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[Warrior] Out of control?


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#1 Kelarm

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 04:28 AM

Consider what warriors have become in this expansion.

In season 4, warriors were powerhouses. They dealt high damage and had high mobility and uptime. The disadvantage was that they were easily controlled and often easily killed (like by shadowplay, I remember exploding warriors like they were nothing).

In season 5, they were terrible, with DKs and paladins running rampant. They couldn't deal enough damage to the mass DKs and paladins, and a mediocre DK could make a warrior useless.

It's turned around in a big way since then. Blizzard seemed to have forgotten that warriors scale extremely well with gear (probably more than any other class), and massively buffed them anyway. Enter arms s6. Unpeelable, massive damage. Bladestorm. Compound that with arp stacking, now warriors deal a lot of damage to all classes.

So what is the result?

It occurs to me that the weaknesses of warriors have been mitigated or removed, and the strengths have been amplified. As opposed to a class like rogue (usually considered about as overpowered or slightly more so than warriors in BC), who pretty much got more damage but completely lost mobility and became easier kill targets. Warriors, on the other hand, kept their high damage and probably deal more damage (comparatively) now than in BC. With the seemingly infinite distance closers and bladestorm, they've become much harder to control. Between shield wall, retaliation against melee, and spell reflect/charge "stunlocks" (anything but a frost mage)/shield bash (long lockout) against casters, they can make themselves a pretty poor target these days too. Not to mention that warriors now have, in my experience, the highest hp pools of any class in PvP. Mages are walking around with ~21k to a warrior's 31k.

I'm not class-bashing at all, just wondering if anyone else thinks that warriors are out of control with damage and scaling and it'll get even worse this season with more gear and uber 2 handers?
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#2 io610

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:10 AM

Unless you work for blizzard I think you should just:

1. sit down
2. relax
3. play aion
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#3 Anajib

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 05:29 AM

um do u have any idea of what you are saying you say warriors are fucking hard to control? we only have bladestorm for every 6 secs and yes I agree it does massive dmg but we are like a fucking pally we get cced to easly when spell reflect on CD.
warriors are being balenced for the first time ever in this new expainstion.
since warriors can do 4kdmg in 1 gobal cooldown thats op but casters doing fucking 10k dmg in 1 global cool down isnt? and warriors get blown off right off that bat in 3s and 5s
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#4 Ecodus

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:22 AM

I'm not class-bashing at all, just wondering if anyone else thinks that warriors are out of control with damage and scaling and it'll get even worse this season with more gear and uber 2 handers?


People don't read your whole post and like to get really mad, I don't know if they are out of control... but I think they are in a good place right now... and a pain in the ass
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LF Ranged dps, pref Rogue

#5 hugmepls

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 07:35 AM

Apart from overpower stacking with ms to 75% healdebuff, warriors are fine imo :)
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#6 Canas!

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 08:21 AM

Warriors are probably the most overpowered class in the game at the moment.
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3.2 Warriors are worst class in the game for 3v3.


#7 Spellshaper

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:52 AM

Ah warriors..
The problem Blizzard seems to have with warrior scaling is mainly rage generation. Since rage gain scales with gear, undergeared warriors have a relatively hard time getting enough rage for anything (unless focused), and overgeared warriors find they can do whatever they want, when they want it.
Sadly, Blizzard keeps it that way for flavor reasons - since normalized rage generation would be too similar to rogue energy, at least that's what they say.


since warriors can do 4kdmg in 1 gobal cooldown thats op but casters doing fucking 10k dmg in 1 global cool down isnt? and warriors get blown off right off that bat in 3s and 5s

You don't seem to understand that casters can only cast instants while on the move, whereas melee classes ONLY rely on instant cast abilities. Add to that that casters can be interrupted, it makes sense that caster classes should be able to burst better than melees.
We just have less time at our disposal for actually dpsing when being chased by frothing charging spamstring-warriors and sneaky rogues. ;)
Though I agree destro burst needs adjusting, elemental maybe too.
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#8 hugmepls

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 10:59 AM

warriors can be peeled too, you know?

and stating that caster burst is stopable by interrupting is true but there are moments when you cant stop them from casting (ie. auramastery in wizardcleave) and they just blow you up.
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#9 Amiza

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:04 PM

if warriors are so overpowered and unstopable then why was there only like 1 used in the entire mlg tournment which lost all its games i believe. I know my opinion is proberly biased as i play a warrior but i think warriors seem fine at the moment.
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#10 Draekin

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 12:48 PM

I think the issue is that MS has become too powerful in the hands of a warrior (and arguably in all situations) at this point. With burst being so high (yes, burst healing is high too), a single CC on a healer combined with MS on the target is enough to put that healer in a position that he may never be able to recover.

