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[Warrior] Out of control?


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#161 Serinus

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 06:46 AM

Nice statistical analysis. I outdamaged DK against one team that was on the DK the whole time. I fail to see how that's more than 20% of my matches.

Your go.
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#162 Sp33d

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:56 AM

I hope you guys realize damage has nothing to do with how successful a class is in arenas.

Seriously - any given class brings a set of tools to arenas. Raw damage alone means very little. So who cares.
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#163 bawarriro

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:35 PM

This is a good way to word it. It's never ok for a class to deal unhealable damage (warriors do, on anything less than plate), even if they're easy to control. If warriors had NO distance closers, no spell reflect, and couldn't use pvp trinkets, their damage would STILL not be ok. Obviously they wouldn't be overpowered if all that were true, but the fact is that unhealable damage is simply never OK, especially when it's damage like a warrior's, that has very little to do with cooldowns (just MS/OP/execute/rend can be unheable on leather/cloth depending on crits, and usually is).

Edit: I define unhealable damage as a player being on a target, just damaging it, from 100%, while that target is being healed by a 3rd player. If the target being healed steadily loses hp and dies, that damage is unhealable. Warriors do that to cloth and leather.


Why is it not ok to deal unhealable damage? Should people live forever? Or are you suggesting that getting a kill should depend more on finesse and CC'ing a healer rather than brute force?

I think Blizzard has stated and fairly clearly demonstrated (by giving more classes MS) that they are not ok with unhealable damage.

As someone who also plays a priest I would definitely agree going up against a warrior is bloody brutal. But it does seem to make sense to me that if a big brutal class like I think a warrior is designed to feel and be like goes beating on you for a period of time you're going to die.

One way to reduce the annoying interrupts from charge/intercept would be to alter the 4pc bonus on pvp gear to do something other than reduce the CD on intercept by 5s.
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#164 Dodo

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:41 PM

I hope you guys realize damage has nothing to do with how successful a class is in arenas.

Seriously - any given class brings a set of tools to arenas. Raw damage alone means very little. So who cares.


If you are doing more damage than the other classes despite being CCed like hell and having no tools to CC others, then this is clearly an advantage.

Raw damage alone means A LOT if you are teamed up with others that CC for you....like...a druid and a DK, for example. Voila. Cleave ;)
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#165 Draekin

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:46 PM

Why is it not ok to deal unhealable damage? Should people live forever? Or are you suggesting that getting a kill should depend more on finesse and CC'ing a healer rather than brute force?

I think Blizzard has stated and fairly clearly demonstrated (by giving more classes MS) that they are not ok with unhealable damage.

As someone who also plays a priest I would definitely agree going up against a warrior is bloody brutal. But it does seem to make sense to me that if a big brutal class like I think a warrior is designed to feel and be like goes beating on you for a period of time you're going to die.

One way to reduce the annoying interrupts from charge/intercept would be to alter the 4pc bonus on pvp gear to do something other than reduce the CD on intercept by 5s.


The problem is that when you combine that "unhealable" warrior damage (alone, I can understand your point) with other players, it becomes WOTLK and you get healers dying within a single stun. Competitive PvP doesn't occur 1v1--and 1v1 I can see where warriors need the extra damage, because they lack CC. But now throw them in with a Ret Paladin or a DK or an Enhance Shaman, you have even more damage combined with utility like freedom, hammer of justice, strangulate, mind freeze, death grip, wind shear, earthbind totem--and you have an overpowered mechanic that takes little more than "attack the healer" as a strategy to win...and win often.

Maybe you don't agree, but landing a kill on a healer should be about CC and coordination (warriors included)...not just attacking someone who will within seconds due to unhealable damage. If you want to simply attack something, go fight raid bosses in PvE...you don't have to think too hard about that.

EDIT: Just so you really understand my point, MS is -50% healing. There is no such mechanic for a healer to place a -50% damage debuff on a dps class. The job of a healer is to be able to survive, and currently they have worse survivability under pressure than many dps classes that have good defensive cooldowns (mage, rogue, dk). Being a healer in PvP has never been so frustrating, and I personally don't feel it justified that two dps sitting on a healer with no CC should be able to kill him without oom'ing him.
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Seems like dos equis mis-casted the most interesting man in the world after encountering this fine specimen known as 'Draekin'

Draekin is like the best thing that ever happened to this forum

I like this Draeken dude a lot.


#166 Leikoz

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:51 PM

Yeah... I'm not going to read this giant thread of QQ.... warriors below 2k Look like Giant Noob machines that hit bladestorm and win(most likely because you're a sub 2k player too and let him) Warriors above 2k are far easier to control(because, Thats right! you're not a terrible player), and although they pump out some insane dmg(which, imo, could use a bit of rebalancing at best but nothing serious) they are actually not a huge problem in arenas.


