

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 06:20 AM

i dont think we are broken but we woudlnt have to pve any more to get the haste we need :)
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#4 Neverready

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 06:29 AM

You technically don't NEED the haste you guys just all really want it!
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#5 Kaseolol

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 06:34 AM

If I'm not mistaken, there is gear with haste on it. They introduced new haste accessories this season along with haste weapon, off-hand, and wand. You can get Haste Legs, Ring, and Chest from Wintergrasp. So lolwut? No haste PvP gear? And also Mages are broken in PvP? lol
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#6 Shotokan1087

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 06:37 AM

i would like for us to have pvp haste avaible to us on all of our gear is that too much to ask for. i dont think we are broken by any means. the part it would fix would for us not having to pve to get the haste we need on gear
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#7 Russano

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 07:25 AM

I would likely wear 5/5 relentless if it was haste instead of crit, atm I don't wear any.
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#8 Madak

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 10:16 AM

The problem is that Frost Mages have too much survivability and not enough basic damage from the Frost tree imo. This allows/forces Frost Mages to whore PvE gear.

If Blizzard nerfed Frost Mage's random snare talents and increased Frost damage through a talent like Piercing Ice or Improved Frostbolt you'd have a PvP fix and a PvE fix at the same time. PvP Frost Mages wouldn't be able to get away with wearing 90% PvE gear and the spec would be more viable for raiding.

That's my 2c.

Also, at least the set bonus changes were a step in the right direction.
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#9 Kubuss

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 01:21 PM

You can get enough haste as it is now.
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#10 Hidden

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:09 PM

You can get enough haste as it is now.


Why are you wearing PvE items in half of your slots then?

There's a reason why absolutely every Mage is wearing some PvE items instead of his set items even if they're lower iLevel.
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#11 Malachim

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:18 PM

Ugh, not sure if I would use full haste gear on like all pieces and run with 45% crit against frozen targets.
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#12 Nocteo

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:20 PM

Ugh, not sure if I would use full haste gear on like all pieces and run with 45% crit against frozen targets.


You already got 50% from talents alone? ;p
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#13 Zarlino

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 01:23 PM

You already got 50% from talents alone? ;p


resilience
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#14 Affect

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 02:08 PM

The problem is that Frost Mages have too much survivability and not enough basic damage from the Frost tree imo. This allows/forces Frost Mages to whore PvE gear.

If Blizzard nerfed Frost Mage's random snare talents and increased Frost damage through a talent like Piercing Ice or Improved Frostbolt you'd have a PvP fix and a PvE fix at the same time. PvP Frost Mages wouldn't be able to get away with wearing 90% PvE gear and the spec would be more viable for raiding.

That's my 2c.

Also, at least the set bonus changes were a step in the right direction.


lol, you obviously have never played a mage. the reason mages have survivability is because people like you don't touch a mage because you are under the impression we are unkillable. while we aren't the greatest class to tunnel seeing as we have block, however if any melee class connects any type of dmg or hunter can shoot at us for 5-6 seconds they can easily solo us to block.
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#15 Jewpaci

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 02:10 PM

The problem is that Frost Mages have too much survivability and not enough basic damage from the Frost tree imo. This allows/forces Frost Mages to whore PvE gear.

If Blizzard nerfed Frost Mage's random snare talents and increased Frost damage through a talent like Piercing Ice or Improved Frostbolt you'd have a PvP fix and a PvE fix at the same time. PvP Frost Mages wouldn't be able to get away with wearing 90% PvE gear and the spec would be more viable for raiding.

That's my 2c.

Also, at least the set bonus changes were a step in the right direction.


Fuck you.

Edited by Houndus, 04 November 2012 - 10:41 AM.

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#16 Hidden

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 02:18 PM

Ugh, not sure if I would use full haste gear on like all pieces and run with 45% crit against frozen targets.


Not that it'd really matter but with zero crit rating you'd still have at least 50% crit if you consider in your crit from int and talents.

Assuming 50% crit on a frozen target and 20% crit damage reduction, you'd on average do (including CSD):
0.5+0.5*2.09*0.8=1.336 times the damage of a noncrit FB

An additional 327.9 Crit Rating (=7.41% crit) would increase that to:
0.429+0.571*2.09*0.8=1.384 times the damage of a noncrit FB

This results in an increase of:
1-1.384/1.336=0.036=3.6%

For the same budget you could also get 10% haste.

So, would you rather have 10% haste or an additional average 3.6% damage on your shatters?
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#17 affix

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 06:29 PM

You can get enough haste as it is now.


^ wearing 5 pieces of PvE gear, 4 have haste on them

houndus is right, this forum was a lot more interesting before a bunch of mages got decked out in PvE gear and started saying "nah our dmg is fine l2p"

(i know that's not what you said, kubuss, just sort of talking about this forum in general)
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#18 adanan

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 06:40 PM

anything dk and especially hunter dk god forbid marks hunter dk can deck mages. ppl tend to just not go for them anymore its prob just a tad harder but still very viable.

tsg does fine enhance used to do amazing still im sure wouldnt have THAT much of an issue sticking mages are balanced and having haste on main pieces might be overkill on the haste since icy veins is still used 2 times at least in a match when ur going for a kill.
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#19 Kubuss

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 06:47 PM

^ wearing 5 pieces of PvE gear, 4 have haste on them

houndus is right, this forum was a lot more interesting before a bunch of mages got decked out in PvE gear and started saying "nah our dmg is fine l2p"

(i know that's not what you said, kubuss, just sort of talking about this forum in general)


I was more talking to the OP(guess you figured that out already though!) - Haste on our PVP set would be overdoing it, let me rephrase: you can get enough haste as it is now - without using PVE gear. Haste on PVP offsets really helped alot in this.

I have to agree with what you're saying. My damage is pretty stupid sometimes, but it's mainly because of my PVE gear. Besides, most other classes do comparable damage in full PVP gear.

To the guy asking why I wear PVE gear in half my slots then: because I can get away with it. Without it my haste would still be alright - but with this gear it's quite insane.
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#20 affix

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 07:54 PM

My gear obviously isn't so great yet, but we played nothing but RMP, TSG, Beast Cleave and DK/Hunter/Pally last night and almost every team trained me the entire time, very successfully. The whole 'can't train a Mage' thing is sort of silly and really seems to be a comment directed towards RMP than Mages in general.
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