The long "uptime" of warriors, and their great mobility has ensured that MS is "on" pretty much 100% of the time.

My solution?
Make MS a no-damage ability (thus meaning you're not doing crazy damage AND debuffing healing simultaneously) and put it on a 20 second cooldown. Thus you can only have it up 50% of the time. I think the same thing should be done for wound poisons and aimed shot debuff as well.

This would do two positive things: (A) classes with this debuff would now have to apply it intelligently in coordination in order to land kills easier...increasing the skill cap of these classes and (B) it would make games with abilities such as lolbladestorm less "faceroll" and more strategic.
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Seems like dos equis mis-casted the most interesting man in the world after encountering this fine specimen known as 'Draekin'

Draekin is like the best thing that ever happened to this forum

I like this Draeken dude a lot.


#11 VonLego

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:41 PM

Did the tourney not use s5/naxx gear? Warriors are poor choices with poor gear, great choices with great gear.
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#12 Daisyduke

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:42 PM

if warriors are so overpowered and unstopable then why was there only like 1 used in the entire mlg tournment which lost all its games i believe. I know my opinion is proberly biased as i play a warrior but i think warriors seem fine at the moment.


Because MLG is played with season5 gear with teams that haven't run warrior in a long time (MLG is invitational btw.)

The main argument here is that Warriors scale to good and therefore are quite strong at the moment.
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Alec

#13 knucklz

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 01:43 PM

bring back chess
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#14 Assrock

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:10 PM

hunter > warrior

:D

!
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#15 Dreadplate

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:13 PM

Warriors hit harder than death knights, and yet have a mortal strike healing debuff, its fair and balanced.
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#16 Pronomore

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:14 PM

If warriors ms did no damage, and was on a 20 second cooldown, we'd be worse then we were in s5
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#17 Lightkun

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:19 PM

Because MLG is played with season5 gear with teams that haven't run warrior in a long time (MLG is invitational btw.)

The main argument here is that Warriors scale to good and therefore are quite strong at the moment.


It's not really the class thats the problem, apart from UA which is ridiculous, the only thing making warriors overpowered is ArP and ArP trinkets.
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgement that something else is more important than fear."

this game would be far better if either;

A. Casters could cast while moving or
B. Melee couldnt hit while moving

- Masque, EU Hellscream http://forums.wow-eu...266716&sid=1#12

#18 Liminal

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:22 PM

Warriors hit harder than death knights, and yet have a mortal strike healing debuff, its fair and balanced.


Buff DK damage; Don't nerf Warriors
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#19 Draekin

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:26 PM

If warriors ms did no damage, and was on a 20 second cooldown, we'd be worse then we were in s5


I disagree. You have better survivability, great mobility and the rest of your damage is still very good without applying MS debuff with 100% uptime. Obviously damage would need to be slightly higher in other areas to compensate for the loss of damage on the Mortal Strike ability itself...

...but I can't fathom why it would be a BAD change to do what I said. And remember, you'd have to do a similar thing to rogues/hunters as well to make it balanced.

I already believe that rogue poisons on weapons should have an internal cooldown, similar to what they did to windfury weapon, and that fan of knives should NOT apply poisons. Maybe only 2-3 seconds, but they should still have an internal cooldown. Also, bring back the days where hunter MS needed to be "casted" to be applied...that would nerf aimed shot a bit.
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Seems like dos equis mis-casted the most interesting man in the world after encountering this fine specimen known as 'Draekin'

Draekin is like the best thing that ever happened to this forum

I like this Draeken dude a lot.


#20 Liminal

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 02:54 PM

Warriors are fine, you want to curb their damage? Apply some pressure


Stupid ideas to fix something that isn't broken



Start fixing classes that dominate arena representation
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