I guess considering where this post is, I shouldn't be very surprised should i?
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#167 xxcruizexx

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:55 PM

you wanna talk about warriors been overpower'd. look at the 5's rankings, the top 22 teams have a shaman, pally and priest. the 3 most op'd classes in the game. and only 4 of the top 100 don't have a shamman. theres more shamman's then warrior in 3's top 100 too.
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#168 Serinus

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 05:10 PM

but landing a kill on a healer should be about CC and coordination (warriors included)


Then they're going to have to give warriors sap, kidney shot, and blind.

Where is all this "extreme damage" you people are talking about? The only "extreme damage" i've seen is from warlocks, shamans, ret or prot pallies, DKs, or hunters.
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#169 aceofblades

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:26 PM

its not the massive damage that kills them its more that if not peeled for extended periods -50% healing + -50% = trying to heal with 25% healz means you get owned. its not that our damage is op its our healing control mechanics, which leades you to wonder if hey . . . i think i got it guy warriors are designed to kill healers omg wow has kept to one of there laws guys just ask for a peel its not hard to control a warrior if u havea good skill cap. i controlled an 80 warr on my 74 mage last night for 15 minutes before he fled. just understand how the class works and get a partner who can peel.
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#170 io610

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:54 PM

No shit, but you were with your mage.

Try something like that on a lock, on a priest, or on anything that is not a dk or a mage.
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#171 aceofblades

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:05 AM

No shit, but you were with your mage.

Try something like that on a lock, on a priest, or on anything that is not a dk or a mage.


haha exactly what i was waiting for, so what ur saying is, warr counters other classes and is countered by others. winnah. classes have counters n warrs counter healers so gg. we need a lil nerf but were gear dependant so chill out we are the class we have always been. its the mechanics of a mortal strike warrior which blizz said is designed to and always will have mortal strike. we prevent healing get over it
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#172 Dimmesdale

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:13 AM

No shit, but you were with your mage.

Try something like that on a lock, on a priest, or on anything that is not a dk or a mage.


80 priest with reflective shield =shield, dot, dot, shield. and in 2's its not unhealable. you're an idiot if you let them overpower you while you're mid cast. Just because they don't have a pummel doesn't mean you can't use facecasting to deal with only a 50% healing debuff.

sure what do I know, only 1800 as Desto/Disc where we commonly face Warrior/Druid. Most times we beat them no matter how good the warrior is. I'm including the ones that are good with spell reflect/shield bash in to that.

I also have a warrior who is in T8/T9 and some pvp gear, utilizing a lotrafen and it takes a bit for me to work a kill, even with slightly better gear i don't see how it makes warriors too good.

The only times where its uncontrollable is when a DK uses Mind Freeze or Silence along with their stun. But thats the idea, Unholy DK is one of the best constant damage classes where warriors work well with because of their burst and the MS debuff. If not for the silence/mind freeze warriors wouldn't be overpowering at all.

This comes to question why DK's have a 10 second CD Mind Freeze and a Silence, even if it is on a 2 minute CD, it only needs to be used once to make faceroll happen.
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#173 Kansaskid

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:24 PM

Buff DK damage; Don't nerf Warriors


DK damage is just fine... if your having problems finding that out its not the classes fault...its yours
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#174 Draekin

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 12:48 PM

haha exactly what i was waiting for, so what ur saying is, warr counters other classes and is countered by others. winnah. classes have counters n warrs counter healers so gg. we need a lil nerf but were gear dependant so chill out we are the class we have always been. its the mechanics of a mortal strike warrior which blizz said is designed to and always will have mortal strike. we prevent healing get over it


you must have totally missed my post. go back a page and read it.

warriors are not OP alone. they are OP when combined with insane mechanics like hand of freedom and spam dispelling. sure, you can control a warrior....but not when he has his paladin or priest or whatever ensuring that he has 100% uptime on his target.
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Seems like dos equis mis-casted the most interesting man in the world after encountering this fine specimen known as 'Draekin'

Draekin is like the best thing that ever happened to this forum

I like this Draeken dude a lot.


#175 Liminal

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 01:38 PM

DK damage is just fine... if your having problems finding that out its not the classes fault...its yours


I would say its fine if I didn't play with one too. Too much AoE damage, not enough single target for a class with no MS.

When you consider the -50% healing MS on Warriors, you can essentially double their damage to get their real number of Healing Required to Heal through their damage. If you look at it that way, DK damage is pretty bad.

But like I said, I would say DK damage was okay if I didn't play one or play with one too.
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